EP. 44 / Real Housewife Heather Dubrow On Sending Her Kids To College, Her ‘Depressed’ Years at Home + Her Craziest TV Show Moments
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Real Housewife of Orange County, entrepreneur and mom of 4 Heather Dubrow discusses the years she was depressed, the craziest time filming the show, what she doesn't show on tv, her weirdest job and so much more. She also gets very open about parenting and what it's like to take her oldest off to college.
Plus Kim shares what happened after the podcast with Heather that left her scrambling and cursing technology!
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In this episode you will learn:
The importance of giving your kids freedom and trust
Why you should respect your kids’ privacy especially on social media
How to use the resources available to you to balance life
Show Takeaways:
“It's our job to give our kids space to grow up and figure out who they are.”
“I have a really close, amazing relationship with each of my kids but each of the relationships is definitely different because of who they are, who I am, and the way they communicate and share.”
“You can't show everyone everything, you got to save some things for your own life and mental well-being and especially with the kids, they need their privacy too.”
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EPISODE LINKS:
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Follow Heather Dubrow on Instagram!
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim (00:02):
If you're the parent of a college bound student, you're probably feeling mixed emotions right now as acceptance letters and financial aid offers arrive, excited and proud of your student, but also stressed thinking about how you're going to pay for it all. Take my advice and check out college AV student loans. They are the emotional support system to guide you through the college journey. From start to finish. With College Ave, you'll get free access to tools and resources that make the financial road to college easier. Like their student loan calculator that lets you see how a future loan can work for you and your budget. Plus, every month they give away a thousand dollars scholarship to one lucky family. Entering is fast and easy and winning could have a big impact on your college expenses. Visit college ave.com/exit interview. Trust me, it's a better student loan experience. There's no purchase necessary to enter or win the scholarship. See official contest rules for details@collegeave.com slash exit interview real housewife of Orange County. Heather Dubrow is here. She's talking about the years she was depressed, the craziest time filming the show, what she doesn't show on tv, her weirdest job and so much more.
(01:14):
This is Mom's exit interview the show for moms who want to craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational bombs across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms, and they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim Whitford. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses. They're taking back control. Join me and make work work for you instead of the other way around.
(02:17):
You can hear my voice is a little ragged, a little deeper than usual. I was in Vegas speaking to 500 real estate agents, teaching them how to grow with video and be more confident on camera. It was so fun. They learned so much and were telling me how transformative the sessions were. It was amazing. I was probably the only person in Las Vegas, not gambling, but that's how it goes. And we talk a lot on mom's exit interview about balance and I wanted to share that. People sometimes ask me how I balance it all. I want to be clear, this amazing opportunity to speak and teach so many people that went really, really well was right in the middle of my kid's spring break. And ideally that doesn't happen, but it did happen. And so I talked about with my husband and we made a plan.
(03:01):
And when opportunity knocks you answer. So I do like to share the good, bad and the ugly of growing your business. I'm sure so many of you know it. I see your messages and to the ones of you on the show, you share your stories. So it's not always so perfect. We know that. And speaking of a great month, I just learned that I got a Webby Honor from a project I made for my client. It gets better. It's like the Oscars of the internet. They actually call it that, by the way, not me. But anyway, it was a really profound and important video series. It was 18 videos that went on their website. It's sort of the glossary or fundamentals of understanding L G B T Q. So it was just a very impactful and meaningful project. So it just, it's very cool to get an award for it. And speaking of video, super exciting if you are stressed out and overwhelmed who isn't about getting on social to grow your business. I have my next round of video bootcamp launching. So I take my 15 years in big media and marketing, Netflix, US Weekly People magazine to teach you how to make amazing video without burnout. How to truly attract clients and show up the star that you are. This is some of what my past students have said.
Shannon (04:10):
I loved Kim's class. I'm so glad I invested in it.
Therese (04:16):
I saw my average real view go from a hundred to actually hitting 13,000 on one of my reels. And that was because of the fact that I applied a lot of the things that she taught during this course. If someone was considering taking Kim's class, I would say, hell yes, what the hell are you waiting on?
Kim (04:35):
And you can get so much information on my site, kim ripper.com, the courses and coaching tab has all the information or you can always message me on social. I'm very friendly as you know. And today I am so excited. I met Heather Dubrow when I was on her podcast this summer and we had such a blast talking. I was like, when can you be on mom's exit interview? And so finally she is here. Heather shares her craziest moment during filming where she and Terri are living her weirdest job. She gets very open about parenting and what it's like to take her oldest off to college.
