Ep. 131/ Helping Women Land More Keynotes & At Higher Rates: Jess Ekstrom
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Jess Ekstrom, a Forbes top-rated speaker and the creative mind behind Mic Drop Workshop is helping women get paid more as a speaker! She says women are only 30% of keynote speakers and she’s here to change that! She runs Mic Drop Workshop which helps women land higher paid speaking gigs. She’ll teach you how to get speaking gigs, how to charge higher rates, and how to turn 1 speaking engagement into 5. She also shares her learnings from what she did wrong at first and how to craft a relatable and profitable speech. We have a wide-ranging chat with lots of great nuggets and you’ll also learn how Bernie Madoff impacted her career trajectory.
Jess Ekstrom is a 7-figure entrepreneur behind Headbands of Hope, Forbes Top-Rated Speaker and creator of Mic Drop Workshop. While Jess focuses on helping women break into the industry as only 30% of speakers are women, her advice empowers any upcoming speaker and public figure to become influential and get compensated right.
In this episode you will learn:
The massive gender disparity in men’s & women’s speeches - 1:57
How relatable moments connect speakers to audiences - 6:28
How to get higher rates for your speaking engagements - 11:20
What else to ask for if you can’t get the rate you want - 13:51
How optimize your LinkedIn profile to find niche audience for speaking gigs - 17:50
How to turn 1 speaking gig into 5 - 17:50
The exact things to say in negotiations - 19:15
How to get referrals from other speakers - 25:26
How to develop an empowering personal brand - 30:09
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In this episode of Podcast, host Kim Rittberg interviews Jess Ekstrom, the dynamic force behind Mic Drop Workshop, as they delve into valuable insights for aspiring speakers. Jess shares her journey from launching Headbands of Hope in college to becoming a Forbes top-rated speaker and a seven-figure entrepreneur. The discussion highlights crucial lessons on negotiation, overcoming gender pay disparity in speaking fees, and the importance of developing a signature talk. Jess also offers practical tips on using LinkedIn for gig sourcing, negotiating non-monetary benefits, and leveraging associations for speaking opportunities. Tune in to discover how Jess’s strategies have empowered over 4,000 women and why she emphasizes extracting universal lessons from everyday experiences. This episode is packed with actionable advice for women aiming to break into the speaking industry and achieve scalable success. Don't miss Jess's personal anecdotes, insights on equitable compensation, and her secret sauce for effective referrals. For more resources, visit Kim's website and check the show notes.
In this episode you will learn:
The massive gender disparity in men’s & women’s speeches - 1:57
How relatable moments connect speakers to audiences - 6:28
How to get higher rates for your speaking engagements - 11:20
What else to ask for if you can’t get the rate you want - 13:51
How optimize your LinkedIn profile to find niche audience for speaking gigs - 17:50
How to turn 1 speaking gig into 5 - 17:50
The exact things to say in negotiations - 19:15
How to get referrals from other speakers - 25:26
How to develop an empowering personal brand - 30:09
Quotes from our guest:
“I just realized I'm like, oh, people want to be able to relate to the speaker, and they need to be able to draw the connection between where they're sitting in the audience to where that speaker is standing." - 6:37
"Usually the things that we're best at teaching are the things that we were once the worst at." - 10:38
"LinkedIn, it's really changed over the past two years where people are using it as a search engine to find speakers. And so using LinkedIn not just to search for like outbound finding meeting planners, but also optimizing your profile to show that you're a speaker, putting a speaking photo in your head or put the word speaker in your bio so you come up on the searches." - 17:50
“Niche it and pitch it.” - 17:32
"When I realized, oh, what if I started something that wasn't about how far I can reach, but how far I can help other people reach, specifically women, because that's where my passion was. Then I kind of felt this stride in my career where it was more in a state of flow than it was, like, a push that I've experienced, because success was way more scalable to me." - 30:29
Jess Ekstrom Bio:
Jess Ekstrom is a 2x successful social entrepreneur and Forbes Top-Rated speaker. In 2012, she founded Headbands of Hope, a company that has donated millions of headbands to children with illnesses worldwide and partnered with organizations like the NBA, WNBA, and Kohl’s.
A champion for women’s voices, Jess launched Mic Drop Workshop®️ in 2018, empowering women to excel as public speakers and authors. She’s also a 2x bestselling author of Chasing the Bright Side and Create Your Bright Ideas and has been featured on the TODAY Show, Good Morning America, Vanity Fair, and more.
