Ep. 111/ Public Speaking Mastery with Nausheen Chen: Build Confidence and Sharpen Your Skills
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3-time TEDx speaker and a Fortune-50 public speaking coach Nausheen Chen shares actionable tips on how to be a better public speaker and dispels common misconceptions, emphasizing that public speaking extends beyond formal podium presentations and is crucial in everyday interactions like team meetings and client pitches. The conversation highlights the importance of consistent practice in developing communication skills, inner and performative confidence, getting rid of filler words and overcoming stage fright. Nausheen also shares her unique journey from a radio show host to a filmmaker and her eventual foray into public speaking coaching. Because Kim teaches confidence on camera, Kim and Nausheen together offer practical tips, such as practicing presentations aloud and using technological tools to refine speech, underscoring the transformative power of effective communication for personal and professional success.
In this episode you will learn:
Overcoming crippling stage fright through positive self-talk. - 15:49
How to enunciate, engage, adapt, and read the room. - 25:35
How to build confidence to leverage video and seeking validation. - 44:06
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In the latest episode of The Exit Interview, Kim Rittberg is joined by public speaking coach Nausheen Chen for an engaging conversation about the nuances and significance of effective communication in everyday life. This episode delves deep into the transformative power of public speaking beyond formal podiums, extending its importance to team meetings, client pitches, and even podcasts.
One of the main themes Nausheen emphasizes is the misconception that public speaking is confined to grand speeches and formal settings. In reality, public speaking is everywhere – from daily team meetings to casual conversations with clients. Both Kim and Nausheen underline the need for continuous practice of communication skills, much like maintaining one's health to prevent illness. Effective communication isn't just a skill for the stage; it's a daily necessity that builds inner confidence and presence.
Nausheen's journey from a radio show host to a filmmaker and finally to a public speaking coach is a testament to the power of pivoting and finding one's true passion. She shares how writing on LinkedIn about public speaking led to significant recognition and speaking engagements, underscoring the importance of building a digital footprint. Nausheen’s story is a powerful reminder that developing a personal brand and embracing visibility can have a profound impact on one’s career.
In this episode you will learn:
Overcoming crippling stage fright through positive self-talk. - 15:49
How to enunciate, engage, adapt, and read the room. - 25:35
How to build confidence to leverage video and seeking validation. - 44:06
Quotes from our guest:
"Public speaking isn’t just about standing behind a podium. It’s about how we communicate in team meetings, client pitches, and even on podcasts." - 2:57
"Read the room and adapt to the energy. Engage your audience, refresh the energy if needed, and intentionally balance between script and improvisation." - 25:35
"Get out of autopilot and be intentional about your speaking. Reducing filler words starts with being conscious of their usage." - 28:11
GETTING RID OF SAYING FILLER WORDS LIKE ‘LIKE’ & ‘UM’ “First you must become aware every single time you're using a filler word, this could just be a mental note that you make, and you'll notice that it's not possible for you to just turn it off like a switch… You're going to pause instead of using a filler word, so your speech might not be as fluid. A lot of people give up at that stage, but if you give up there, you're not creating this new habit because what we're doing is breaking down the way you were speaking earlier and creating a new way for your brain to speak. Of course, that's going to take time, but absolutely possible.”
About Nausheen: Nausheen I. Chen is a 3-time TEDx speaker and a Fortune-50 public speaking coach. She helps transform C-suite and entrepreneurs into thought leaders on stage and camera by coaching them to present their ideas with confidence, clarity and impact.
Nausheen has coached the C-suite at fast-growth startups as well as senior leaders at companies like Amazon, Google, IBM, AT&T, SAP, ServiceNow, Timberland and others. Her clients have successfully presented at and closed multi-million dollar funding rounds, spoken on global platforms like TEDx, the BBC, TechCrunch, Bloomberg and in thousands of boardrooms.
She has been featured on Vimeo, TEDx and LinkedIn News and is an official course instructor for LinkedIn for Public Speaking skills.
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NAUSHEEN’S LINKS:
Kim (00:02):
If you are looking to be better at public speaking or even not so public speaking, you are going to really love hearing from Nausheen Chen. We talk about how to get rid of filler words like an how to both seem more confident when you're speaking, but also actually get more confident. We talk about the difference between large public speaking when you're on a stage, which lots of us don't get to do and smaller public speaking, that you still need to be impactful during work meetings or other small sessions. So, so much great advice coming in from machine.
Kim (00:38):
Welcome to the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards, an in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimrittberg.com.
Kim (01:39):
Nausheen Chen is a three-time TEDx speaker and a Fortune 50 public speaking coach. She helps transform c-suite and entrepreneurs into thought leaders on stage and camera by coaching them to present their ideas with confidence, clarity, and impact. Nausheen has coached the C-suite of fast growth startups as well as senior leaders at companies like Amazon, Google, IBM at t, sap, SAP. I never know how to say that. ServiceNow, Timberland and others, her clients have successfully presented at and closed multimillion dollar funding rounds, spoken on global platforms like TEDx, the BBC, TechCrunch, Bloomberg, and in thousands of boardrooms. She has also been featured on Vimeo, TEDx and LinkedIn News and is an official course instructor for LinkedIn for public speaking skills. I'm really excited to have you here.
