Ep. 53/ Declutter Your Home + Your Life: Minimalist Moms’ Diane Boden
SHOW NOTES:
Want the Top 10 Tips to Be a Less Stressed, Happier & More Successful Parent, from the expert guests of Mom’s Exit Interview? Grab it here
Please leave a rating and review for the show!
++++++++++++++++++
Ready to get all the junk out of your house and your life to do more with less?
As a former ‘maximalist’ I’m personally excited to hear and share her tips with you. Minimalism isn’t just about clutter and junk, it’s also a mindset to get more out of your life by removing what’s unnecessary (hallelujah!). But also you learn about how to organize and declutter quickly, tips on what to do with the kids artwork (!).
LISTEN BELOW! And don’t forget to ‘follow’ and leave a rating & review!
Click below to Follow, Review & Give a 5-star rating to Mom’s Exit Interview Podcast.
In this episode you will learn:
How to organize and declutter quickly in a simple and achievable way
Tips on where to start and how to have quick wins for a more organized home and life
How to apply decluttering and minimalism to achieve a better work-life balance
What JOMO (The Joy of Missing Out) is and how it can help you
Show Takeaways:
Ready to get all the junk out of your house and your life to do more with less?
As a former ‘maximalist’ I’m personally excited to hear and share her tips with you. Minimalism isn’t just about clutter and junk, it’s also a mindset to get more out of your life by removing what’s unnecessary (hallelujah!). But also you learn about how to organize and declutter quickly, tips on what to do with the kids artwork (!),
Plus I share a win from this podcast!
“Stopping before we bring the things in can keep it from piling up and then we can just start dealing with the things that we already do have.”
“Just being realistic about the season you're in and not having too much pressure, really aiming to get rid of what's superfluous in your life and not being so rigid.”
“I think in regards to mindfulness, just being quiet and going slow. I hate the word self-care, but it is an important factor of our life if we're not setting aside that time for ourselves.”
SHOW LINKS:
Follow host Kim Rittberg on Instagram!
FREE DOWNLOAD: Improve Your Video Quality to Increase Your Revenue - 10 Tips to Take Your Videos from Mediocre to Magnetic Click here!
How To Be A Happier, Less Stressed & More Successful Parent: Click here!
EPISODE LINKS:
Connect with Diane HERE
Listen to The Minimalist Moms Podcast: Click here
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim (00:02):
Are you ready to get your house organized and decluttered and your life organized better? Well, Diane Bowen of the HIT podcast, minimalist moms is here. So it's a great episode.
(00:15):
This is Mom's Exit interview, the show for moms who want to craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational bombs across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms, and they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness, to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim rit. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses, they're taking back control. Join me and make work, work for you instead of the other way around.
(01:18):
I have some exciting news. I am an aunt again, my brother Matt and sister Jess just had a little cutie named Brenner and I flew to Los Angeles for the Bris. So I met the baby when he was eight days old. Remember when they're so small and they smell so nice? He is so sweet. I'm so thrilled for them. My brother Matt is an award-winning producer and writer and comedian, and Jess does business development at an amazing event company. So she receives all of my questions when we host events and he receives my creative questions. So anyway, it's very fun. Brainstorm family. They're the best people and I'm so happy for them. I have older nephew and nieces and I, it's been so fun watching them get older and get bigger. But this is my first nephew since becoming a mom. So not only am I feeling so many emotions for them, it's also puts a mirror of how time flies because my kids are seven and five.
(02:14):
And so just holding a baby and seeing a baby, I was just flooded by memories. And on top of that, I lost my dad a few years ago. So milestones really make me think of him, and it just puts you in that moment to really recollect and connect with your family and your childhood. So it's been an emotional month, but really great emotions, celebratory emotions, and it's just a beautiful time for my family. So I want to share that with you all. I definitely got busy with my journal, definitely got journaling this month. A lot happening. And now we're going to jump into the show. Super important, but quick favor, please tell two people to listen to the show and drop a rating in review and hit the follow button. Sometimes you'll listen, they forgot to hit follow and da dun. People have been asking me, Kim, how are you getting all of these amazing speaking engagements?