When not working, Jess enjoys hiking, family game nights, and cheering on the NC State Wolfpack in Raleigh, North Carolina, where she lives with her husband and two children.
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Kim (00:02):
You are going to hear from Jess Ekstrom, a seven figure entrepreneur and creator of Mic Drop Workshop, who helps women break into the speaking industry. Did you know only 30% of speakers are women? In addition to helping you get speaking gigs, she helps you get higher paid speaking gigs, gives you exactly what to say to negotiate and how to turn one speaking gig into five. You're going to learn so much if you're looking to take the stage next year, definitely listen to this episode. Welcome to the Exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards and in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the Grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kim rittenberg.com.
(01:29):
Jess Ekstrom is a seven figure entrepreneur behind had Bands of Hope, a Forbes top rated speaker and creator of Mic Drop Workshop. While Jess focuses on helping women break into the industry as only 30% of speakers are women, her advice empowers any upcoming speaker and public figure to become influential and get compensated right. She's also the author of Chasing the Brightside and has a strong community of over 187,000 subscribers to her newsletter and 44,000 followers on Instagram. Jess, thank you so much for joining us.
Jess (01:54):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited we can do this.
Kim (01:57):
So I love this sort of niche you found for yourself. Talk to me about how you got into a speaking, but also then eventually the gender disparity in speaking.
Jess (02:07):
So for me, speaking was accidental. I had started my first company, headbands of Hope in college, and I had no idea how to get the word out. I didn't know anything about marketing. I was completely broke, and so I would beg college professors for five minutes of time before class started and I'm like, can I just get up there? I joke, I'm up there in a jacket with headbands and the side of it. I'm like, here, you get one, you get one,
Kim (02:32):
You're like a times square vendor.
Jess (02:34):
Exactly. I'm chasing people down. But then I learned, okay, if I can go up there and not just share what I'm doing, but share some takeaways of what they can also do to start something that matters to them, then I can get 10 minutes of time. And then if I can get really good at doing that and build it into an hour long talk, then this is something I can actually get paid to do, which was absolutely mind boggling to me. I'm like, you're telling me you're going to pay me to come up there and speak to your people? This is insane. And so I started doing more mostly in the college circuit to get started and was sleeping on people's couches and doing anything that I was invited for. If they said, we'll give you a bologna sandwich, I was there. But eventually over 10 plus years worked my way up to a Forbes top rated speaker doing a lot of gigs and helping women do the same.
Kim (03:27):
Talk to me about the first gig. I always feel like for people it's like the first gig. First of all, talk to me about the first speaking gig and then talk to me about the first paid speaking gig for you. What was that like? How did it come in?
Jess (03:38):
Yes. First gig was awful as all first things are. I have a picture and it was at Marshall University and I was doing everything that I tell my students now not to do. I was standing behind a podium, I had note cards, I was using a presentation that made sound effects when I switched that spun around and had all these annoying animations. But I will tell you, I wouldn't do it any differently because you just have to rip the bandaid. You just got to do it and then you just keep iterating. And I think if I had all the knowledge that I have now, I probably wouldn't have done it because I would've had analysis paralysis versus just like, okay, let's give it a shot. And then first paid gig was for $2,200 and it was at some school in South Carolina and I remember the nerves and the imposter syndrome for that was intense because I was like, oh, someone has invested money into thinking that I'm a good fit.
(04:48):
I have to give them this groundbreaking information and tell 'em something that they've never heard of before. And again, that was learning opportunity for me because I realized that the most effective messages that we can deliver are sometimes the reminders that we just need to hear that maybe we learned as kindergartners. Speakers aren't there to reinvent the wheel and tell something someone that they've never heard before. A lot of times it's just adding context, your story to something that they just need to be reminded of. Self-confidence or knowing their value or setting goals, things that are really simple,
Kim (05:27):
Interesting. I do think that people feel this pressure. I need to have this big dramatic moment in my life to get on a stage and give a keynote if my moment's not big enough. So talk to me about that for when people feel like, well, I haven't had this epic moment in my life. How can I get up and do a keynote and who's going to pay me for what I have to say?
