EP. 26 / Burnout Brought Bethany Braun Silva to a New Career Stage + Tips to Identify and Extinguish burnout
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Have you ever felt burnt out as a parent and a professional? How do you handle the feeling of burnout? And what does the feeling of burnout make you confront as a working mom?
Bethany Braun-Sliva explains how burnout led her to new beginnings… by forcing her to reevaluate what she wanted out of her personal and professional life and finally deciding the hustle culture wasn’t all it’s cut out to be. As a result of burnout, this mom of two left her high-profile position as a parenting editor at top publications to reimagine what work-life balance meant to her. Bethany is in the process of transitioning from that nine-to-five mentality to that entrepreneur mentality and has insights into how to stay motivated when you feel like the money isn’t pouring in, how you can write your own rules and why you should always speak up to ask for what you want. Bethany will also share her top parenting tips – and why accepting burnout may actually be the answer to finding your success.
Plus, health & wellness coach Jennifer Khalaf offers tips on how to tackle burnout. And in our real mom moment, Kim shares what it’s like when the kids’ sit on the sidelines and the parents take over the soccer field.
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Show Takeaways from Parenting Editor Bethany Braun Silva:
On How Burnout Leads to New Beginnings
“I burnt myself to a crisp I was spending 8 hours a day standing in my kitchen working and it was just like a mess it was such a mess…I just now feel like I'm coming out of the burnout on the other side. It took about a year of me um working sort of like serving my own you know passions and creativity”
On Highlighting Your Soft Skills in a Job Interview
“I definitely got hired on my soft skills like being easy to work with…”
On Making Sure To Use Your Voice
“We are so afraid to ask for what we want. I was a 31 year old mother starting a new job. Leaking at my desk and so afraid to ask for a pumping room and they knew I was four weeks postpartum and I was going to pump in the bathroom. Don’t be afraid to ask!”
How to Extinguish Burnout from Jennifer Khalaf of Thrive Hive Wellness
Get More Sleep
impacts nervous system and hormones
every hour of sleep before midnight is worth 2 after
Eat good quality protein - helps balance blood sugar
Don’t be in ‘fight or flight mode’
Meditate or listen to a podcast
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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim Rittberg (00:01):
We're talking about betting on yourself and burnout. Parenting editor and writer, Bethany Bra Silva is sharing her top parenting tips, but more importantly, her own personal experience with burnout and how it's inspired her to pivot and bet on herself. Then wellness coach Jen Kaev has tips on how to identify burnout and how to tackle it.
This is Mom's exit interview, the show for moms who wanna craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational moms across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms, and they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness, to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work, but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses. They're taking back control. Join me and make work, work for you instead of the other way around.
Hey everyone, thanks for listening. Before we start, please fall the show and leave a rating review and tell a friend. That is how the word spreads. And I also wanted to bring you into a funny parenting moment that I recently had. I'm icing my knee and my ankle <laugh> because of a thing I did. I'm sharing this story because it reminds me to make new memories, be brave or stupid, and to reconnect with my old passions. I think that's something that a lot of us parents can relate to. So this season I've been coaching my daughter's soccer league and they invited parents to play in a fun game of parents versus refs. So I'm gonna describe that these refs are actually coaches. They're all in their twenties. They're wearing spandex, they're wearing champion, they're wearing athletic clothing, not ath leisure like us. The parents show up.
We are actually, one parent was wearing Jean cutoffs, <laugh>. Nobody at Shin Guards. Maybe one person had cleats. So I looked at my husband, Alex, and we were like, what did we sign up for? He nor I have played soccer in about 20 years. So any, we are like, all right, well obviously it's gonna be 15 parents against nine res or coaches. No, nope. It was the exact same number. It was nine players against nine players. And my husband and I were mostly praying that we wouldn't get concussed and be rushed off in a gurney, but we felt pretty committed to playing cuz we wanted to show our kids that we can try hard and our kids were on the side watching for us, us and cheering for us and we're not good. So it was a great lesson that you could still have fun at doing something that you're not great at.
I played defense, I've always played defense, and one time I went for the ball. I almost crashed into another parent. I pretty much ripped his shoulders with my shoulders and nearly hugged him to just not fall. But I also had a great save. The ball bounced off the goalie and the ball was spinning in mid-air, like it was in slow motion and I kind of dove and kicked it out of bounds. I was like, I just saved the goal. Anyway, it was completely insane, but I'm icing my whole body and so is my husband. And then secondarily at the league, I also got to meet some cool parents. I recruited someone to play with us. Her name is Jen. She's a wellness coach and she's actually coming on at the end of this session. She's giving advice number out. But the lesson I took away is that it reminded me how much I love playing team sports reminded me to get back in touch with my passions and it also reminded me to keep making new memories. Like my husband and I say, we're gonna be 80 and looking at each other and be like, remember the time we played soccer against real athletes and we were not fit and not young <laugh>.
Wait, I almost forgot to tell you we won the game. Yes, the old out of shape parents beat the young in-shape res and coaches. How did that happen? I have no idea. Wonders never ceased. But my husband's theory is that the coaches and reps were so focused on the fancy footwork and showing off to each other that they didn't focus on strategy. We had a couple of good players who scored some goals and my husband and I played some mean defense. <laugh>. Before we hear from Bethany, I wanted to do a quick plug. If you're looking to grow your business with digital video or podcast, give me a shout. I love helping brands and businesses grow. I learned from the best. I spent 15 years at Netflix. I launched US Weekly's digital video unit, and I was a TV news producer. So now I apply all that knowledge to businesses to help them grow.