Nausheen (02:24):
Thank you so much, Kim, for having me. I was so excited this entire week because we were going to have this conversation, so thank you for having me.
Kim (02:31):
I of course, am a huge proponent of public speaking, of improving yourself of all the things that you focus on, so that's why I was super excited to have you on and there's really a lot of facets of both you as a person and your area of expertise that I was really excited to unleash. I want to dive right into the public speaking and then I want to back up because I know you've had several pivots. I'd love to just start out with what is the biggest thing you see people doing wrong when they're public speaking?
Nausheen (02:57):
First, it's creating this definition of public speaking that's super narrow because very often the term public speaking has these connotations of standing behind a podium, presenting to this stuffy room full of people who would rather be anywhere else but there and reading out slides and the whole experience being kind of weird and awkward and not fun at all. So that's really the first mistake I see people making where they don't think of doing a podcast as public speaking or speaking to their team as public speaking, speaking to their investors, their board, or even pitching to a client where you're presenting a sales presentation to a group of people. All of that is public speaking. So we actually do a lot more public speaking than we think we do. And why that's a mistake is because if you think of public speaking as this skill that you only need once in two years, if you're ever behind a podium, then you're not going to be working on showing up as an effective communicator in all of these other ways that we're showing up every single day.
Kim (04:04):
I love that idea. I recently actually did a workshop for a company and what we did, it was like small setting, public speaking because 90% of your life is going to be that maybe 99%. It's so rare that you actually have the chance to be on a big stage, which is fine depending on your industry. Totally fine, and you can have a very great successful career even without ever public speaking, but you're actually private public speaking all the time.
Nausheen (04:31):
Yeah, absolutely. Anytime that you're speaking to more than two people, it is speaking to an audience and now the idea of speaking on camera is alien for a lot of people. I'm sure that you work with a lot of people for whom it doesn't come naturally, but the truth is there's no such thing as being a natural when you speak on camera, everyone's awkward at the beginning. You and I have just had more reps than other people, so we're now very comfortable. It doesn't seem like a day that's out of the ordinary when we have to be on camera, but just that notion of it being so alien and so different from what you do in regular everyday life is intimidating. So a lot of people just never end up building their brands or creating that video being on camera.
Kim (05:17):
And what would you say in terms of, I agree so much about the need for repetition, what would you say for people who are trying to speak with more impact, get better, what would you say? How often do they have to practice?
Nausheen (05:29):
It entirely depends on what your goal is. So if the goal is to become a better communicator overall, then you're going to have to be very disciplined and create practice sessions for yourself. So you can't just wait for that next presentation because what happens is inevitably by the time you need to do that next presentation, it's too late to actually work on any long-term skills. Yes, you can work on the slide deck, you can make it as beautiful as possible and you can work on that particular presentation to deliver it very well, but you may not be working on your overall communication skills. How do you show up with energy? How do you use great body language? How do you internalize playing and experimenting with your voice so that your audience stays engaged? So the idea is that no amount of practice would ever go to waste, and if you want to commit to being a strong communicator, then creating opportunities for yourself to practice, whether it's just taking your phone and recording yourself speaking for a minute on something that you can very easily speak on or seeking out storytelling events, open mic events in your neighborhood, going for career talks at your old school or doing a small workshop or training for your own team.
(06:45):
Those are opportunities that you can create and that's what's going to help you become better as a public speaker.
Kim (06:51):
I love that. I think it's metaphor or the similar metaphor would be like we go to the hospital when we're sick, but you have to go see the doctor and stay healthy before. So if someone comes to you and they're like, I have a presentation next week, you can make that presentation go better, but they're going to be much better down the road. I love that. Talk to me about the actual physical. I know you're a big part of what you said, you believe in the importance of building up your inner confidence versus just your performative confidence. How do you help people work on their inner confidence so that when they're speaking in small or large settings, they have that performative confidence?
Nausheen (07:29):
First of all, I love that you're making that distinction between inner confidence and performative confidence because very often people just think of the performative piece of it and that has its pros and cons. First of all, it's absolutely great and essential to be aware of what performative confidence means. It essentially means what are the signals you're putting out into the world that show that you're confident without saying, I'm confident, open body language, the way that you enunciate and articulate every word, getting rid of filler words, like making sure that you're not fidgeting, using smooth gestures. All of those things create this image of us as being confident and relaxed and in control. All of that is performative. Like you indicated. Very often I see people doing one or the other where they might have some degree of inner confidence in their work so they don't feel unqualified to speak, but then when they do speak, they don't really understand how to perform that confidence, how to be at ease, how to relax and speak in a way that engages people.
(08:43):
Or then you have folks like me who understand how to perform confidence, but for the longest time I didn't have that inner confidence, so I felt like an imposter. I would go on stage and I would be praised for being so confident and bold and that afterwards I would feel awful inside I would feel like I was crumbling. So to answer your question, it's essential to work on both. How do you perform that confidence so that people see you as a confident person? And then how do you make sure that you are also confident on the inside? Things like stage fright, that's one way of dealing with that inner confidence to make sure that you're not going on stage with your heart beating uncontrollably fast and stumbling over your words, sweating, feeling awkward, just wanting to get it over with, making sure that you don't feel like an imposter on the stage so that you're not feeling like you can't do that next speaking opportunity if you're feeling that dread when a new opportunity is coming up. That's that inner confidence speaking or the lack of it. So yeah, absolutely essential to work on both parts of it and it's learning how to speak with confidence. So performing that confidence is slightly easier. Learning how to perform versus tackling that inner confidence piece, which can take months or years.