Heather (05:08):
Oh my gosh. So what's so funny is every time Terry and I are out and about, people come up to us and they're like, how's la? And we're like, we have a move. We're still in Orange County. Because I think the misconception is we had bought this apartment in LA and then 10 days into escrow, Josh Altman calls us and blah blah. And all of a sudden we sold our house. So I think people thought it happened the opposite way. But that apartment is a two bedroom. It's fabulous. It's two bedrooms. That was for me and Terry for some day or a little pieta tear. There's no room for the kids that's like, it's not a family home. So to be honest with you, would I have bought that place if I had known I was going to sell my house? But now we have it and so whatever.
(05:54):
So I have no idea where we're going, what we're doing. But the place we're in now, this temporary rental, I've been joking, it's like a bachelor pad. It's all poured concrete. There's no dining table, there's only a pool table and it's hilarious. And the guy that owns it did such a nice job and he's such a sweet guy. Literally we had to be out of the house in three weeks and this was the only available rental. So I found a new rental. We're moving to a new rental breaking news and I took it for a year because it's funny being where we are right now, it's a different part of town than we've lived in and I'm really enjoying it. So actually it's kind of fun. We're figuring out where we really want to be and where we really want to go and what makes us happy and how much space do we really need.
Kim (06:43):
Okay, I'm going to talk about college. Oh my God, mazeltov. Thank you. How is it feeling going through that next stage?
Heather (06:52):
It's great. I heard so many stories and some people are like, oh, there's so mean to you before they go because they're preparing you to not want them anymore. Some people are like, I can't stand to, my children are all leaving. I feel like I done a good job with them and I want to watch them fly. And although it was odd to not have them around for the first few months, they came home for the holidays and they were both home for a month, which was great. And everyone hung out and missed each other. My son is closer to home so we see him more often. But my daughter's farther. They're doing great. It's fun to visit them. It's such, it's all interesting. I think the one thing though that I did not warn them about with college and I've been having this conversation with a lot of my friends whose kids are in college too, is how shitty the first year of college can be.
(07:48):
How so? I mean it's an adjustment. You're moving to a new place. Think about the main stressors of life moving, starting a new friend group, joining a new school, maybe switching cities. All those things are very stressful and they're doing them all at once. It's hard to live away from home, especially when you have a good home life. I mean I know there's some of us and I hope my mother doesn't listen to this cause then she'll be pissed. But I mean there was some of us, the moment we got our license, we were out the moment we could leave the house, we were gone. But our kids, they like us and we have a great relationship plus Covid kids. So these kids were used to being home for longer.
Kim (08:32):
I forgot about that. And it's interesting how my reaction to you saying college sucks. I loved my parents, I had a great relationship. But by the time senior year rolled around, I could not wait to get the hell out of my town. I'm from the suburbs in Long Island and I was like, where's the next thing? I need a bigger place, a bigger stage, a bigger pool. And I was so ready. So I actually forgot. But you're right, it's a huge life stage. Life change obviously for you. Huge for them. I forgot about the possible negative things because I was so excited to just get the hell out of here just like you. I
Heather (09:07):
Was too. I came from Chappaqua, which was great, but it was like small town, boring. They roll up the sidewalks at nine. I was ready for to get into my career, do the next thing and all of that. But I mean I got there and I had a full meltdown. I gained 30 pounds really quickly. I hated what I was doing. I was a musical theater major, which was my life's blood. And all of a sudden I was like, am I even supposed to be here? What am I doing with my life? I hate this. And I didn't hate it. It was just a very difficult adjustment for me. And it was hard. I mean I think part of it was sort of the dichotomy of wanting to be a part of the social scene and the sororities and all that and that the theater scene was very a apart from that. I think part of it, if I'm perfectly honest, was you go from a big fish in a small pond and then you get into a bigger pond and you're this little fish and everyone's talented and everyone was the star of their shows and everyone was this and all of a sudden you don't know where you fit it. It was hard for me.
Kim (10:09):
That is interesting. Speaking of your children, I'd love to know how's it been watching your children evolve and living, telling their stories online? And I know that's a big part of why you wanted to remain on the show and tell their stories. What's it been like to watch them evolve?
Heather (10:23):
As parents, it's our job to give our kids space to grow up and figure out who they are. It's a hard road to walk for people like you and me who talk for a living and want to share everything, but you can't because it's their stories to tell. And as much as you'd like to talk about every detail of everything, it's definitely a line to walk. I have found over the years, not just with your sexuality and stuff like that, but just anything, their privacy versus sharing versus what's public on television and what's not. I will say that I think we have always struck a really good balance except for the cringey photos they say I post. That's why I'm trying to be better at that and be respectful of things they don't want posted. But I really am proud of them and how they've really at the appropriate time for them, told their stories and helped so many people.
Kim (11:20):
Yeah, I think it's so cool what you're doing. And I don't know if I told you, but I've worked on a bunch of projects with it gets better. So I executive produced several different video series for them. They're a lgbtq plus nonprofit. And it's like, it's just so rewarding to even be a part of helping tell people's stories and helping them be more confident. Cause it's aimed at 13 to 18 year old kids. It's been very rewarding to be a part of them.