So check me out online, kimrittberg.com. You can have that contact button. Make a message me Instagram, I'm super friendly. And now we're gonna talk to Bethany Braun Silva. She has two boys that are 10 and seven and I love hearing from Bethany. First of all, she's been covering parenting as a writer and editor for so many years, so she has great tips. But I specifically love hearing how her personal path has shifted and because the system wasn't working for her, she felt like it didn't support her. She's now figuring out a way to do what she loves on her own terms. And you know what? She's right in the middle of it. We're actually in the middle of her journey, which is fantastic. She's also very frank about the finances of it all that it's not all roses, but it is all worth it. Here's her story. Bethany, I'm so excited to have you with us.
Bethany Braun Silva (05:37):
I am so excited to be here. I'm such a fan.
Kim Rittberg (05:40):
<laugh>. We are a fan of you. All right. First I'm gonna have you introduce yourselves to the audience. Tell us who you are and what you do.
Bethany Braun Silva (05:48):
I'm Bethany Braun Silva. For the past 11 or so years, I have been a parenting writer, parenting editor. I got my start in the editorial world because I was pregnant and needed to make money and figured, oh, I can write. So that's sort of how it started back in 2011. And then since then I've sort of worked my way up the rank, so to speak, and worked for some amazing digital publications like parenting. I was at the helm of that digital pub for a couple years and they're, at the time, they were also owned by parents and people and real simple. So I got to sort dip my toes in those really big waters of digital media. And now I'm over at Wild Sky Media, which publishes mom.com, cafe mom, Latinas, and little things. And I head up, I'm the commerce content. Were there. So anything shopping related I do that
Kim Rittberg (06:40):
You were writing and then as you had your, that's when you started writing in the parenting space. So it was the perfect, perfect timing.
Bethany Braun Silva (06:48):
Yeah, I was working for some media agencies that were sort of based out of Europe. So you think tabloid media and then got pregnant. I was thought at the time that just being pregnant qualified me to be a parenting writer, which it kind of does. So I just threw my head in the ring, applied for some parenting blogging positions at other companies and really started very small at a New York based blog. Just talking about things to do with your kids and that blog is now doesn't exist anymore. So that's how I got my start.
Kim Rittberg (07:23):
And then, okay, when you went to college, where'd you go to college? What'd you study? Did you envision being a journalist
Bethany Braun Silva (07:29):
<laugh>? No, no, it's so funny. So actually my father, it had this vision for me. He always thought I'd be great as a journalist, maybe in front of the camera as myself in, of maybe a broadcast way. I went to school, I went to NYU for Drama and <laugh>. I don't know, it was so fun. But part of me is, I don't know why. I have a little bit of embarrassment around it probably cuz of all the things I did there. And it was all very expensive. It was very expensive. Four years of just having fun and rolling around on the floor, but it's still nyu and that was great. So it took me kind of a while to get to this point. After I graduated, I found myself out in LA as most actors do, and realized very quickly that this was not for me. I did not want to be an actress, I didn't wanna audition, I didn't wanna pretend to be someone else.
And I started taking classes at ucla, like at their extended education school. So in broadcast journalism and instantly fell in love and everything just was aligning because I was really good at it and I was like, and feel really good at something and you're excited to do it. It didn't feel like a chore. I was excited to just go to class and do the work and go out there and interview and create my own stories. And I met one of my very first mentor mentors there, Donna Tetra, who's a professor over there, but also an amazing parenting broadcast journalist when at the time wasn't a mom. I was, my kids were about a year and a half away up in the stratosphere or whatever it is. But it was funny that she became my mentor and she's one of the premier parenting journalists in the country.
Kim Rittberg (09:12):
It's so interesting. I feel like what we're exposed to when we're little, I think a lot of people who end up in writing or blogging or journalism, it's like you see journalists, TV news anchors, and then you see actors and you're like, oh, if you wanna do this thing, these are the two paths. And actually there's all of these jobs for people. Most of them are behind the scenes and maybe you can put your name on stuff, but you're not, most people are like, you're not the TV news anchor, you're not the actors holding the Oscar. But there are really solid careers that you can have in it throughout. But I do think it's interesting how you were saying you acted when I was a kid, I acted and one can't play. And my mom brought me to an audition when I was like 11. But I was not an actress, I was not a good actress. But I always enjoyed people and I think it was a good realization, like, oh, I enjoy being around people. I enjoy being where the action is. And that's very much journalism. If you like talking to people and you're curious and you wanna tell stories, it's a great field for that.
Bethany Braun Silva (10:13):
I think that's really what got me was the action, the sort of collaborative experience and the storytelling mean. Obviously acting, you're telling a story, but you're kind of like, and you're telling amazing stories, these incredible plays, movies, whatever it is. But I was really more drawn to the real, real stuff. So it was definitely that storytelling experience for me, working in a collaborative, fast-paced environment. Some people just thrive in that environment and I do. I don't get overwhelmed. I love it. So yeah, that's how I finally took my dad's advice, <laugh> and whatever, five, six years later and realized this was definitely the path that I wanted to take.
Kim Rittberg (10:54):
I do think about that now that I'm a mom, really all of the things my parents had said to me, I do hold onto. And I do think 95% of them was right and I think I might have poo-pooed at the time and swatted them away a fly, oh well, whatever. But now I look back and the things my parents said like, oh, you like to be the center of the action or you're a doer. You like to make things happen and maybe you know, should run your own business or could. I was always like, eh, but now I'm running my own business and I'm making videos for other companies making a podcast for myself. But you're right about your dad was telling you that. I think a lot of us have those moments and now I think about that for my kids. I want them to feel like the world is open to
Bethany Braun Silva (11:37):
Them. But then of course you also have to step back, my dad did with me and just let them make their mistakes. Let them find their own path. But it is so many, I mean obviously we can talk about parenting, that's my bread and butter. But yes, it's such a balance between letting go and trying to teach them and guide them. But that's how I've always been. I've always had to make my own path, make my own mistakes, learn the hard way <laugh> in some cases. But it's been a really exciting journey and I'm really understand that how you said, I sort took it for granted and now I'm gonna be 38 years old and I'm looking back and I'm like, wow, what a fun road up until this point. And I'm getting really to kind of live out the dream. Obviously I'm doing it in real time, but being able to be of the, have that awareness that this is happening and being able to take it in and not get so lost in that hustle, burnout culture I have. But being able to appreciate each step as it's happening. That's been really, really satisfying too.