Jess (05:46):
I think that we do that often where we put a measuring stick even on social media. I'm like, well, I haven't had, my kitchen doesn't look like that or My relationship doesn't look like that, so therefore it's probably not good enough. But I remember when I first started speaking, I was trying to share really big things that have happened to me. And then one time I shared this photo of I was trying to make this bunny pancake and it came out just totally terrible. And I shared this what we show people, which was the pretty picture of the pancake that I found on Pinterest versus what's actually going on behind the scenes. And I shared this absolutely demolished pancake and I'm telling you, Kim, that the amount of people that have come up to me about that pancake versus anything else I've ever done is insane.
(06:36):
And so I just realized, I'm like, oh, people want to be able to relate to the speaker and they need to be able to draw the connection between where they're sitting in the audience to where that speaker is standing. And so it's not about the big groundbreaking stories, it's about the relatable moments that happen in our life and what we make it mean to others. In Mic drop workshop, we call this moment to meaning. It's about looking at your day and pulling out the moments that happened and then how can you extract the universal meaning to someone else. So maybe it's in the drive-through at your favorite coffee shop and you get to the register and the person in front of you is already paid for you. And so you're like, well, let me pay for the person behind me. Someone else might not be going through the same coffee shop, but maybe you can make it mean, hey, maybe doing good things doesn't have to be acknowledged to matter. And what are the things that you can actually make meaning of for someone who will never go through that experience? And that's what you should focus on as a speaker.
Kim (07:43):
What did you first start speaking about? What? What was the topic of your first speeches?
Jess (07:48):
I'm need to even remember? I think it was around social entrepreneurship. And this was again, a mistake that I would love to share because I was like, okay, well, I'm going to share the story of how I started my business, therefore my talk needs to be about how they can start a business.
(08:08):
And so I was confusing my story with my audience. And most of the time today, I am booked for people who have no interest in starting a business who have no interest in becoming a speaker or who have no interest in the things that I am doing today, but I am taking my story of my business and pulling out the meaning of how do we create motivation that lasts? And that's what I speak on at companies and at conferences. But in the beginning, I was speaking on entrepreneurship because I thought that that was, I can only speak to people who want to do the same thing I do, which you're putting yourself in a box when there's so much more opportunity out there. So many events are looking for outside speakers who have nothing to do with their industry, and that's one of the reasons why they're selecting you.
Kim (09:01):
Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that when I first started speaking, I know what to teach on. I love teaching. I come from journalism, I could teach all day long. I love being like, here's your nugget. Here's how to do this. Week one, do this, week two do this. I love teaching. And I think when it came to how do the things that I teach, how do they apply to people who aren't entrepreneurs who are in different industries? And what I've realized is what I teach people is more, there's two sets. It's like for me, who teaches people how to be on camera, teaches people how to do public speaking and or teaches them video strategy. Again, not everyone in my audience, especially at corporate things are entrepreneurs that they're in a corporate setting. So it's how to speak in small group settings where you're making a huge impact.
(09:44):
A seven person conference room might be the biggest impact you'll make. How does that work? Confidence on a stage for people inside a company. And then obviously for video strategy and personal branding that's maybe more self-employed or corporate executives. But I think to your point, it's not about how I built my business, but I could share the story of how I struggled to show up on camera. And that helps them see that even I just like you struggled with showing up, struggled with the mindset piece. And so I like your point of taking what I have to offer and not making it be, oh, well, because I'm an entrepreneur, you must be an entrepreneur, but no rather, what can I teach you? How can this help fit into your life no matter what room you're in, that's more applicable and then you'll get paid for it. Bringing them value.
Jess (10:26):
Totally. I like to think of it, what's the chorus? What's the lesson that keeps coming time and time again through your story that you can teach? And another thing to remember is that usually the things that we're best at teaching are the things that we were once the worst at. No one wants to hear from someone who was just naturally, no one can learn from a comedian who is just naturally funny about how to be funny because they never had to work at it. And so the thing that I speak on is the thing that I had to learn. I had to learn how do I create motivation that lasts? So a lot of times when we think about what we want to speak on, we think, well, what am I an expert at? And then that can again trigger the imposter syndrome, sirens, what is the thing that I had to work at and I'm now maybe 10% ahead than the rest. That's a thing that you should consider speaking on.
Kim (11:20):
And then so I want to talk to about this disparity in the rates. So talk to me first of all, what is the disparity and then how can we as women charge rates that match our male counterparts?