Kim (10:06):
And you had just mentioned stage fright. I'd love to hear from you, and I've had this, and by the way, I think it's interesting as we were talking about this, I have realized I'm one of those people I interviewed and trained hundreds, maybe thousands of people to be on camera for tv. I also went on tv, but I had all the same nerves and also literally performative public speaking practice that I needed. So even though I had all of the knowledge, all of the information, you still have to be your own athlete or be your own Guinea pig. I still had to do the things that I coach somebody. All those things that you can't just read a book about it, you have to do it. So I think interesting what you were saying about kind of growing into your own. And then the other point about that performative confidence, I totally feel that when I started my own business and when I started to put out my own podcast, I know how make a podcast.
(10:57):
I've made podcasts for huge media companies. I've made video for huge media companies, but there's that little bit, there's something in our brain that we have to peel back the layers and say, what is it that has left this on my to-do list at number 44 for two years? Do I want it? Do I not believe I can have it? And I think that that's some of those things that I see with a lot of my clients that I work with. It's there's something in our head that we're not articulating that's the reason why we're not showing up, whether it's in small group settings or whether it's on video. But I do agree with that inner confidence in doing that work to say, what is it that I want? Do I want it bad enough to keep going for it? And then one of the things that was interesting that you had just mentioned that I'd love your take on is stage fright.
(11:42):
So I don't know if I even believe in stage fright because I think that being on a stage is something, it's a muscle that we can all grow. My daughter was terrified of being in front of. People hated when anyone looked at her. Her school has a lot of opportunities to stand up in the room and speak to your 20 classmates and teachers, and even she is fine now. She doesn't love it, but she's not terrified of it. But I have found when I did my first keynote and I told my kids this, I love to let them know that mommy's also scared. I felt right before I went on the stage I was going to throw up and I really could hear and feel my heart beating at a totally crazy rate, and I felt like, oh my God, I can't do this. And then I was like, they're calling your name. You're going to do this. And then I said to myself, you're doing it. It's fun. You're doing it because it's fun. And I'm like, yes, and obviously I'd already prepared so much, but to those people who feel like stage fright is really crippling them and they can't get up on stage or even they're about to get up on stage and they need to manage their body, what do you recommend for people to tamp down that stage fright?
Nausheen (12:48):
So I love that you brought up that you yourself felt nervous despite being an experienced speaker. The first time that I did a TEDx talk, for example, of course I was nervous. I found it hard to sleep the night before. I was constantly obsessed with going over the talk over and over and over in my head. So every single speaker feels nervous. It's what you do with the nerves that differentiates a top 1% speaker from the rest. So giving into the nerves not knowing how to control them or having this weird assumption that you can't control the nerves, I'm always going to feel nervous. All of those things stand in the way. There are a lot of things that you can do to first address the root cause of the nerves. So figuring out is it fear of judgment that is intimidating me? Is it the fear of people disagreeing with me, calling me out?
(13:41):
Is it the imposter syndrome? Is it past trauma? Have I had experiences before where I haven't been satisfied with my performance and now that's affecting how I say yes or no to future speaking opportunities? So getting to the root cause and then putting in place some very actionable things like warming up before you go on stage. I remember Kim, one of your videos I believe was talking about how you like singing and dancing before you go on stage, and that brings such great energy. There are a lot of things that people can do to calm themselves down, breathing exercises, just focusing on enunciating tongue twisters. The double prep is of a helping you articulate better, but also taking you out of that obsession of, oh my God, I need to go on stage. What's going to happen? So taking these strategies into account and creating a routine for yourself so that right before you need to go on stage or on camera, you're feeling it, you're feeling relaxed, you are in the zone, you're going to go out there and you're going to conquer this feeling that you have these nerves.
(14:50):
But that said, I want to say that there are people that have extreme cases of stage fright where all the things I'm talking about might sound like they're too simple, easier said than done because I have worked with people who are at all stages of the stage fright spectrum. There are folks like you who rarely ever feel those kinds of nerves on that level. Sure, you don't feel those nerves when you're recording a podcast, for example, right? This is a Wednesday, right? So a lot of people feel that level of stage fright before switching on their camera, before turning on their webcam regardless of what it's for. So there is a spectrum. There are different stages. So if you find yourself at that stage where yes, you feel nervous, but then you can talk to yourself and show yourself how it's not about you, it's about the audience.
(15:42):
It's about showing up and helping someone. It's about how you're going to talk about things that you know about. You're not going to go out there and talk about something that you have no idea about. All those things help. They create this positive self-talk and of course doing warmups and exercises, all those things help for anyone who feels that level of nerves. But if you're on the other end of the spectrum where it's crippling, where you might have walked on a stage at some point in the past and run off because you couldn't go through with it where you've done a podcast and three days later told the host, could you please not publish that? I really don't want that out in the world where you keep recording videos to put up on social media and nothing is good enough because you feel awful looking at yourself.