Kim Rittberg (12:41):
And so I wanna get into the nitty gritty of it cuz I feel like a lot of times people look at other people's lives and they're like, I don't understand. How is this structured? So am I right to say? I'm just gonna boil it down to what you started in parenting journalism. You worked your way up at various parenting outlets. You, I assume were a writer and editor at the beginning, and then eventually you were the top person at these parenting outlets, which by the way is awesome. Congrats. Cause that's, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work to get there now. It's a lot of work. I was the head of it, but it took a lot to get there. So congrats. It
Bethany Braun Silva (13:12):
Took a lot, especially with a background in drama and not journalism or English.
Kim Rittberg (13:16):
<laugh> learn a lot of learning on the fly,
Bethany Braun Silva (13:19):
A ton of faking it till I made it. Going home after work and doing my online grammar 1 0 1 course. That's the nitty gritty, that's the truth of it. I was working with these amazing editors graduating from BAS and Columbia graduate degrees in journalism and I was like, didn't know what an M dash from an n dash was. And I was literally, and I think we talk, I love Gary Vayner, Chuck, I think I'm saying it right. We love him. He talks a lot about soft skills and I definitely got hired on my soft skills, being easy to work with, passionate, driven just a good personality, but then really not having a lot of the educational training to back it up. But I made sure that I learned on the fly, learned on the job, and then whatever I could learn on my own time. I did.
Kim Rittberg (14:06):
So remember that. I remember one of my first jobs, I was an associate producer at Inside Edition and I really knew, honestly, I communications at Penn, but I didn't really study journalism. I studied PR and writing and thinking it was really amazing. Theoretical freedom of speech was one of my classes. Great classes, but I didn't know that much about journalism. And one guest was like, I was trying to convince them to be in a news story and they said, I'll participate if the other person definitely won't participate. My boss is like, yeah, you can't make that promise. That's not what we do. I was like, oh, oh, of course, of course. Yeah, no, I can't make that promise. I obviously was so green. And then another funny thing is I worked as a writer and producer, regretted the ancestor in and she's like a serious lawyer, very smart, very detail oriented.
And I have a couple of lawyers in my family, but that's it. I mean, I never took a law class, I never thought I'd go to law school. That was not a goal of mine. And she would say something and I would have to Google, I'd be like, acqui, okay. State attorney general. Different than so much. I honestly had read so many Wick legal everything. I had to give myself a crash course in the first few months and I was so scared and stressed. And over time, I think once people realize that you are trying to catch up to get to where you are, they're a lot more accommodating. Yes, going in and not knowing stuff, but then not caring is one thing, but going in and not knowing stuff and trying to educate yourself I feel like makes up for it
Bethany Braun Silva (15:36):
A lot. Absolutely, absolutely. I've had a lot of grace. I mean I've had a lot of jerks too, but there have been a lot of mentors along the way who's kind of saw that in me and hired me or supported me throughout my career. So that is so important. I
Kim Rittberg (15:51):
Would also say to the soft skills though, soft skills. You can win people over with your personality and your hard work, but there are also hard skills that maybe relate to different fields. If you can write whether or not the M dash, you're a good writer, you can write Google, the grammar stuff, the writing is very core. That's a very important hard skill I think. So now I have a very, very important question. So you work your way up these parenting outlets and then at what point were you, I wanna work for myself or at what point when did you have the aha moment to work for yourself?
Bethany Braun Silva (16:22):
Oh my gosh, I think it was a lot of women. It was during the pandemic. So I started at Parenting Mag Parenting. It was not a magazine anymore, it was just online. I started there in January of 2019, started as a top writer. Wrote, wrote, wrote. I had a boss that left and then I took on the hell. So this is really my first time hemming a really amazing parenting brand. And we were relaunching it, redesigning it. So I got to do spend 2019 sort of building it all up working. But it was great cuz it was just so great. I was so proud of everything. I was helping to run this team, writing the content, just strategy, all of it. And then 2020 comes around and everything kind of went to shit. I, as we all know, I mean I was kind of demoted but not actually demoted. What I'm saying, it's,
Kim Rittberg (17:17):
We've all had those jobs where you're like, where's my seat? And they're like, it's in the basement, you're in office space, you're in a seat in office space. You're like, why am I in the basement now? It
Bethany Braun Silva (17:26):
Was horrible. So I went to just becoming, which is fine, but I was kind of just back to being a beat writer. And when I had worked so hard to become this brand, I had people, I don't know, maybe you wanna cut this, maybe I wanna cut this, I don't know. But I had people tell me just to keep my head down and work where I was coming. I felt like I was at the head of this parenting brand and really wanting to have ideas. And now the moms are, what does a landscape look like? I'm a mom, we're all home now. I'm home, I'm working. I have two kids. We were, the cries for help were so loud. And I just felt like I had a finger on the pulse of not only doing that for myself, but also have leading this parenting brand.