Heather (11:44):
Yeah, that's great.
Kim (11:45):
And how's it been for you as a mom to be able to support your kids going through that?
Heather (11:50):
As a parent, you just want your kids to be what? Happy, successful, functioning, all of that. And it's great to watch them fly and figure things out. I think the thing I'm most proud of is my relationship with each of them. I have a close, really amazing relationship with each of them, but are each of the relationships is definitely different because of who they are, because of who I am, because of the way they communicate and share thing. That was the most important to me as a parent. I really never cared about having sports stars and supermodel. And you know what? I don't know any of that. I really just wanted to have really good open relationships with my kids. I didn't want to be anyone's best friend. I want to be a parent. But I really love it and I love how as they grow up, your relationship shifts more from parent to friend. I'll say still parent, but on a different level and you can communicate with them on a different level. I'm just really proud of that.
Kim (12:56):
I'm laughing when you said I don't want to be their friend. This is very funny. My mom raised me and my two brothers were all 18 months apart. So she had three teenagers all in high school lying to her and sneaking around all at the same time. We were good kids, but even good kids to live their own life. And basically her book is called 35 Things Your Teens Won't Tell You, so I will. And her whole thing is what you just said, I'm not your friend. The family's not a democracy. The kid's goal is to be sneaky and lie to you. And I was like, actually mom, that's like the most astute thing you've ever said. Her whole book is right. She came out with the book when we were in our twenties and I was like, yeah, you're right. Even us, a students were still lying to our parents to sneak out.
Heather (13:39):
Well of course maybe it's a generational thing. But my mom was like, you have to be home by, I don't even remember. It was really a ridiculous time. Like 11 at 17. And it was like, huh, do people have sex before 11 o'clock at night? People do drugs, they have sex, they drink. But what it did to us, same as you, me and my sister, we would come home at the appropriate time, wait for them to go to bed and then we'd sneak out of the house and we'd stay out until 4:00 AM. And so with my kids, when my oldest two got into those teenage years in high school that they never had curfews, they never had any of it. Because I said to them, look, you're good kids. I trust you. Don't do anything stupid. If you need me, call me and I will give you as much freedom as you're able to handle. So here it is. And they never disappointed me, ever.
Kim (14:34):
And did you get those calls? Cause I think about that too. I lived a very normal childhood. I did well in school, I played sports, whatever. But I still snuck out. I still drank before the legal age. 18. 18. Just kidding. Did your kids call you and say, I'm in this situation. Can you get me? Did that happen?
Heather (14:54):
It didn't. And they never really needed that. But they were always really smart about how they were going, where they were going, who's driving, who's not driving. I was really impressed by their just ability to go, okay, where are we going out tonight? And who's driving and who's taking keys and who They were always really responsible. And you know what? When you have Uber these days, it really makes no sense for anyone to even be thinking about having a problem. But yeah, they were really, I never really got calls like that because the two of them were very responsible.
Kim (15:34):
I need a little more color on what you did when you snuck out as a teenager.
Heather (15:39):
Yeah. So we would, all right, but this is so funny. Oh my God. So we would sneak out probably at 1230. We'd creep down. There was always the one squeaky stare right on the staircase. You had to avoid the squeaky one. And then we'd get out and we would have our boyfriends pick us up at the end of the street. And then we'd go somewhere, someone's house we'd go out to, sometimes we'd go out to a club in Manhattan. We'd do all kinds of things so bad. But I always felt so bad if, God forbid, my mom woke up and saw us not in our beds. Remember there were no cell phones at this time. So I always left a note and I'll never forget. So I would leave a note like, hi, we're fine. We're over at so-and-so's house or whatever. And I would leave a phone number. And one night we were over at so-and-so's house and the phone rang and it was my mother. Oh yeah, not good.
Kim (16:31):
And their parents didn't know you were there, so she woke them
Heather (16:34):
Up. I feel like their parents were out of town. And so we were overhanging out at that person's house. So that happened once. That was not good then. So we started sleeping at other people's house. I sleep at my friend's house and then we'd sneak out of there. And then we got caught there too. Oh, it wasn't good.
Kim (16:52):
I like how, by the way, you were the most thoughtful, sneaky teenager. You're like, I left a little Andy's mint of chocolate on their pillow. And a note about where I am.
Heather (17:03):
Yeah, you're right. Just I'm on more joy. It's fine.
Kim (17:07):
I love that. I loved that. When I was on your podcast, you told me a little bit about when you were home with the kids in that period in your life, and I was so excited to hear more about that. Tell me a little bit more about the early years when your kids were little and what you were doing and how your life ended up meandering into this really huge empire. I'm going to call it Empire, you do so much now. But tell me, how did it all sort of come together?