Jess (11:33):
So the latest study was that women keynote speakers make up less than 30% of keynote spots and 24% of panels round table discussions, and they earn 68 cents to the dollar that men are earning on these stages. And this was like a hit me in the face. One of the reasons why I started mic drop workshop besides just seeing a bunch of men on stages, and I'm like, wow, I'm the only woman here, which I'm sure you have felt before, is I was speaking at an event and after I got done a couple weeks later, the event planner called me. She sounded kind of somber and she was like, I need to talk to you. I was like, oh crap. I thought I did a good job at this event. Am I in the principal's office? I felt like I was about to get in trouble. I was like, what did I say? Did I say something offensive? She was like, I just needed to tell you something, woman to woman. We did review cards with our attendees and your keynote ranked the highest approval among the weekend. I was like, that's great. What's the issue? She said, I just wanted you to know that we paid you $8,500 to come speak and we paid the morning mail keynote $50,000 to come speak. Yeah,
Kim (12:55):
Wait, okay, back it up. So first I'm gasping. Obviously 8,500 versus 50,000 is less than 20% fine, fine. That's shocking. Did this person come with millions of followers? I do think sometimes when the fees bake in other things, so
Jess (13:12):
Right. No, there definitely, and I agree that there are different kinds of speakers. There's the name speakers who will sell tickets. Maybe they don't have this crazy polished keynote, but it's like Peyton Manning's going to be there. So of course Peyton Manning's going to yield a higher fee, but I am telling you this was not that case. There are, I like to say for every incredible woman afraid to quote $5,000 to speak, there is an average white male quoting 25,000 and getting it without even a flinch. Nothing against them. They're asking for it. We're not. And so we need to change that.
Kim (13:51):
So very interesting is in the past six months I was listed as a part of a speaker's, available speakers for something and because it was a closed platform for people and then event planners can come in and look around, I was able to see the fees that were listed and wouldn't, you know what, Jess, I agree with what you're saying. I turn to my husband, I go, the only person asking 10 K for a keynote besides me is some guy who had much less experience and much less of a stellar resume than these other women. And I'm not saying speaking wise, maybe he's amazing, I don't know. But I was like, wait a second. All of these women's rates were listed much lower. I want to say 2000, 4,000, 5,000, and this other guy's like my rate's 10 K. And I'm like, that guy doesn't have, I feel like there are things that you know about yourself, you know about other people.
(14:48):
I'm like, oh, he doesn't have the resume of person, he doesn't have the speaking skills of whatever. I'm sure he's good on a stage, but when you talk about his resume, it's just not, I was like, it's not there. So I found that really fascinating, which obviously as part of this conversation I really turned to my husband. I go, oh my God. A lot of these times that rates are gate kept so you can't see them. You go to a speaker's bureau page and you can't see if John Doe and Jane Doe, he's charging 40 and she's charging 10, you can't see that. So for me, being able to see, I think it was a sample size of 10 or 15 people, it was totally what you said, and that really, obviously it shook me. I was like, oh my God,
Jess (15:29):
It shook me the first time I was seeing this.
Kim (15:32):
Now that we know that, first of all, how do we fight that?
Jess (15:37):
Well, I'll tell you one more story around this that I think is an interesting part to the equation is I was speaking at an event, it was an event for event planners, and after I got done speaking, there was a panel of event planners for all the major Fortune 500 companies that we've all heard of. And it was about why are there such few women speakers? And one of the event planners said, look, I want to get women to speak on our stage, but they're less than 12% of our applications every year. And so I think it's like a double-edged sword of the stat. And I'm not sure the exact stat around men will apply if they meet 50% of the qualifications. Women will only apply if they meet a hundred percent speaking has this aura of being very elitist and expert and I have to be Brene Brown or I have to have a TED talk with millions of views in order to yield a five figure fee, which quite frankly isn't the case.
(16:37):
And so if women have this crippling and imposter syndrome, and I'm not saying everyone does, but I'm saying that they're not applying nearly as much as men. We need to make the barrier to entry more accessible. So that's why I like in mic drop workshop, it's just get your first paid gig and this is how you do it. Discover what you want to be known for. Build a signature talk, which is another one that I see a lot of speakers get wrong, I put in quotation marks is that they think the value of speaking comes from tailoring and customizing your talk each time when truly the value of speaking comes from a proven talk that you're giving each time. You can customize small parts of it, but give the same talk every time. Get good at it. So we figure out what's your signature talk? And then what are your no-brainer audiences that need to hear this? What are they paying? What are other speakers in your industry in that field paying? And then how to find them. If I can just answer all of the reasons that make a woman pause before she hits submit, then maybe we can get that 12% number up.