So things being what they were. I burnt myself to a crisp. I was spending eight hours a day standing in my kitchen, working and then getting my pre, at the time it was pre-K and second grade, the pre-K, it was just like a mess. It was such a mess. But I know that there's so many other people obviously who can relate to this. I burned myself out. I left that job, went over to another job, couldn't even function over there. Literally. I thought sort starting fresh at a new company. And again, another amazing parenting brand. And I'm being very transparent here it, if you look at my resume, you can guess where I went next or my LinkedIn. But again, I went in again with so many high hopes, such a positive attitude, lots of ideas and was just sign of told, we need to just here do this. And that wasn't resonating with me. It just sort of added to the burnout, added to the burnout, added to the burnout. And after that,
Kim Rittberg (19:06):
Because if you're gonna work that hard, you wanted to be able to have some creative control, be participating in ideas and not just being a doer, also being a thinker in that role.
Bethany Braun Silva (19:16):
And I'll Exactly. And I'll tell you one thing, Kim, after I left parenting, when I went over to the other job, when I was going through the hiring process, they said, oh my gosh, you have all this really great experience on camera ideas and things like that. We're gonna actually change the job description to hire. So based on what you're bringing to the table. So I was over the moon, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get to be really creative. And just I thought my world was gonna explode, go into this amazing brand. And they see me, they see me. Turns out they didn't really see me. They really did need the role that they were actually hiring for. So I sort of failed at that. And it was a mutual coming to terms, this isn't working, so I'm gonna go, it's fine. But then after that I stopped. I stopped. I was like, I'm gonna figure out my own schedule. I'm gonna freelance here and there. Obviously I had some great relationships in the industry. I was gonna work on my television stuff. I wanted to be an on-air expert but that doesn't pay <laugh>. So that
Kim Rittberg (20:16):
Was one of my questions. I'm like, what is it? When people say they're an on-air expert, I always like to ask the questions that nobody else will ask, where's the money in it?
Bethany Braun Silva (20:23):
Some people make really great money off of it by off of it, by working with brands and things like that. But me coming from this journalistic background, I really didn't feel comfortable doing that. So I mostly just did it to kind of build up exposure and authority in this space. Now I do, I'm able to make money in different ways working with other third party companies and things like that. But I wanted to just focus on tv. I was fortunate that I have a spouse who has a steady job and I was able to step back. I did some consulting for educational tech companies. I was able to just make my own schedule. But I think, and now this, we're talking, I'm trying to get my year straight. This was September, 2021. I just now feel like I'm coming out of the burnout on the other side.
It took about a year of me working, serving my own passions and creativity and doing what I want. And again, not a lot of money coming in but now I feel like, oh my gosh, I can take a breath of fresh air. I can set my boundaries professionally. I can do this podcast in the middle of the day. Knowing with deadlines looming, there's a control that I feel that I haven't felt in a very long time. I'm not really at the mercy of the private sector. And that takes a lot of, that takes a lot. I mean it takes a lot of grit and guts and I know the women are doing it. And that's why I love this podcast because it's just like, you gotta just take your life back and yeah, it's so scary. It's so scary. But I think with those skills and that passion, that drive and a community, you can do it. <laugh>.
Kim Rittberg (22:06):
So talk to me. Alright, first of all, thank you for the compliment. I do think I'm so, I wanted to do the show because I started meeting all these moms who were just saying, actually, if I peel back the layers, I'm really not that happy. Or I'm really not getting enough time with my kids. Or maybe I can make this sort of money, but on my own schedule. And I just started meeting all these moms and I was so inspired by them that I was like, I gotta keep doing this, I gotta keep doing this. And every four months I'm like, oh my God, I'm never gonna go to get another client. Oh my God, I'm never gonna get another client. It's always wrong. It's always untrue. It's always the imposter syndrome. You need to smash with a hammer. But I love hearing from you and other moms being honest about there's a point, or the burnout kicks in and you're like, I don't feel good. This doesn't feel right. So talk to me about over the past year, year and a half, the money's not making anywhere near what you were making before, I
Bethany Braun Silva (23:01):
Assume, right? No, I'm not. And I'm, I'm freelancing at a bunch of different places. So then there's the whole, oh now I gotta pay my estimated taxes and come January, February when I go see my accountants, what is that gonna look like? Am I, but those are, for me, it's a trade off I'm willing to make right now. That might not always be the case. I'm actually finding a really great partnership and home at Wild Sky Media. They are. And I think it's because they've sort, so many things have happened to that company internally, externally, without saying too much. Especially cuz of the pandemic that it's just, I feel really good there and I'm honest. How many times have we had to lie about my kid has a dentist appointment, my son right now. Oh
Kim Rittberg (23:51):
My god. When people ask me why I'm doing this, I'm like, I'm not gonna lie ever again. Right about my kid having a dentist appointment. Cuz you know what, when I have a client I just say I'm not available at that time. No one's business. Why I can't it matter. But yeah, I'm bummed lying about dentist appointments.
Bethany Braun Silva (24:07):
The thank you that, I mean that's a great tagline, right? <laugh>, I
Kim Rittberg (24:13):
Start a, we're gonna start t-shirt collection. I'm done lying about dentist appointments.
Bethany Braun Silva (24:18):
Merch. Merch. I love it.
It's so true. But who said that was okay? Who is the, I guess it comes from that masculine thing in this private sector, but women, even if you're not a mom, it's like why am I lying to other women about my kid having a dentist appoint or emergencies? My kid chipped his freaking tooth last year half off. And during that time I was not full-time employee. So it was not that, it was fine, but I didn't could go be with him and rush into the rush the dentist. But I would've lied my freaking head off. In my previous jobs, I would've said, I don't know what I would've said. But kids, their kids <laugh>, they need us. I don't know. But
Kim Rittberg (25:06):
Although sometimes I feel like the new generation of workers is actually much more open, I would have a staffer email me that they have PMs and can't come in. I need a
Bethany Braun Silva (25:16):
Mental health day.