Heather (17:33):
I was an actress for years, and then I met Terry and we were going back and forth between LA and Orange County. I get a show picked up, we'd move up there. I got one canceled. We moved down to Orange County back and forth. And then we had kids. And literally my show before I had kids was called Bat's Life. And it was an hour long dramedy with Paul Sino, Ellen Burston, Debbie Maser a really great show. But I was on the set for 16 to 17 hours a day. Loved it. Loved it. And then it got canceled and we were trying to get pregnant and went through I V F and did all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, within a year, I am a pregnant with twins. And then stay at home mom. We were going, still going back and forth, but eventually we ended up moving down to Orange County because I had to put them at school somewhere.
(18:25):
You have to dig in at some point. I wasn't working. It was just such an odd period of time. And I went from a full-time working person to a full-time stay-at-home mom, which is so isolating. It could be very depressing. Things weren't like they are now. There was no creating content, there was no smartphone, there was no, we just didn't have stuff like that. That was still the time where I would wait for the agent to call. There was an audition and then from Orange County you'd have to drive track. It was just too much. I really had to pull myself out of things. I was depressed at times. And even though I loved my kids and I was very happy being a mom, it was jarring. The whole thing was just incredibly jarring. And I remember Terry used to say to me, he is like, if I could show you a crystal ball and I would show you where you're going to be in three years, five years, 10 years, he goes, you wouldn't suffer it.
(19:20):
I wish I had listened to him. But also I feel like if I didn't suffer it, I wouldn't constantly have been striving to do something different, more interesting, better, whatever it was. I would do a pilot every year basically, and I would feel like myself again. And then it wouldn't get picked up and I would go back to my family. So I did that for a few years and I ended up meeting the Orange County Housewife people and getting on that train and then podcasting and live TV and all these other things that it opened. It's such a great platform. I mean it opened so many doors, so many things. And I have to say, even though it was very difficult for me to do because when I was an actress, reality was seen as lesser than and something that was taking away jobs from actors.
(20:06):
So it was very difficult for me to switch my mindset. So the first time I was on the show was difficult. And then in the period of time where I left the show and came back those five years, whatever that was, I mean literally this platform gave me so many interesting things. But the best part, I got to sort of navigate my career and my life during the hours my kids were at school. And I think that's the best gift that moms in the last decade have is that you can be a mom influencer, you can start a business mean between YouTube and Instagram and Etsy and all these amazing and podcasting and all these amazing things that you can do. It's really such a blessing I think for so many people. I don't feel like you have to choose anymore. You actually, you really can do it all.
Kim (21:01):
But when you're filming, obviously when you're filming, those are long days. Because I agree with you, I think there's so many amazing opportunities. Like I coach business owners now how to grow their business with video and podcasts. And I agree with you. I think you can absolutely grow a business in the hours your kids are at school and also kids of after school too. So some days it's not three, it's like five o'clock. But I do think when you're filming though, those hours are really long
Heather (21:23):
And people don't understand. I think like that it's a job and it really is. It's physically and mentally exhausting. And we film five days a week, but we have three crews on our show, which is not true for every franchise. But on our franchise we have three crews, which means we film, all of us film every day.
Kim (21:45):
For how long? You said, you said five days a week for how long? It
Heather (21:48):
Kind of depends. There's some days where I feel like I'm working morning, noon, and night. There's other days where I feel like it's just a few hours. It kind of depends, but it's a sprint and a marathon. It's really, it's both. So yeah, it's a lot.
Kim (22:04):
I've been hearing my friends stress about college for their kids. It brings me right back. I remember the confusion and stress that comes with paying for college. I now have a way to help college bound families breathe easy with College Ave Student Loans. College Ave is here to help you take the stress out of paying for college with loans designed to fit your unique budget and goals through a simple three minute application, flexible repayment options, and helpful tools. This is your shortcut on the road to college. To learn more, visit college ave.com/exit interview and enter to win their thousand dollars college scholarship. There's no purchase necessary to enter or win the scholarship. See official contest rules for details@collegeave.com slash exit interview. What has changed about reality TV since when you started and now?
Heather (22:54):
I think the biggest change is that we've now lived with reality television for so long. It's such a huge part of the thread of not just television and content, but our lives. Everyone's lives, the world's lives. I think it's difficult to cast.
Kim (23:15):
Oh, interesting. Because people are now so hyper aware of how it's made or their intentions or
Heather (23:22):
Both. I think we all agree that people on the Bachelor probably are not there to find love.
Kim (23:28):
You mean they're not there for the right reasons?