(16:30):
That is crippling stage fright. And for that, I would still say that for sure there's a way out. So all the stories I just told you about someone running off the stage or telling the podcast hosts not to publish their podcast, those are actual stories from my ex clients who then worked with me and then we worked for at least two to three months just on getting them out of their heads, just on getting them out of this extreme stage fright that stops them from taking action. So there is light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel itself might be longer for some folks versus others.
Kim (17:04):
One thing I love and I didn't want to tell the audience we're going to get to machine's personal story. I find it very interesting, but I am someone, I also did improv comedy, not as seriously as you did, but I do find that a lot of exercises from improv comedy help people get out of their heads. However, I do also think there's something like someone like you and someone like I who would even think to do improv comedy. It's also acknowledging that this is a mindset and an appreciation and an enjoyment of something that other people truly don't have. So I think it is interesting, like you were saying, it's really good to do those exercises like tongue twisters because they're kind of fun and improv games are kind of fun, but it really does take a while of that practice to even get to the point where you're like, we're going to have fun doing this.
(17:52):
It's like I think about the episode of the Office where they're all forced to do improv games. Most people hate that. Most people hate a workshop, a corporate workshop being locked in a room and told to make jokes with your very serious colleagues. Anyway, I do think it's helpful what you were saying about it takes a longer time. So I had a question about, you had mentioned earlier filler words. I would love any advice from you for the audience. How would you recommend people start to get rid of the filler words, the likes, the ums. So
Nausheen (18:25):
The first question is, are filler words even a problem for people like you and me? It's a no-brainer, but for anyone listening who might not be convinced, who might say, well, once in a while, an oh an and is fine. In fact, we don't want people to be robotic or perfect when they speak because we trust someone who's imperfect. So I agree, we're not looking at completely eliminating filler words. An oh once in a while is absolutely fine. It shows that you're thinking where filler words become a problem is when you're peppering your talk with filler words, when you're using them as crutch words, when every second sentence has a or a right or does that make sense? Those words, whether they're nonsensical sounds like oh, or whether they're go-to catchphrases, right? They all undermine your authority. If there's too much of them, they become distracting.
(19:23):
You come across as an absent-minded person. So there is merit in looking at whether or not you're overusing filler words. And I've had clients who have been completely unaware of the filler words they're using. I've had clients addicted to, and it's only when I show them their recordings and I use AI to show them how many unos they used, they're so surprised. It just escapes their mouth without them being aware. So that's the key to that second part of the question, what do we do about it? Become intentional and aware. In fact, all the work that I do with clients is about taking them out of autopilot speaking, just speaking the way that you've taught yourself to speak for decades and becoming more intentional with the way that they speak. So part of that is for sure looking at your filler words and pausing instead of letting a filler word escape.
(20:16):
It's also easier said than done. This strategy takes anywhere from a few days to a few weeks to implement, but the idea is number one, for you first to become aware every single time you're using a filler word, this could just be a mental note that you make, and you'll notice that it's not possible for you to just turn it off like a switch. You're going to have the words escaping your mouth quite a few times, and your mental note is going to be, why did I say that? Damnit, what's wrong with me? Why did I say that? And then you will say it less. You will gain control over the way that you speak because you're practicing intentional speaking, but the road to getting there can be a bit rocky. There's going to be weeks or days of awkward speeches because you're going to pause instead of using a filler word, so your speech might not be as fluid. A lot of people give up at that stage, but if you give up there, you're not creating this new habit because what we're doing is breaking down the way you were speaking earlier and creating a new way for your brain to speak. Of course, that's going to take time, but absolutely possible.
Kim (21:21):
It's funny. One thing I noticed, so I used to interview people, especially for red carpets, but in general for news segments. So I would have to ask people questions, and sometimes I'd have to ask them things that were slightly uncomfortable, and I found I was using filler words to soften my question. It didn't matter in that instance because in that situation, the output, which is their soundbite on our TV show, was all that mattered. But over time, I realized I'm using the word or I'm sort of shifting my voice into a higher pitch. I'm trying to soften my question, but over time I realize I have to figure out some other way to do that, and I actually find that I sometimes comes into play more, and it depends who I'm speaking with. And so to your point of it being intentional, that's something I have to be intentional about.
(22:07):
And I think we are all working on things, and I'm always very open with my clients. I'm like, I'm from New York. I speak fast, and I even had clients say, Kim, I think your brain actually works faster. And that's not necessarily meaning I'm so smart, but I think my brain, my computer has a higher processing ram almost than other people. It's fine, but I have to slow down a little bit because I work with people from all over the country, not just fast speaking New Yorkers. And also speaking really fast is one of, to your point earlier, it's actually an unintentional tell that I think people aren't going to listen to me and I have to get all of my words in quickly, which is for sure from being the youngest of three children, and I did have to get my words in quickly. Nobody would listen to me.
(22:53):
But I've realized that as an adult, as a speaker, as a professional, that A, people will listen to me, but b, I will be able to more effectively communicate my information, my lessons, my jokes if I pause and I slow it down. So all to say yes, and to all the things you were saying, I do think it is really important for all of us to be aware, and I know so many people really hate watching themselves back, but I'm like you. It's very important because it's really hard to get better at something if you're not watching what you're doing wrong and right. That's the other thing. It's like we're only focused on what we did wrong, but the truth is you're probably doing so many things by even investing yourself in trying. My other question I wanted to ask you small group settings. We talked earlier so much of how we communicate in those small group that obviously does require a different performative aspect.