Kim Rittberg (25:18):
I was like, so take a sick day. Okay, I have problem that, wow. I came into work one day with a concussion. I'm not even kidding, I just wasn't sure if it was a concussion. I came with ice, my boss at Fox, she was like, I think you need to go
Bethany Braun Silva (25:35):
Home. Your eyes are dilating. <laugh>.
Kim Rittberg (25:37):
Yeah. I'm like, yeah, maybe I should go to the doctor. She's like, you need to go to the doctor. I was like, yeah, okay. I'm like the opposite. I was like, would never, before kids, I would not call in sick. I would not, but now I'm better at
Bethany Braun Silva (25:50):
Something that one, if you wanna share these stories. I started a job for weeks after an emergency and they started a new job. I interviewed pregnant and they gave me a start date and it was actually two weeks after my planned C-section. The baby came two weeks early, so spot me two more weeks. And I said yes. And I was there leaky boobs. They didn't have a pumping room for me. And I was so green that I was kind of like, okay doing that because I just really love, I thought it was a great opportunity. Fuck them. Sorry, <laugh>. Like it's Wait,
Kim Rittberg (26:26):
What? So, but you didn't feel like you could say, oh wait, I obviously need more than four weeks.
Bethany Braun Silva (26:32):
No, I didn't feel like they made me feel like I was lucky to be hired. We're giving you this job, this is an opportunity, so this is when we need you. And I said, okay. And I actually, I was scheduled for an onboarding orientation the day I gave birth. And I was like, I'm actually giving birth, but I'll see you in four weeks.
Kim Rittberg (26:52):
<laugh>. I love that. Oh my God. Wow, wow. The
Bethany Braun Silva (26:55):
Things we put ourselves through. So
Kim Rittberg (26:57):
Anyway, my God, okay, yeah. I'm like, yeah, that reminds me of I got a paid maternity leave of three weeks and
Bethany Braun Silva (27:05):
Oh my God.
Kim Rittberg (27:05):
I was like, that's totally uncool. But also I'm taking off 12 weeks cuz New York state lets you take 12 weeks is mostly unpaid or pays a hundred dollars a week or whatever. But very, I think that was actually one of the breaking points for me to realize the job that I was in while I liked the job and I liked the people when it got bought, I was getting three weeks of paid maternity leave. I was a leader, I was like a leader that's like the CEO was like, you're so great, I'm, if I'm so great, why won't you pay my maternity leave? So I think the idea of recognizing a company that those are their actions. Actions speak out of the words. So if you're giving me three weeks of paid leave, you're never gonna let me work from home Fridays. You're never gonna understand when my kids' tooth is shipped. And so I think a lot of times it's, it is that understanding of how do you want your life to look? And even if you like your job, and even if you like where you are, it might, it might have run its course and it's just not compatible with the life you want. And so now I am making a life that is compatible with my life. I'm making a career that is compatible with my life. And then only quarterly do I question everything I'm doing. But generally I'm super happy <laugh>. Right?
Four
Bethany Braun Silva (28:14):
Times a year you'll take it.
Kim Rittberg (28:15):
Yeah, three times a year. I tell myself, no one's ever gonna pay me money again, but then whatever. I just won a bunch of big awards actually. So I'm proud of myself, so I'm gonna Congratulations. Thank you. I am proud of myself. So it feels validation for sure. Okay. What does a work week look like to you right now? And then where do you envision yourself? So I feel like right now, would I be right to say you're sort of in a transition stage?
Bethany Braun Silva (28:40):
I guess so, although I do find myself getting a bit more grounded because I found this amazing company I'm doing the things that I wanna be doing and making a fair, I'm making money's coming in. Let's just say that it's not exactly what we want, but it's good and good for now. But yeah, so the transition was, it was a major transition this last year, year and a half. And now I'm sort of coming out, so we might talk about this later, so forgive me if I'm jumping around, but we had the great resignation. I'm writing this book about this great reemergence, how are we coming out of this hell that we went through this, I call it a betrayal, it's a very strong word, but 4 million women, how to leave the workforce, our systems, our community, our country. It feels like a betrayal. So how are we reemerging? And that's for me, I'm sort of doing that right now. I'm reemerging you with how I wanna run my business, run my life, how I wanna relate to my family, how I wanna relate to the world professionally. So it's all just kind of like, yes, it's still a transition, but a much more ground. I'm in a much more grounded place
Kim Rittberg (29:56):
Then. So where do you see yourself next year or the year after? What if you could put yourself in a year or three years ahead, what will you be doing?
Bethany Braun Silva (30:04):
Well, what I would love to be doing is of spreading the message of this book, of how women can reemerge with these new rules. And I'm not really writing the rules. I'm just wanna encourage women to take ownership of these rules and how they can either quit that job, start that business, leave that relationship, or nurture the ones they already have. It's really kind of about taking ownership of their life. So I wanna be spreading that message, whether it's through the book on stage at conferences. I would love to be a paid public speaker. That's sort of my next goal. That's on my vision board right now. Speak going out. I'm saying it to you for the first time. So I would love to go out and spread this message to rooms full of women. I mean moms too because I do feel the system is, we're not there if Rej Soja, she talks about this all the time. We, it's just not supported the way that we need to be. So until that happens and we can fight hell to make that happen, how are we gonna do it for ourselves? And that's what I wanna really spread, be on stage, talk about it in a book, maybe write another book, figure it out. <laugh>,
Kim Rittberg (31:14):
I feel like you saying this out loud. I'm like, wow, we are so mentally aligned. Cuz I, I'm like that. I think I applaud the people who are working super duper hard. I see Catherine Goldstein of the double shift. I'm like, yes, fight for us. And I'm like, ugh, I'm just trying to get through the day. Yeah, I believe that societally we need to do so much more. And I think on a micro level, I'm like, how do I take control of my little household? How do I have a little more love and romance left for my husband? How do I have more patience and presence with my children? And so I agree with you. It's like societally, yeah, there's so much we need to do. I will sign those conditions and I will donate money and I will show up at the rallies, but I'm also in my own way.