Heather (23:30):
I'm not sure in the most dramatic rose ceremony. But look, it's a fantastic show. I mean, I'm not judging it. I like the show. I haven't watched it in a couple of seasons, but I think shows Real Housewives and The Bachelor. I think with the casting great. And sometimes it's just great and it works. The shows are amazing. But that's really where I think the shows live the best is when people are authentically are friends, they really want to be there. And there's not like this alternative, I have a line of candles I want to sell.
Kim (24:04):
When people are really being mercenary about it or it's too scripted, basically.
Heather (24:09):
I mean they don't script it. Full disclosure. There's no scripting going on. There's no scripting. No one's standing there going go yell at someone. It doesn't happen.
Kim (24:18):
Would've been the craziest moments. Looking back, you're like, I can't believe that thing happened. The
Heather (24:23):
Craziest thing was the Brooks Cancer thing. I mean that was the craziest thing because we were all looking at each other, well he can't be fakey cancer. I mean, you can't accuse someone of fakey cancer. And then we'd all go, yeah, but that's weird. Okay. And it really, the way it unfolded was just so insane.
Kim (24:45):
Yeah, that's pretty top three. Yeah.
Heather (24:48):
Crazy.
Kim (24:50):
How many years were you home with your kids?
Heather (24:52):
I mean, I would say without working long. I mean, I was still do, like I said, a pilot here or there. I did a guest spot. I did a thing. I did a thing. But wasn't working for seven years because my youngest child was nine months old when we started the show and the oldest was seven. But yeah, it's such a crazy transition.
Kim (25:14):
What would you do differently looking back?
Heather (25:16):
I mean, I definitely wouldn't suffer it as much. And I think I might have allowed myself to explore maybe more options, although I don't even know what that looks like. Cause we really didn't, I'm trying to think what was of honestly available at that time. But I think I probably would've just been easier on myself and not suffered it so much.
Kim (25:39):
And you had mentioned the crystal ball. Did you ever envision this life for yourself 20 years ago?
Heather (25:46):
No. I thought for sure before I had kids that I would just always have worked as an actress that we would've stayed in LA probably that I think mean this has been an odd turn. I mean, I married a doctor who became a television star. That was weird. I never thought we'd live in Orange County. I never thought I'd have four kids. That's a lot of kids. I mean, we started late and we had fertility issues and I love it. I love having a big family, but I had no idea it was going to go back to the show. I went back to the show, it didn't start off the way I have pictured it would start off. That was really weird. This season that's going to come out. I don't know, they haven't told us, but whenever it's coming out, that was not an easy one for me. And I don't know, it's kind of like all of these different transitions. I feel like I grow from 'em, I'm learning from 'em. And I'm right now involved in some projects that I'm really about. And I'm not saying they they're going to change the world necessarily, but they're things. Maybe they will, I don't know. But they're things that I'm excited about and interested in.
Kim (26:53):
Can you tell me about them?
Heather (26:55):
Well, one of 'em, yeah. So I've been working with Fireside, which is that new interactive app from Mark Cuban and Fall Amphetamine and it's so cool. And they asked me to do the first lifestyle network on their platform. And so that's been in the works for a while. And we're about to launch the first show, which is called Nightcap, first week of April. And then the network will actually launch the HD network, Heather. But hi daf, living Your Life clear, focused intentionally that's going to launch in May. So I'm really excited about that.
Kim (27:31):
That is really cool. I feel like that's exciting and it's very next level, cutting edge today. I think there's always new things and there's always something coming out and you have to stay on top of it. So to be able to evolve with new technologies and new opportunities, that's really cool. I'm excited. What are you most proud of from your time on Real Housewives?
Heather (27:51):
Showing our family and just trying to start conversations in other people's homes. The comments and the messages are amazing. And even the ones that have hate, I feel like you, you're still watching us and something's going to get in there. You have to be careful because people do, they feel like they know you and they know your family and everything. And you know want to be open and honest and authentic. But you can't show everyone everything. You got to save some things for your own life and mental wellbeing. And especially with the kids, they need their privacy too. I mean, I think when we left the show the first time, it was kind of the right time age-wise for them. Cause when they're little and they just kind of run in, they're cute and they leave. But then they get to that pre-teen stage where maybe it's better to not be on camera. So I think it's all worked out.
Kim (28:49):
The braces and the this and the that. I'm just kidding. But my kids are little. They're seven and a half and five and a half. They already are conscious of agency. I think that's what we're talking about. That they have agency and they have choice in life. And if they don't want to be on my social video, they don't need to be on my social media video. I'm like, you are a child first. You are your own life. I don't need you for this thing. If you want to, you can. They see me filming sometimes they want to join in and sometimes they say, stop recording. I say, no problem. Because even though they're little, my daughter is in second grade. But you know what? She has choice in this world. And I want her to know she has choice. I totally understand what you're saying about,
Heather (29:25):
It's so hard though because then if I post a picture and one of my kids is hard, no, no pictures. All of a sudden it's like, why aren't you putting them in the photo? What's wrong? You don't like that child. You're hiding that child. It's like you can't win.