Kim (17:43):
And I have people ask me this all the time, so I'm going to ask you in terms of finding the speaking gigs that pay, what's your best advice for that
Jess (17:50):
LinkedIn? It's really changed over the past two years where people are using it as a search engine to find speakers. And so using LinkedIn, not just to search for outbound finding meeting planners, but also optimizing your profile to show that you're a speaker, putting a speaking photo in your header, put the word speaker in your bio so you come up on the searches. But the other thing I would say too is something that in my drop workshop, we call it niche it and pitch it, which is find a specific audience. And it's really helpful to do this with associations. So many associations out there that are booking speakers and then you've spoken at one and now there's 49 other states that you could speak at. So finding one association, maybe it's women in real estate of Florida, and you go there and you speak and you negotiate in your contract that on top of your speaking fee that you are also needing them to do four referral introductions to other associations. Then that's how you can also turn one gig into five spinoff opportunities. So instead of being like, I'm just going to go pitch myself to every leadership or women's event in the country, niche it and pitch it, what's one industry that you can go after and then get a lot of reps there and then branch off?
Kim (19:15):
Now, do you recommend the referral idea, which is brilliant? Do you recommend the referral idea being like if they're trying to negotiate, you're like, Hey, instead of this you need to give me four referrals for me to agree to this rate. Is it a part of the negotiation?
Jess (19:31):
Yeah, so there's a couple things I would say that I would always include in your negotiation that are non-monetary value. That can be really helpful. The first one is referrals. Referrals to three or four other events. Put a date on it, say within two weeks after the event, make those introductions. The second thing is a testimonial. Testimonials are so huge to help generate some credibility. And then third thing is access to footage and photos taken at the event. And those are three things that are sometimes more valuable than a fee, but it shouldn't be an either or. You can put that in and put it in the contract. Don't just have it be a verbal agreement.
Kim (20:12):
Yeah. Associations, when you're talking about the women's real estate of Florida, it sounds like the sort of association that would not have a big budget. So how do you find the ones that do have a budget versus the ones that don't have a budget?
Jess (20:25):
Associations do typically have budgets, and they're usually somewhere within the five to 10,000 range, which is great for entry to mid-level speakers. But still as a speaker myself, I'll still speak at associations for that kind of money because then they have national associations which have a lot higher budget, and now I'm getting my audition in at a state level. But then the other thing too about associations, why I rank them high in opportunity is because there's spinoff opportunity. Everyone in the room works for a different company that could potentially bring you in to speak. And so the value I place on opportunities where I could potentially get booked from people in the audience is really high. And so in mic drop workshop, I create a gig scorecard of how do you rate a gig beyond monetary value. So it could be how credible is the company, will that logo look great on your site? Is it a place that you want to travel to with your family? Is it a company a cause that you really care about? But also is there spinoff opportunity where you can get booked for other events? Will you get great assets from it? Will it be a nice stage? Will there be great audio from it? And so there's just so many different ways that you can look at these opportunities beyond do they meet my fee?
Kim (21:54):
Yeah, I love that. So as these women become more similar, desirable, getting bigger fees, the negotiation part of it, I feel like maybe just me, and I think a lot of people are like this, I'd be like, okay, so I'm telling them they have to refer four people in it, but am I saying that in the call or am I putting in the agreement? Do you know what I mean? I think that people are like, yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. I'll definitely ask for that. But it's like, are we asking for it? Are we making it a part of the agreement?
Jess (22:26):
Yeah. So I'll give you kind of a role play example of how this could play
Kim (22:30):
Out. I love a good role play.
Jess (22:31):
Role play.
Kim (22:32):
Yeah, let's role play it.
Jess (22:33):
So let's say you're on the phone with an event, and I would always negotiate over the phone, never an email. I like to kick it to them first and say, when they say, what's your budget or what's your fee? I like to say, well, where are you hoping to land? And that helps give me an idea if they're like, well, we have $500 or if we have $15,000. But usually beforehand I can tell what their budget is just based on the venue, the previous speakers, the company that's hosting it, and so where are they hoping to land? And they might say, $10,000 is what we have allotted for this. And I'll say, well, my fee is 25. And so I'm wondering if there's ways that we can make this a win-win and meet in the middle. So I'll list a couple ways like testimonial footage and photos, but I'll say something that's really helpful for me as a speaker is referrals to other companies.