I'm gonna run my own business and I'm gonna hire moms, I'm gonna hire dads, I'm gonna hire people, I'm gonna hire queer people, whatever. I'm going to do what I can do on a little tiny way. But yeah, I still think it's not that much support. So until there is, I'm just gonna make my way in it. And I love what you're saying about supporting other people cuz that's why I'm doing mom's exit interview. I just wanna show people, there's all these ways to do it and there's no one path. And for some people you jump off and you make millions of dollars. Not really millions, but you do great. But for most people it's a bit of a struggle. But then when you find your footing, you're like, oh, this feels good. There is some income, there is maybe good income, there is confidence and satisfaction and balance. Definitely more balance.
Bethany Braun Silva (32:49):
And I do feel also to your point, there's a lot of, we have a lot of stuff put on us already. The men, we talk about the mental load of motherhood, this navigating our careers, our own fulfillment, all of that. And now of course, like you said, we wanna support, we wanna make that change. But I also feel like the change can be made by starting right here, starting at home. If you and I go out and we live our lives and plan our careers and own our fucking shit the way ever, however we wanna do it, we do what we wanna do. That's the shift too. So that is also what I think. So of course we need those regimens, we need all those people out there talking and advocating for us and we stand behind them. But it's like I cannot really add another thing to my plate right now. So I'm just gonna move, keep moving that one foot in front of the best way that I know how. And I think also, and I can never get hard on be myself for that because I do believe also that the shift will comes from that too.
Kim Rittberg (33:46):
Bethany, you are a huge parenting expert. You've been doing this for so many years. Can I get your top three parenting tips?
Bethany Braun Silva (33:52):
Sure. Okay. So my number one tip would be more than you think you do. When I tell my friends that are pregnant and they're freaking out and they're like, everything that you need to know about this baby you already know and what you don't know, the baby's gonna teach you. So it is, and rather than naming it parent led, child led parenting, it's kind of just be open and receptive and just try not to panic everything that you need to know. And that will stay with you when they're 5, 10, 15, 20. You know how to parent your child. That's why they're your child. That's number one. Number two would be a boundaries. These are huge. So my parents are local, my in-laws are local. So I've had to set boundaries and I felt so bad about it for so long because I'm an only child. I'm extremely close to my parents, extremely.
It's very codependent. Sometimes I adore them. I am their life because it, it's just true. But you have to set those boundaries because no, again, no one's gonna parent your kid the way that you need to parent them and that they need to be parented. And even with the most well meaning, input and advice, you have to set those boundaries. Sometimes I set those boundaries to protect my kids too, because a lot of stuff just comes in constantly. So don't be afraid to set the boundaries and maybe not see the in-laws if they're local that some days see your own parents and it's really just your home. It's set those boundaries for your home. And then the third thing is, oh God, I'm practicing this one daily. But it's really just to have fun and stay present. It is so hard, especially on those stressful days when you are overwhelmed.
But when I can just take a deep breath and let it go and just see my kids almost objectively watch them in their natural state. I mean just, it's so corny, but I'm literally overwhelmed with love. And then I just get on the floor and we play and we laugh and we're silly. So making those moments for fun, and this is sort of a muscle that needs to be worked out. I feel like, especially as moms, because it isn't not for all of us, it's not really, we don't do that on autopilot because we're so busy with the house, with everything going on, with the business, with the work, with everything, and just even worrying about our kids. So it's a muscle. So I would suggest practicing that, getting that going when you can, being present, be aware, and making room for fun.
Kim Rittberg (36:15):
I love that. I have the thought the other day of, remember when you were kids and there was that stereotype of the naggy wife? Yes. And now that I'm a wife, I'll be real in college, my nickname was fun, Kim. I am fun. I like to hang out. And now my to-do list is 85 points long. And I'm not naggy, but I don't have as much time for fun and lightness. And you know what I love? I love your tip. Cuz my daughter just gets up on the couch and she's like, she's very poised and she's not a wild, crazy one, but she could be fun. She gets up, she's like, let's have a dance party on the couch. I'm put the pillows back after. But I'm like, yes, yes, we're gonna have a dance party on the couch. And we all just, the to-do list is a way and we blast the music, we would dance party. And you're right, it's having that fun and finding that fun. And we all know how to fun. We've all been fun at various points, maybe still. But tapping into that, cuz I think parenting can be really fun. But you gotta just delete the to-do list or put it down or shove it into the closet or make your partner do it while you're doing the dance party <laugh>. Exactly.
Bethany Braun Silva (37:29):
And part of that is don't be hard on yourself if your daughter, if you're like, no babe, I can't do a dance party right now, but I'll watch you. You can't be hard on yourself.
Kim Rittberg (37:38):
Just no, I don't think. No, I agree with you. But I also think it is on us to say yes when our kids want us to, because especially as they get older, they're 14, they're 17, they're not gonna ask for that. And I do think, listen, if I have a big work call in one minute, no, maybe I could have a dance party. But if it's a time where you can or they wanna go for a bike ride with you, they want that time. Everything can wait cuz that to-do list is never done. Literally. You're never done with that to-do list. I swear my Google doc is 88 pages long and it's not all family stuff. It's ridiculous. I'm never gonna get through it, don't worry. It's okay. I only work on the first two pages of it, but the idea is it's always gonna be there. And so I love that type of view for you. And now, what is the name, do you have the name of your book that's gonna come out?
Bethany Braun Silva (38:26):
It's called First Comes Love.
Kim Rittberg (38:29):
Okay. Okay, wait, now I'm just gonna ask you. Okay, so now I want you to tell me a little bit about your book, which I'm super excited about, and I want you to give me a few takeaways from the book.