Kim (29:41):
You're like, caption this child vetoed a photo this month.
Heather (29:44):
Listen, I've gotten much better. But I remember one year Max and Nikki were, it was first day of school, so I took a first day of school and I posted it and they were both angry. They didn't like the picture. Stop posting. You have too many followers, whatever. So I repost it. I took it down and I reposted the photo with emojis over their faces. They didn't like that either. So then I found a stock photo of boy girl twins and I posted it on my Instagram and I wrote, I don't know who these twins are, but I hope they have a wonderful first day of school.
Kim (30:19):
I'm so proud of Getty. Photo number 4, 4 77.
Heather (30:25):
God bless. Have a great year.
Kim (30:28):
Oh, the places you'll go. Oh
Heather (30:29):
Yes, Dr. Zeus there.
Kim (30:32):
What is your kids' relationship with social media? Cause I do feel like it's very fraught in general for everyone. Basically everyone, but especially kids. What's their relationship with social media? How do you talk about it with them? Because I know a lot of people from social media feel, it's like you could feel negative, you can feel it has a lot of benefits, but it has obviously a lot of negative. To be
Heather (30:53):
Totally transparent, I never limited their social media. I didn't. And I know this is stupid. I get it. I'm not telling anyone else to do this. But I didn't. And I think it may fall in the same category of the freedom I gave them when they got older. I felt like they just always seemed to handle it and no one was ever caught up. And I have to say two of mine totally don't care about it. And they only use it Snapchat to talk to their friends or whatever and really don't post anything and don't look. And they're not on that. And my other two are on, its sort of post but don't really look or I don't know, they're just, they've never been crazy obsessed with it. The only thing was last year on the show. So I always do something with each of the kids, whatever we have, our things we do together and they like to film it.
(31:52):
And Catrina and I were gardening because we had these planters in the side of the house and she kept bugging me because we had fruits and vegetables growing. She was like, can't we just do one with flowers? I'm like, fine. So I had it dug up and I had Rogers Gardens come over. I'm like, we'll plan 'em together. So they wanted to film it. So we're just sitting there and Kat goes, I think I'm going to take my lesbian flag down. I was like, okay, that's out of left field. I'm like, why? And she said, I posted something on, I think it was TikTok and someone, it was in the background and someone made a comment and it launched into this amazing, beautiful conversation. Normal, normal parent-child conversation ball. It got on the show, it was on. And again, so it helped so many people. And I said to her afterwards, I'm like, are you sure you're okay with all this? Whatever? And she's like, a hundred percent it is what? So as far as social media goes, that was the one time that something like that came up with the kids.
Kim (32:55):
Interesting.
Heather (32:56):
And she told me about it. We talked about it, we handle it because here's the truth. And of course it's ages and stages. A five year old can't process something the same way as 16 year old can. I feel like it really opened up good conversations between us to figure out how to handle these things because you can't keep 'em in a bubble forever.
Kim (33:15):
Yeah, totally. How do you balance, you have a lot going on, like you said, four kids and you're an involved parent. How do you balance it all?
Heather (33:22):
Some days you do, some days you don't. You can only do your best. I think sometimes it's the squeaky wheel, you know, got to pay attention to the kid that needs you at that moment. Sometimes it's all them at the same time, which is terrifying. I do my best to try to just stay really connected to everyone in the family. I'm a big proponent of schedules, endless. I mean, I'm just hyper organized at all times and I'm always looking in advance. But I really feel like you've got to be organized because if you're not organized, things get pushed along the wayside. And I also feel like it's really important to use your resources. Meaning look, some people can afford to hire a nanny or a housekeeper or help of some sort so they can free up time. Some people are lucky enough to have family that live nearby that want to participate and help out, whatever. If you have children or neighbors or friends, whatever that is, you got to create a community, use your resources and get organized. I mean, honestly, that's the balance.
Kim (34:30):
And also I think sometimes the conversations about privilege and stuff get muddied. You're like whatever you do have, use it to make your life less stressful, to be spend your time how you want to spend your time. It's not about how much you have or what you have, but it's like how you're using it to get the life you want to be living.
Heather (34:48):
Oh, a hundred percent. All
Kim (34:49):
Right, Heather, are you ready for rapid fire? Yes. All right. Weirdest job you've ever had.
Heather (34:55):
I think maybe the weirdest job I had was I did voice dubbing for telenovelas in English with a Spanish accent.
Kim (35:02):
Can I hear your Spanish accent?
Heather (35:04):
No, I'm sure it'll be cultural misappropriation.