(23:49):
I realized when I was a manager, I led a 17 person team at US Weekly. I was an executive. I really didn't use my public speaking skills in those moments because the rooms were awkward. So we would have interdepartmental pitch meetings and just meeting and it was kind of low energy and kind of quiet, and I wasn't leading the meeting, and I think that I kind of read the room and was like, I'm not going to be here with a booming voice and tell jokes and make people laugh, but it did. Thinking back, now that I speak more, my question to you would be in those corporate settings, conference rooms, casual meetings where a lot of communication happens, how do we project confidence and have a better impact when we're speaking at times where it's really not about performing and maybe the energy is low? What do you recommend for those situations?
Nausheen (24:44):
I love that you brought up the nuances of being in a smaller space versus a bigger space, and I agree with you to a certain extent that all of the public speaking skills may not come into play in that smaller context, but there are good communication skills that are a subset of public speaking skills that come into play regardless of where we speak, how to use gestures, for example, you should be aware of how your gestures connect with how you're being perceived regardless of where you're speaking. Small group one-on-one or a big stage, open gestures show transparency and trust regardless of where we're speaking. Now, the magnitude of the gesture will of course differ. You're not going to make these huge larger than life gestures.
Kim (25:29):
We're waving our arms if we're like swimming, like a big swimming stroke in the ocean anyway. Yes,
Nausheen (25:35):
Yeah, you're not going to project your voice when you're in a smaller room, but you should still enunciate. You should still look out for fillers that are unnecessarily making what you're saying, more diluted and vague. People are getting lost. You should still understand how to use your voice to engage people. If you're a monotone and flat, you're going to lose people, whether you're talking to two or 20 or 200. So you're going to have those 17 or 20 people checking their email if you're not paying attention to how you speak at show up. So there are speaking skills overall that you will be working on if you work on showing up as a stronger public speaker and being adaptive to the room. That point that you brought up about reading the room is so important. That's what it all hinges on. That's really where I've seen the top 1% of communicators be so flexible and adaptive, but also they know when to push the boundaries because as a speaker, the moment you have the room, you have the room, you are the person in control, what you do with that control is up to you.
(26:45):
If you are, for example, in a company where you may not be that senior where you need to make sure that the status quo stays the same, you want to fit in rather than stand out, then of course doing what everyone else is doing, keeping the energy the same, that's always an option. Or if you feel that you have a little bit of control and flexibility, you can also change up the energy of the room. That's a perfectly fine thing to do when it's your turn to speak, you can change things up. You can decide to move. If no one's been moving, you can decide to stand if everyone's been sitting, or you can decide to sit if everyone is standing. The idea here is not to just draw attention to yourself for the sake of it, but to engage with the room in a more meaningful way. Very often when there's a string of presentations, one after the other project updates, for example, team meetings, people start tuning out. You get information fatigue. So if you can be the person who can come in and refresh the energy of the room, you are going to be noticed and remembered, and that's ultimately what you want.
Kim (27:50):
Awesome. One last question before we shift into your personal story. I know you're a big advocate of being intentional when we speak versus going on autopilot. How does that play into, if you are per se, a podcast guest versus public speaking, how do you recommend people be intentional to have impact when they're speaking?
Nausheen (28:11):
So there's intentionality when you have a script versus intentionality when you're speaking in a more improvised way. When you have a script or a doc, you have slides. Let's say you're doing a webinar, you're doing a presentation, then being intentional means for sure, taking out time to practice your delivery. You have the advantage of knowing exactly what you're going to say to this group of people. Most people don't realize that they work on their slides till the last possible moment, making it as beautiful as possible, and then they go into that room or they walk into that zoom meeting and they read off of the slides and they become message delivery people. Now, if the message is strong enough, people might still resonate, but you're taking so much away from your own credibility and reputation as a speaker if you're not practicing delivery. So intentionality in that case is knowing that you want to do the best with that opportunity and practicing ahead of time so that you can be intentional when you show up.
(29:12):
Improvised speaking, like the kind we're doing right now when you're on a podcast or perhaps in the q and a section of your presentation where you don't have a script. Intentionality is all about making sure that your thoughts are structured, that you're not rambling, that you're aware of how long you've been speaking for so that you're aware of how what you're saying is coming across. You're speaking in simple language. You're using what I call the magic trifecta of your voice, your energy and your body language to be engaging as a speaker, and then you're making sure that you're, again, reading the room and being flexible because that doesn't go anywhere. That's a great skill to have just as a person, as an entrepreneur, as a leader. So making sure that if your host looks like they have a follow-up question, then not speaking for too long, making sure you bring enough stories and examples so that your answers aren't vague and abstract. Making sure that you're reading the room correctly if you need to start wrapping up the response earlier or bring up something differently, all of that comes into play when you're speaking. Improvised,
Kim (30:18):
And I don't want to dwell on this for too long, why do you think people don't practice more with slides? I actually think I agree so much with that. Someone comes to me, they're like, I have this presentation. I say, great, when are you going to practice? At least twice before. And they're like, oh, well you already spent all this time putting all this amazing information. You made it look really pretty, but you're not going to sound good presenting it. Nobody would if you gave me a slide deck that I had never said out loud, our mouth is a muscle, so when are you going to practice it? Why do you think people don't practice it more? Is it that we don't know? Is it that there's fear? Why do you think people don't practice a webinar or presentation, anything like that?