Bethany Braun Silva (38:41):
So the book is called First Comes Love, and it's really is about what I was talking about before that reemergence, I was a mother before I was a wife. I had this career before without any training stuff that we've talked about on the podcast. And so I was always kind of prone to making my own rules, navigating my life for better, for worse, definitely a lot of mistakes along the way. And I don't know if it's cuz I'm an only child or what it was, or I had a strong sense of self. I kind of always bet on myself and I find that I was able to be successful in my own time, in my own way. Lots of frustrations, of course. But this book really is about post pandemic. How are women, how can I encourage women to do the same thing? And I talk to nine women in the book.
We spotlight nine women that I've talked to, and then we spotlight actually another nine famous aspirational women and how they're kind of breaking rules, making their own, how they've lived life, their way to serve really themselves, which in turn of course we know serves their families, their communities and things like that. So the main takeaway really from this book is how to create a life you love. And I know we probably heard that term so many times, but it really is about creating it your way, betting on yourself, and taking ownership without shame or guilt and just making those choices.
Kim Rittberg (40:04):
Man, Bethany, this is so aligned with mom's exit interview and everything I talk about after you're saying it, I'm like, yes, yes you can. My mom has always said, she's like, pitch mom's exit interview is creating the life you want. I was like, oh, that sounds so lofty. But she's like, aren't you doing that? Yeah. I was like, oh, you're right. That is actually what I want people to do. I just, whatever that life looks like, you can do it. Absolutely, you can do it. Not every day is easy, but it'll be worth it in a year, in a two years, you'll look back and be like, oh my God. And even if, I also think even sometimes for people who are in full-time jobs, it's even, can you get a work from home day? Can you get a half day on X day? It doesn't always have to be, oh my God, leave your job and do something else.
It's just that awareness is, I think the same about parenting. If you're even thinking about how you're parenting, you're probably a good parent. And it's the same with work. If you're even processing what you really want out of your schedule or out of your responsibilities at work, maybe you want a promotion, maybe you wanna do more impactful work. Maybe you wanna work from home to get more time with your kids. Once you start thinking about that and then you push yourself to ask for that, which is something a lot of us women especially, but a lot of us struggle with is asking for what we want. So I think it's whatever structure you're in, whether you're at a company or working for yourself, but asking those questions, what do I really want? Is it that person's life? Is that sort? What do I want it to look like?
Is it that sort of schedule? And then taking the steps to get there. And I don't know, it can seem like a lot of work, but once you start doing it, you're like, no, no, no, this feels right. This feels right. This year feels better than last year. And then that year felt better than the year before. Yes. And oh my God, I say this as we talked earlier today, I say this as having jobs that I would go to the take a walk and cry and come back and be like, I'm good, I'm good, I'm fine, I'm fine. So, okay. I haven't cried at all in the past three years that I ran my own business. So a win <laugh>,
Bethany Braun Silva (41:58):
A total win. And also the book is, it's not just how you said this kind of lofty big ideas. We have research, we have tips, practical. You're gonna walk away from reading this book with a few things that you can do right now for yourself, for your career, and for our relationship. And Kim, I would love to interview you for the book <laugh>.
Kim Rittberg (42:16):
Oh, I love that. Yeah. Look at this. Get it. I love it. And by the way, I actually don't think it's lofty. I think my mom, who she herself used to be a journalist, she's like a mom's exit interviewer. She's like a poet at a lawyer and she used to be a journalist and she hosted a cable news show when we were little. She's a Jane of all trades, but I actually don't think it's lofty. I think the way she spun it, I thought, oh, that sounds lofty. But the truth is, it really is. We should all be trying to make our life look more like what we want. And whatever those steps are, try to just do even little baby steps to get there. And then the baby steps, you could bronze them and put them on your shelf and be like, this is my baby step to make my business <laugh>. Actually, that's a good idea. Bethany. We mech merch ideas in the shelf, we're like merching it out. And then lastly, one question I like to ask everybody, Bethany, are you happy?
Bethany Braun Silva (43:10):
I am, I am. And if you had asked me that last year, I probably would've said yes. And going like, oh fuck no, sorry, I'm cursing a lot. You can edit it out. But I am happy. I'm happy. And you know why? I'm happy camp because I'm doing my own damn thing. And that is why I'm parenting my kids the way I wanna parent them. And it's challenging. I told you this morning, I drag my seven year old to school, but I, it's okay. I'm doing things the way that I wanna do them. And when I'm not feeling aligned with myself, I can recognize it and I can change it. So I'm not saying it's all rainbows, butterflies, I'm living in a perfect alignment. No, hell no. But I've done that self work, I've done the career work, I've done the relationship work. So I know when I'm out of alignment and I know and I can do it however long it takes, a month, a week, I can go get back to myself. And again, that's sort of what my book is about. Getting back to that self-love, that's really where it all starts. And so that was a very long answer. I am happy. I'm happy cuz I'm doing my own thing.
Kim Rittberg (44:11):
I love it. Anything you wish you knew earlier or advice you'd give to another woman?
Bethany Braun Silva (44:16):
Advice I would give to another woman. Okay. Yes. I think it's sort of very in line with what we were talking about is yeah, the squeaky wheel gets the oil right. We are so afraid to ask for what we want. I was a 31 year old mother starting a new job leaking at my desk and so afraid to ask for a pumping room. And they knew I was four weeks postpartum and I was going to pump in the bathroom my milk. I don't know. Sorry, this, if you wanna ask me this question again, can, but no, I think
Kim Rittberg (44:52):
It's the perfect answer. No, because I think squeaky wheel, both when you're leaking and when you're not, it's the important thing is what's the worst that's gonna happen if you ask for something? Yeah. Not like you're gonna get fired. I think we all are so afraid to ask. But what is the risk? I'm the same way. Yeah. I mean there's so many promotions I didn't ask for. I'd say yes to things too quickly without stopping. Yeah. And saying, thank you for that. Thank you for offering this to me. Let me get back to you. I always was like, yes, yes. Whatever you want. Okay. And just if I back, I would pause and I love your advice about Squeaky wheel and with or without the milk. I think that's a great lesson
Bethany Braun Silva (45:32):
For everybody. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I don't know what that's wrapped up and tied into self-worth or just like these ideals of women just not having a voice that we feel like we can use. But you do have a voice. Ask her what you want and hopefully you get it. <laugh>.