Kim (35:12):
Okay. Your favorite reality show
Heather (35:14):
Probably survivor.
Kim (35:15):
Most surprising thing that's happened to you because of fame.
Heather (35:19):
I would tell you the weirdest thing is having gone from script to television to reality TV and having people literally know you. Like anywhere I go, people come up to me and I have always have to think because they'll say, hi Heather. I'll go, hi. I'm like, wait, do I know them? Do I not know them?
Kim (35:39):
That is really funny. Actually, embarrassing parenting moment.
Heather (35:43):
We were at a show for the kids, like a holiday show kind of thing. And we had had a cocktail before we went, just one, whatever. It's not like I was hammered or anything, but I was a little loose. I don't know. From the one cocktail, I guess we hadn't eaten. And so afterwards we went into the classroom and I was so overly loud and I said something like, you were all fabulous. And then I heard myself say it and I was like, oh my God, not only did I just turn into my mother, so that was so embarrassing. And Terry looked at me like, oh my God, what just came out of your mouth?
Kim (36:17):
And then your kids always think you're embarrassing. You're like, no, I was actually embarrassing.
Heather (36:22):
I was actually very embarrassing. Sorry.
Kim (36:24):
Funniest thing one of your kids ever said.
Heather (36:28):
Do you write that stuff down? I
Kim (36:30):
Do. So you know how you're relying on notes. I'm a Google Docs person. I have a file that I have a Google doc that says memories Lily and Nate. And when they say something or do something funny, I just type it in there and I rarely look back at it. But then every once in a while I do.
Heather (36:45):
That is so smart. I wish I had done that. Cause the memories are fading.
Kim (36:49):
Do it now. It's never, never too late.
Heather (36:51):
Never too late. I mean, they've done so many funny things over the years, but I feel like I just love the little words they make up for things. One of my kids called it a sandwich instead of a sandwich. One called it a hanger bird. My oldest son used to say, watch lemon. And they're so cute.
Kim (37:12):
That's very cute. Surprising fact about you
Heather (37:16):
Feel like everyone knows everything about me. Is that crazy surprising fact about me. I don't know if this is surprising to everyone, but I'm very sensitive. I get my feelings hurt really easily. I'm better than I was. But I think there's a perception of me from being on the show. Some of it's positive, some of it's negative. I'm a whole person. But yeah, I'm hypersensitive.
Kim (37:41):
That's interesting. I feel like sensitivity is a superpower. And it's also hard because you feel more, but on the positive side you feel more.
Heather (37:49):
Yeah, it's hard. But I grew up in a very 1950s family, and so I wasn't really allowed to be overly sensitive. So I feel like I squashed emotions for so many years. That came out later.
Kim (38:01):
I have had that too. I joke. I had two older brothers and in a normal suburban home. I mean, I don't think I cried till I was 17. I don't think I was allowed. You weren't allowed to be sad. It's like you're not sad. You're
Heather (38:13):
Fine, you're fine,
Kim (38:15):
You're fine. Even
Heather (38:16):
Crying at movies, I didn't feel comfortable because I remember sitting with my family and my cousin, someone and I started getting teary at a movie and I remember them making fun of me. I was teased a lot. I don't like being teased. I don't mind a joke, but I don't like being teased. And there's a difference.
Kim (38:33):
And that I think you're right, comes from being sensitive. Yeah. What you were saying about crying, I remember, I think that the first time I cried in a movie was like Titanic. Yeah, we're older. Cause you weren't
Heather (38:45):
Allowed. No, weren't allowed. It's such a good release of emotion that I feel like you're saying the same thing. We weren't allowed to have, you weren't allowed to have that release of emotion. And sometimes just crying is cathartic and you feel so much better and you just got to get it out. So whether it's situational or it's emotional or whatever it is, it's so good.
Kim (39:08):
I agree with you. I also think because I wasn't that in touch with my feelings or couldn't express them so well, when I had to express feelings, whether in a relationship or in a job situation, those tears would come up because I hadn't had the muscles practiced in saying what I think and talking about my feelings. And so if I would get feedback at a job, I would never cry on the office, but I would feel that I was tearing up and it's more just that I wasn't talking about any of my feelings. And it became really hard over time. If you have feelings and you feel like you need to let 'em out, you need to be talking about them more. Yes. Because I realized that I had all this stuff bottled up that it was so I don't want, it's not the word triggering, it's more just like that. I could have a tear come up from this conversation means that I'm not being open enough.
Heather (39:56):
Right, right. No, no. I feel like you and I are so similar in that respect. And it funny because even over the years, if I was having an issue with something and he would want to just shut it down and fix it or give me the solution or tell me it's not a big deal or put it in perspective and tell me all the horrible things going on in the world, whatever it is, I had to teach him like, Hey, listen, here's what I need. I need you to say nothing. I just need to vent, cry something in. I need to spit my emotions out in some way. And then you could fix it or talk about it or put it in perspective for me a hundred percent. But by thwarting it, I'm back in the same spot I was as a kid and I hate it.