Nausheen (30:56):
There is a lot of fear and there are a lot of hangups about it. You mentioned earlier about something being number 44 on your to-do list. That's what happens when people want to practice their presentations. Some of it is this conviction that they've created for themselves that I'm not going to do much better if I practice. Where that comes from could be that there are just so many bad presenters out there that we keep getting exposed to these average or below average presentations.
Kim (31:23):
Oh, I'll be better than Linda. I'll be better than John, so it's fine. It's no matter
Nausheen (31:28):
What, I'm going to be better than Linda and John, so no one's going to kill me for it. Kill. It's fine. So it's that conviction that you don't feel like you can do better because you just haven't seen someone do better. That could come into play. You're just not prioritizing delivery because you don't quite know how to practice. That could come into play. A lot of people just read over their slides and they think that's practicing, but that's not, that's you getting familiar with the slides. Practicing really means getting into the zone and presenting as if it was the real thing. Doing an actual dress rehearsal,
Kim (32:02):
I always bring my mom in. I'm like, mom, you're going to sit there and I'm going to do, I mean, I have videos of me, I mean, in my pajamas, in my full outfit with my heels. I literally do an entire presentation. Because you also don't realize sometimes you're saying something, you're like, that doesn't make any sense. Or I thought that was funny. Actually, no one's going to laugh at that. And then some of it is just you're going to stumble less the more you practice.
Nausheen (32:27):
Yeah, absolutely. I actually have all my clients start practicing rarely when we're about 70 to 80% of the way done with their presentations or their keynotes. We start practicing, especially that first reason that you pointed out. When you start saying things out loud, that's when you realize, oh, that doesn't sound too great. That's not how I talk. Wait, why am I going off on this tangent here? And when you're writing it, it doesn't occur to you till you're actually presenting it, performing it, speaking it out loud. So there's so many merits in practicing early and practicing with a strategy so that you know what you want to improve next time.
Kim (33:04):
One thing I always recommend to my video bootcamp students is really almost talking out your words. So as you're writing video scripts, I know this because I used to write, I started out writing for TV news, and then I ended up being a writer for an anchor, and I really had to own her voice, and sometimes I would write things and then she would say it out loud and we'd both say, strike that through. That doesn't sound right. Both, it wasn't her voice or she was tripping on it. And it's the same for us. We think that writing an article for a magazine or a website, I write for fast company, I write in a different way than I speak. I'm trying to have them come closer together because it's important to put personality in your written word. However, knowing that when we speak, we use a totally different cadence, tone, casualness, all of those things.
(33:47):
And so I recommend to some of my students, if you are having trouble writing out in a way that actually you speak it out, explain it to someone, use, we have so many amazing technological capabilities in addition to chat, GBT and ai, whatever, just talk it into your phone and have it transcribe it, see if that gets you closer, because that's something I really learned from being in TV and writing forward. The spoken word is it's totally different. Anyway, okay. I really need to get to your personal story. I find it very interesting. So talk to me about where did you grow up? Talk to me about, I know you have two different pivots. Talk to me about where you grew up, what you studied, what the beginning of your career was like.
Nausheen (34:25):
Sure. So that annoying kid who always gets up in front of the whole family and recites the most boring poem ever. I was that annoying kid. I'm very much like you. I believe. Always been in love with speaking, communicating, telling my story. I didn't always have a stage, but I found out very early enough that if I had a stage, people would listen. I would have my audience. So I never wanted to fight to get people's attention. I wanted to figure out what do you do with it once you have it? So I've been performing on stage, but also seeking out other forms of speaking in public most of my life. One of my first jobs was as a radio show host where I hosted these shows and I just had to make sure I was filling up the air. I went out then and I spoke on every stage I could find.
(35:19):
I would go to open mic nights, storytelling events, do workshops and trainings for people based on anything that I was learning at the time. So when I was a filmmaker, I would do filmmaking workshops and talks. I would throw networking events, mixers. I even did a David Bowie tribute and I hosted several indie film exhibitions. And along the way, I did everything else as my actual job and career. So my love for being on stage and being on camera was always on the back burner. I found time to do it for the sheer love of speaking on stage, but I never connected the dots. So started off at Proctor and Gamble in the Fortune 50 world. I was doing marketing and pr. Then I had a career pivot into filmmaking. I was a filmmaker for seven years, producing and directing these commercials for Chinese startups, creating commercials for the west.
(36:15):
And when I was about to turn 40, so about two years ago, that's when I had this realization that whatever it is I want to actually do with my life, I need to do it now. Yeah, right. Very much now or never. And filmmaking wasn't it? I had never really felt like a filmmaker, so I took time to reflect because seven years is a long time to be doing something that you don't really resonate with. And I realized the one thing that had kept me going was helping people show up on camera and mostly helping people that weren't actors show up on camera. So CEOs, CTOs, who were speaking on camera for the first time and figuring out how to show their personalities, how to show their message, how to make sure that they're as impressive when they speak to a camera as they are when they speak to their teams, because that was not the case.