(23:24):
And so would you be open to referring me as a part of my compensation? And I've never had anyone say no. And so that's kind of a way that you can play. It is like we're kind of far apart on fee. Here are some ways that you can help make it happen. And my friend Maggie Palmer, she's the founder of Pep, her, and she talks about negotiation is literally just a conversation to meet a mutual goal. I for so long thought negotiation meant conflict that we're not agreeing. And it's like no negotiation can be really happy and healthy. And it's like, what do you care about? What do I care about and how do we make it work? And so I think even that just definition has helped me go into negotiations.
Kim (24:12):
Yeah, I love that. One of the ideas I agree. I mean, I think building my business has taught me all of these skills, negotiating sales, all this stuff. One of the things that I was thinking about, actually a friend of mine who's an event planner gave me the idea that I then put it into a speaking gig similar to yours, is, wow, that rate is really not in the ballpark of what I normally charge, but here are some ways in which it could be a win-win for us. And so her idea, which I took was to layer on a private VIP meeting with me for the VIP people. These are people who come, they have more money, they could be clients. So of course association's different than you're speaking to the end user. And so I thought that was interesting. I was like, okay, great.
(24:55):
That's the sort of thing where I feel like, ugh, this is really not my rate, but it is a good opportunity, so what else can I get out of it? So I like the idea of taking what we all know as negotiating negotiation tactics, making the pie bigger. It's not just about the dollars. What else can we put in, what do they not care about but is really valuable to me? All of that stuff. So I love the idea of being creative with what are the things I might want and what might they be able to give me that isn't monetary if they have a hard stop on the rate.
Jess (25:26):
And I'll tell you one more kind of secret sauce that I think is really untapped in the speaking world is speaker to speaker referrals. And so the reality is when you speak at an event, they're most likely not going to book you that following year because it's the same people in the audience and they need a new speaker. It's very rare that I get year over year same opportunities. And so I've made it a practice that every single time that I speak before I leave the venue and they're thanking me, I'll say, are you looking for speakers for your next event? And they say, oh my gosh, yes. Who do you know? And I have my couple speakers who I've vetted and I know and am willing to endorse and put their name in the hat, send them their websites, and then if they book, I get a kickback from that and vice versa. And so in mic drop workshop, we call this a speaker sister, find someone who has a similar but non-competing message to yours that you can easily refer and give them a 10, 15% kickback because speaker recommendations are such a great way to get a warm lead without any effort on your part.
Kim (26:43):
Yeah, I love that. Okay, switching gears, I feel like there's so much valuable knowledge. I'm like, I can't wait for everyone to hear this episode. Yay. I did see something in your information you sent in for the podcast. I was like, I need to ask Jess about this. So you are the niece of Bernie Madoff. Talk to me about that and what it was like when that whole scandal happened and then how you moved past that.
Jess (27:08):
Yeah, talk about a plot twist. I was in high school in 2008 when it happened, and it was just terrible it, and it's not like Bernie was really close with the family now I know why, but it was really tough seeing other people dragged from it, like his wife Ruth and his sons. And then it was tough seeing my parents and my grandparents lose everything that they had invested in them and see thousands of other victims do the same. But I think being younger when it happened, I was naive to have crippling concern and instead you, I wanted to be a journalist. And I was like kind of went into journalism mode and started to just try to get the story. And he was actually in prison an hour and a half from where I lived in North Carolina. So I went to ask him how did he do this?
(28:14):
And I was expecting him to come back with stuff about the stocks and blah, blah, blah and things I just wouldn't understand. And he told me that this whole thing really started when he was a kid in Brooklyn and he would pay kids in nickels to hang out with him. He's like, ever since I was a kid, I just had this just dying need to belong and to be seen as the best even if I wasn't. And so I think unknowingly hearing that at how old was I? Like 16, 17 years old, gave me this perspective for my own career of I want to do something that I can look back on and be proud of. And I also learned the deep cost of what external validation can do. That just horse and the carrot and always thinking I need to get one more thing or just get the approval from others. I saw that in its most terrible form. So it was terrible, but in a lot of ways, I don't think I'd be here talking to you on this podcast if it didn't happen.