Kim (40:41):
It's so funny. I remembered reading something. I don't know where, but about how, because women and men behave in different ways that women have to tell a man, I am going to complain about something and I don't want you to try to solve it. I want you to listen that you have to expect your output. So my husband's a big pragmatist and I'll tell him something and he'll be like, whoa, what's the worst that happens? And he'll actually say the worst that happens and it is helpful in a way, but I'm really like, I just want you to be like, you're awesome. That will never happen. Yeah. I'm like, just tell me this is going to be successful.
Heather (41:17):
Right, exactly.
Kim (41:18):
I love that. We're going to go on a double date when you come to New York. We're going to have a double date. Our husband's going to be like, and then the world explodes and we're going to be crying in the corner. That's not what I wanted.
Heather (41:27):
This is
Kim (41:27):
The worst
Heather (41:28):
Date ever. That's so funny. Immediate
Kim (41:31):
Split. Okay, I to know your karaoke song.
Heather (41:35):
I've never sung karaoke in my life.
Kim (41:38):
Why?
Heather (41:39):
I think because I'm a singer and in the same way of scripted television versus reality. Being a singer and doing karaoke always felt like kind of low budge. But I don't know. I never s I never sang karaoke.
Kim (41:53):
All right, Heather, here's what's going to happen. All right. You and karaoke are going to
Heather (41:55):
Come down. We're going to new dinner and we're going to do karaoke. What's your song?
Kim (42:01):
Well, I mean, so I have a deep voice and I joke that since I'm now allowed to cry as a grownup, it's been many years of suppressed crying. I now have ovaries and feelings and I can hit high notes and all these weird things. I sing things like Joan Jet.
Heather (42:14):
Oh yeah, that would be a good song for me.
Kim (42:16):
Amy Winehouse Reha. Okay.
Heather (42:18):
I like it.
Kim (42:19):
I sometimes sing George Michael Faith and I sometimes sing like the she said hello Justin yellow sometimes that
Heather (42:26):
That's good. I like it. Alright, so when you go to a karaoke place, do you then have to sit there and listen to everyone else's songs?
Kim (42:34):
No. Private room. Private
Heather (42:36):
Room. Okay. So you just listen to each other, whoever you're with.
Kim (42:39):
Yeah, it's like a double date serenade. We're basically going to serenade each other.
Heather (42:43):
Oh my God, I love this. This is going to be the best. I'm totally in.
Kim (42:48):
All right. I've hogged so much of your time.
Heather (42:50):
I have the best time.
Kim (42:52):
This is the best. I feel like we're, I feel like we're maybe we're related. We're definitely friends
Heather (42:57):
For sure.
Kim (42:58):
How fun was that? You can find all things Heather at her site, heather dubrow.com or on Instagram at Heather. But I want to take you behind the scenes because Heather will admit herself. She admits very freely. She's not super tech savvy, but I am supposed to be tech savvy. I'm a video executive producer. I teach people how to make video and podcasts, but even experts mess up sometimes. Basically after an interview, you need to let it process so the guest can't leave until the video and the audio is fully processed, otherwise it won't save. So I guess I let Heather leave because we were having a great time and her video wasn't finished processing. So I'm of course freaking out. I'm like, oh my God, I missed all of the content. I don't have Heather's video. Oh my God. And the articles I read said, no, you can't fix it.
(43:47):
It has to be on her end. She has to hop back on. So I don't have her phone number. I arrange it with her assistant. And when we chat, it's amazing, but I don't like have her number on text. So I hand wrote a sign, literally a paper sign. I put it on the Zoom window saying, Heather, please have your computer finished processing. I took a Sharpie like in capital letters and eventually I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. I emailed her assistant and before I even heard back the company I used to record called Zencaster, I emailed them and basically begged them and they were able to get her video. So it all ended up really well. But I do love bringing people into my stories of the good, bad, and the ugly of work.
(44:34):
Thank you so much for listening. Make sure to drop a review and if you want to send in a real mom moment that we'll share on the air, check out moms exit interview.com. And if you're a professional or small business owner looking to grow your brand through amazing content with no silly dances and with no burnout, check out my website kim whitford.com and you can hit contact to chat with me. And thanks for listening. Like this is the most amazing community. You guys send in the best feedback. So share it with your friends. Let anyone know who you think would appreciate it. And this is Mom's Exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rit Bird. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. Jillian Grover edited this episode, and Eliza Friedlander is our editorial producer and publicist. I'll see you next time.
(45:23):
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