Kim Rittberg (45:47):
Yeah. Bethany, this was such a great chat. We have merch, we have your story. I love chatting with you. You could check out Bethany on Instagram at Bethany Braun Silva and her site is bethanybraun.com. Bethany had mentioned burnout and that got me thinking. I wanna dive a little deeper into burnout. What is it? How do you tackle it? So I'm bringing in Jennifer Khalaf, a holistic health coach and founder of Thrive Hive Wellness. Not only is Jennifer very smart and she helps women, she's also really tough. She played on the soccer team that my husband and I played. We played a bunch of 20 year olds in spandex. Oh, and we won. So here's Jen.
Jennifer Khalaf (46:29):
What is burnout? Well, it can present differently for different people and you'd be hard pressed to find a mom who doesn't present as a little burnt out after these last couple of years. But here are some common symptoms, exhaustion. I'm talking that bone tired in your eyeballs, physical and mental exhaustion, poor quality sleep, not being able to fall asleep, being tired and wired or having disrupted sleep patterns, mood issues such as increased anxiety, depression, reactivity, resentment, snapping at our children and partners more frequently, having a hard time focusing due to our racing mind, hormonal imbalance, frequently getting sick, or just a general sense of feeling like you're drowning. Now we are all going to identify with these symptoms at some point or another, but if you're experiencing these regularly, you could be dealing with burnout. So what can we do to mitigate these issues? Again, what works best is largely dependent on where the individual's pain points are.
But these are three things that work for everyone. Number one, sleep. Think of sleep like the foundation of a house. Without it, the house sinks. Poor sleep or lack of sleep affects everything from our nervous systems to our hormones and digestion to our cognitive function. Quality sleep is a necessity period. A common problem I see is moms staying up late on their phones, scrolling social media or watching TV because they want me time. Totally understandable. There are not enough hours in the day. The reality is the stuff keeping us awake is often more numbing than it is adding to our cups. So it's just perpetuating the burnout cycle. Every hour of sleep before midnight is worth two. After midnight perhaps shift that me time to earlier. Have a more peaceful start to the day. There are many different ways to make space for entertainment, connection, downtime, and sleep.
I can't stress this enough. Number two, eat good quality, protein and fat at every meal. This could be animal or plant, preferably organic, especially if it's animal. This helps keep our blood sugar balance and helps not add more fuel to the cortisol fire. Of course, you wanna balance diet high in antioxidants, think eat the rainbow. But I find women, especially when stressed are living on their kids' food scraps, coffee and a prayer, and it's just physically exacerbating the burnout. Having quality protein and fat helps sort of balance that blood sugar so that we're not having the same sort of dips throughout the day. Number three, have an e break for your nervous system. We cannot and will not stop the stressors of life or of being a pattern a parent in these modern times, but we can have practices that help reset our nervous systems so that we're not perpetually operating and fight, flight or freeze.
For some people that's meditation. And I'm gonna put my wave to all the friends who feel that they're allergic to that. There are so many forms of meditation, even for those whose minds race at a pace that's NASCAR worthy for other people. Things like breathwork exercises. The 4, 7, 8 breath literally takes 57 seconds and helps ground you. Putting your legs up the wall, listening to a funny podcast. All of these things send signals to our brains that we are in fact safe and not actually being chased by a sabertooth tiger. There are so many other ways and facets of burnout, recovery, including exercise, prioritizing your own joy, story and boundary work. But these three steps are where to begin. Prioritize yourself, mama, because as however high functioning you are, your health and your happiness matter.
Kim Rittberg (50:01):
Thanks so much to Jen. You can check her out on Instagram at Thrive Hive Wellness. Here is when we feature a real mom life in its happiest, funniest, or grossest moments. And if you wanna submit yours, make sure to sign up for our newsletter and visit moms exit interview.com.
Beth Knight (50:18):
Hi, my name is Beth Knight and I'm a publicity strategist. I take entrepreneurs from undiscovered to unforgettable. One of the most gratifying mommy moments I've had recently is my son is a freshman at Rutgers and he's taken an intro to management class and he is getting an A. So I was like, okay, what are you doing right? Why are you getting an A? What are you learning? Like I'm interested in it because he's my son. And he said, mom, you know what, I'm not learning much cuz everything I needed, I learned from listening to you. I've been an entrepreneur for about 15 years in the digital space. Didn't realize how much he was actually listening. But now seeing what he can create in his own life is just amazing that not only did he get to see me be a good example, but the information that he glean from it, he can be successful in his own life too.
Kim Rittberg (51:13):
Thank you so much for listening. We wanna hear from you. Tell us what topics you want us to cover, and what questions you have for upcoming shows and experts. We will read everyone and we will use them. You can find us everywhere. Go to www.kimrittberg.com. Scroll down to find the contact button, or you can DM me on Instagram at Kim Rittburg. Or you can leave your feedback right inside your review in the podcast app. Please follow the show, an Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen and leave review in a five star rating. And don't forget to share it with people who will find it valuable. It's truly meant to be a resource. And this is Mom's Exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Rittberg. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. John Horowitz is our editor, and Aliza Friedlander is our producer and publicist.