(37:11):
They were showing up as robotic and stiff. So that was the one thing I isolated and I connected that to how I had been speaking on stage, doing all this improv that you talked about that we have in common, and how do I connect all of that? So what I found in common was the love for speaking in front of an audience and how that doesn't come naturally to a lot of people. So helping people with the skills that I had inadvertently picked up after 17 years of seeking out the limelight. That's what I did two years ago where I took every single thing that I knew about public speaking, speaking on camera, showing up with confidence and impact, distilled it into a system and created a full-time business out of it. So I was able to completely step away from filmmaking from all the other stuff I was doing at the time and dedicate myself to public speaking coaching a year and a half ago.
Kim (38:06):
Wow. And where exactly did you grow up, by the way?
Nausheen (38:10):
So I grew up in Pakistan, and then after that I've lived in a number of places. I lived in the us, so I was in New York. I went to grad school there, very close to my heart. We actually ended up getting married in New York, and then I lived in China for a long time, and now I'm in France in the southwest of France in a lovely little city called to lose.
Kim (38:28):
Wow, okay. That's exciting. And then who is we? I saw in your intake form you were like, we lived in China. Who is we?
Nausheen (38:34):
Oh, my husband and I.
Kim (38:35):
Okay, great. I feel like we learn about people and then I'm like, where are they? Because especially since Covid, everyone's in a different place and I have all these friends and colleagues and peers that I've never met in person anyway. I love all that. When you first decided, okay, I'm going to not do filmmaking, I'm actually going to launch this business, how did you figure out what's going to be the structure of the business? What am I going to charge? How am I going to find clients? What was that next step from that pivot?
Nausheen (39:01):
It was very much building the car as I was driving it. So I was building in public before I even knew the term building in public, and I definitely didn't think that was cool. I just knew that's what I was doing. So building my brand on LinkedIn is very closely linked to me deciding to become an entrepreneur for the second time. That was also something I'd been thinking about for easily a decade, that I need to get my voice out there. I need to build my brand. I didn't have a digital footprint for the longest time. Well into my thirties. You couldn't really find me on socials, you couldn't find me be active. I had all these debt accounts. So when I decided that I need to get serious about figuring out the next step, I hadn't quite figured out yet that it was going to be public speaking coaching.
(39:47):
I just knew there was going to be a next step. It wasn't going to be filmmaking, and I had to figure out how to create a personal brand so that I could be location free, I could do the work that I wanted and be sought out as an expert, as an authority. And I started writing on LinkedIn about everything, about filmmaking, about public speaking, about my opinion on the latest French book I had read. And out of all of that, public speaking was the one that struck a chord. I got a lot of people reaching out to me about public speaking, and I realized it's something that's fascinating and scary for a lot of people. Great combo. So that's where I got first noticed by LinkedIn themselves. They invited me to become a LinkedIn learning instructor on public speaking alongside, because I also come from a PR background.
(40:35):
I knew that I also wanted to make sure I had a calling card, something that people could identify me with. That's when I went out and looked for my TEDx opportunities and did several TEDx talks during that time. And alongside, I'm building my brand on LinkedIn. I have no idea what the business is actually going to look like. I stumble upon one-on-one coaching because someone reaches out to me and says, Nashi and I want to work with you. How does that look like? And I just quickly put together a proposal as if I've been doing this forever. That's how I got my first client, a few clients down the road. I realized, okay, now I need to make sure that I have a very clear program and a system. I can't just speak to people on an ad hoc basis. That's when I looked at and created my voice energy, body language delivery toolkit, and that's what I teach people along the way. Also came a bootcamp. You run a video bootcamp, I run a speaking bootcamp where it's an accelerator program and I get a great group of people together and I teach them how to be strong speakers and communicators, very much building the whole thing out as I'm driving it, figuring out things like webinars and masterclasses and newsletters and lead magnets, things that were alien to me two years ago. So very much and very much learning as I go along.
Kim (41:54):
Yeah, I'm basically getting the stuff about my business that I hate. I'm like, oh, I have to learn something else to do this thing. But it's good. It's good. It's funny. One thing that you were saying earlier was that you always loved performing. I actually always loved making people laugh and having them pay attention to me and whatever, but I actually didn't perform much. I did a little bit of improv in my twenties with my brother who's a comedian, and then I didn't have the confidence to pursue on camera work for a while. I was already a national TV producer, really good career. And then finally I'm like, Hey, I need to send out my real and see if I could get on camera. I did. I became an on-camera reporter for a little while, and at that point I realized I don't really want this anymore.
(42:36):
And actually, I really loved producing. I loved writing, even though I was behind the scenes. It was just fun. It's always, you are learning something new, you're in the middle of exciting things. And then I became an executive. I'm like, I'm getting paid to mentor a team, to be creative, to help other people be creative. I still enjoyed being on camera sometimes, but it was really a small part of my career, which is interesting because now performing is a huge part of my career with the podcast and being on video for social media. So I feel like it's not dovetailing, but it's kind of bringing together things that I had always liked and been interested in, and now it forces me to do that more because if I always tell, I always say this, I'm like, if you're hiding from the camera, you're hiding from clients.