Kim (29:25):
So you feel like that was really a formational really important moment for you to realize what you're meant to be doing?
Jess (29:32):
Yeah, I mean it had to be. It was like, yeah, for sure.
Kim (29:37):
Wow, I don't want to end on that note. I have to say,
Jess (29:40):
Yeah, let's find something else.
Kim (29:41):
Let's find something else to do. Let's find something else to do. I was like, wait, now I'm like, I just cannot Talk to me about the moment that you were like, I'm doing the thing I'm meant to be doing. So you launched your coaching after doing the Headbands of Hope. How's it going? I feel like as an entrepreneur, we do it sort of masochistic, but also very driven. Talk about the moment you're like, I'm supposed to be doing this. This is what I'm meant to be doing.
Jess (30:09):
I think I was measuring my success based on how far I could reach, and it was like, how many stages can I get on? How many people can I talk to? How many books can I write? And you realize just how one lonely that is and two, how not scalable that is. You are one human. And so when I realized, oh, what if I started something that wasn't about how far I can reach, but how far I can help other people reach specifically women where my passion was, then I kind of felt this stride in my career where it was more in a state of flow than it was a push that I've experienced because success was way more scalable to me. I can't be on a stage every day, but I can help another woman be on a stage every day. And now we've had over 4,000 women go through this program successfully, and so that's when I knew, I was like, oh, this is how I want to be spending my time.
Kim (31:10):
Or Jess, before we wrap up, you ready for some rapid fire? Let's do it. Okay. Weirdest job you've ever had.
Jess (31:16):
I worked in inflatable amusement park called Monkey Joe's, and I had to be the monkey sometimes as a mascot, and I had to be a referee for birthday parties. Weird stuff. That's pretty weird.
Kim (31:27):
An embarrassing moment in life or work.
Jess (31:30):
Oh my gosh. The thing that just comes to my mind when I think about embarrassing moments is at my cousin's bat mitzvah when I was a kid and I was dancing and fell off the stage into the speakers and they had to stop everything.
Kim (31:45):
Oh my God, I had that happen, but it was in college as a sorority party, so it was totally,
Jess (31:49):
Oh yeah, either way. It's just like fused in my mind. Yeah.
Kim (31:54):
Oh my God. I love that surprising skill. You have pickleball. I've joined the craze. I mean, is that even surprising? I feel like you're not a person if you're not good at pickleball right
Jess (32:03):
Now. Right? I know, right. But I consider myself pretty dirty on the pickleball court.
Kim (32:08):
Worst advice you've ever gotten?
Jess (32:10):
Worst advice I've ever gotten is probably You need a man's help.
Kim (32:16):
Oh, boo. That is the only, I say before we got on the call, I was like, my husband didn't put up my second monitor. It's not that I can't do it, I'm just like,
Jess (32:25):
I'm going to give him that job and I'm not afraid to ask for help, but I don't think I specifically need a man's help. Yeah. Oh my
Kim (32:30):
God. What was that regarding?
Jess (32:32):
It was starting my first company. It was, oh, you should go for a co-founder, maybe a man that helps with this. And I was like,
Kim (32:39):
Yeah, you should get a man to start headbands for hope with you. A
Jess (32:41):
Man
Kim (32:42):
Should help with your headband company. He should wear his headband first thing you do in the morning.
Jess (32:47):
Right now it is Feed my baby because he is my alarm clock.
Kim (32:52):
Yeah, that's how it goes. There's no scrolling Instagram when you have a baby.
Jess (32:56):
It is. Get up and go. Yeah.
Kim (32:57):
Awesome. Thank you so much, Jess. This has been great. And how can people follow you, connect with you, all of that?
Jess (33:03):
Yes, you can go to mic drop workshop.com and if you want to learn more, we have a free training too that you can take if you just want to get your feet wet. And then I like to send out a quote every Monday via text. And so it is the thing that I love to do, just like food for your thought for your week. So you can text me the word hype to 7 0 4 2 2 8 9 4 9 5 and you'll hear from me every Monday at 11:00 AM Eastern with a quote for your week.
Kim (33:31):
Wow. That's such a smart idea. Jess, this is such a great chat. Thank you so much. Thanks, Kim. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I'd love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Rittberg.