(43:17):
And that's really what pushed me in front of the camera for my business. I realized I didn't want to only have corporate clients relying on word of mouth. I really wanted to build a brand so that I could have a business same as you. I'm like, I want a business where I can pick up my kids from school sometimes I want to be able to help people, but from the comfort of the room, I don't want to travel and do shoots all the time. I had been in Netflix, I didn't want to travel to LA once a month. I didn't want to travel to different TV locations that they were filming at around the country or North America, and it was kind of necessity as the mother of invention. And so I said, okay, remember those skills that are a little bit dormant? Wake 'em up and you're going to put 'em out.
(43:59):
But it's just a funny thing. I think it ties together many of the things you were talking about earlier is about building up that confidence. I had to build up my confidence to say, okay, I'm Kim. I have a voice. I have a perspective, and it's now very obvious to me. But at the time, I was like, who's going to hire me? And people were like, Kim, I started my business in 2019, 2020, right before they're like, Kim, a lot of people need to know how to leverage video. I was like, yeah, that's true, but are they going to pay me for it? And then that's so crazy. My resume is crazy. Objectively speaking, I've worked at all these huge companies and I've won six awards for my videos, but I even have that. Well, who's going to hire me? And it's just so nonsensical.
(44:45):
So I think the things in our head that make us feel small that we need to fight against, we have to have to ask those questions, answer those questions for ourself, build that confidence, and then I love, to your point, we have to be showing up and speaking with confidence and working on it because our impact is everywhere in a grocery store, in a conference room, in a video online. So I just find it, it's been a crucial part of my business, and I wouldn't have this business if I didn't start showing up on camera and on social media.
Nausheen (45:15):
I love that. I love what you said about how if you're hiding from the camera, you're hiding from clients. It is so true, and I'm so glad that you found your voice and you said that I'm Kim, and this is my voice, and it deserves to be heard. One of the first times that I started making videos on LinkedIn, so first what I was doing was just taking extracts from my TEDx talk and older events and just kind of putting it as video content. And one of my very first clients said, hin, if I want to hire you as a coach, I want to see you speak. I want to see you speak very often. I want to see you speak about many, many, many things, not just seeing you speak on stage that one time. And that made me realize that I need to be really serious about creating videos and getting my face out there, because if people can see me speak, then they know that I know what I'm talking about, that I can speak on camera, that I can engage audiences, and B, it shows them that it's not that scary.
(46:17):
And that's exactly what happened. I have people reaching out to me every day talking about how they made their first video because they saw my videos, and it's incredible. It's incredible the kind of snowball effect that you can have just by deciding to not be invisible. What
Kim (46:32):
Did you find from LinkedIn? What sort of content did you find has helped you build, because you have a good following on LinkedIn. What did you find has helped you build? Do you have a team supporting you? I know a lot of people find the engagement is time consuming. Do you have people helping you?
Nausheen (46:47):
Yeah, so absolutely. I got help very early on when you're already an entrepreneur. I was, as a filmmaker, I already knew the importance and the value that a team could bring when I was a filmmaker, for example, even though I knew how to edit, we were taught that at film school. I can't edit the way that my editor who works with motion graphics and all kinds of audio the way that they can, and I would be stupid to try to do that myself. So bringing in specialists who can help elevate the quality of your work, I've always been sold on that. So very early on, I got designers to help me with content. I got video editors for my videos. I got some help in figuring out how does LinkedIn work. So I got help from LinkedIn coaches figuring out the algorithm, what kind of content should I write and should I be putting out?
(47:35):
So in terms of LinkedIn and perhaps other social media platforms as well, but I can speak more about LinkedIn because that's where I've grown. The one thing that you can do to grow is to really understand the value of different types of content. A lot of people stick to creating text posts, just writing things out, adding a picture because easy and that can get you reach sometimes if you're creating a really great post that people can resonate with. But where a video comes in is for sure, it's high effort, but it's high reward where if you can create a video that even a handful of people or a few hundred people see, then they're going to be so much more convinced to work with you. This is regardless of the actual work that you do. Of course, in my case, it's very closely related to the actual work that we do, but I've seen this work for anyone, any kind of coach, any kind of consultant, any kind of entrepreneur, any kind of product or service where if you can create an impactful piece of video content that showcases who you are, what you stand for, how you can help people, you are absolutely doubling or tripling or quadrupling your chances of getting someone to work with you.
Kim (48:53):
I love that. This has been such a great conversation. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to share?
Nausheen (49:01):
No, I think we covered a lot of stuff. Thank you.
Kim (49:03):
Really, I liked it. Lemme ask you every question I could think of and how can people follow you? How can people find you?
Nausheen (49:09):
So other than LinkedIn, I'm on Speaking Coach, that's my website speaking coach, and that's where I have a lot of free resources. You can also sign up for a free course on learning to speak fearlessly. That's where you get some of the core teachings that I do in my paid classes and workshops, so you can get access to that for free. And there's a lot of articles and videos that I regularly update the entire website with.
Kim (49:35):
Amazing Nausheen. This has been so awesome. Thank you so much.
Nausheen (49:38):
Thank you so much, Kim. This was great. Thank you for having me.
Kim (49:45):
Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rittberg.