(03:06):
And the answer is, I'm showing up on video and podcasts with super high quality content. This is true. I truly didn't always show up on video and podcasts when I was in corporate, but now I'm offering you the blueprint to do that. So if you are interested in going from professional to thought leader, attracting clients through content, send me a message. You can check out kim ripper.com, Kim r i t t b e r g.com, or go to Instagram and drop me a note there. I'll give you my cheat sheet on how to grow your business and become a thought leader. And today, I'm so excited for our guest, but I'm also kind of laughing because we are going to talk about minimalism and I've been kind of a maximalist, but in some ways not on purpose. So the reason why I struggle with minimalism is because my hobbies and interests always have had stuff associated with them.
(03:59):
So when I was a teenager, actually even younger, when I was a child, I loved doing art forever, like sewing, little purses, drawing, painting. I spent an entire camp at a summer working on a huge painting. And from there I launched a jewelry business in my twenties. And in addition to doing jewelry, that was my side hustle, my main job was being a TV producer. And back then tapes were big. So all of the footage that I had were like on three by five or whatever, seven by nine, whatever the sizes tapes. So my first apartment in New York City, my bedroom was so small, I shared a three bed with two other people and my own bedroom hit three walls. My bed in my bedroom hit three walls. That is how small my room was. I had to loft my bed and then shove things under my bed.
(04:50):
And so I had my jewelry supplies, my jewelry tools, my busts, what you put a necklace on and earring trees. So much stuff in a tiny space. In addition to that, I had a bag with tape and equipment, and then I had a little camcorder. It's insane. My brother made a funny drawing of me once that I was a little toy person, like a little toy monkey hanging on the edge of a straw, a glass of water, and the straw is all of my belongings. It's just hilarious. I basically was a doll in a doll's house. So anyway, now I'm an adult. I don't live in a five by seven bedroom anymore. Hooray. That period was over. That's awesome. But now I have all this stuff from the kids. We have art, we have toys, we have clothing just like you all bicycles, scooters, nonstop stuff, right?
(05:39):
Helmets. But I am a minimalist in my work life. I was actually on Diane's amazing hit podcast called Minimalist Moms. It's like a really huge podcast. And I talked about how to be more minimalist in your work life, how to have a better work-life balance by doing more with less, how to make more content in less time, how to say no to more things. I've gotten better at that as time went on. I have my podcast, I have my business, and then I make sure in the summers I try to chill. So I try to not work as much on Fridays. So I'm truly trying for a lot of work-life balance in that way. I'm minimalism, but in terms of minimalism with stuff, I'm not giving you those tips. Diane definitely is. So without further ado, I'm super excited to have you here from Diane Bowen of Minimalist Moms.
(06:28):
I'm so excited. We have here with us today, Diane Bowen. She's the voice behind the top rated podcast, the Minimalist Moms, where she spreads her ideas and interviews others in regards to living a life in the pursuit of Less. Her goal is simply think more and do with less. Diane's been featured on other popular podcasts like The Spillover Al with Alex Clark. The Mom Hour Find the Magic with Intention and many others. She's also been featured in Simplify Magazine in March, 2023, and her first book came out in March, 2021. She lives in Columbus, Ohio with her husband and three children. Diane, I'm so excited to have you.
Diane (07:00):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. I know you were on my podcast not long ago, so I was like, yes, I can't wait to come on yours. But as well,
Kim (07:06):
I love this because I feel like minimalism is one of those things that is, it feels super aspirational because I feel like as parents we're like, what do you mean? My life is maximalist stuff everywhere. Things everywhere. All I'm trying to do is be more efficient with my time. So I'm really, really excited to sit down and dig in with you. So through your life experiences and your podcast, what are the things that you have sort of learned from the podcast that you're like, these are the biggest takeaways that I've had. What are the major things that when readers like R readers listeners write in are like, this changed my life? What are some of those big takeaways that you've had or listeners have had?
Diane (07:46):
So you're talking about in regards to minimalism? Yes. Yeah. So one of the biggest game changers, I know this is so simple, but it's the one minute rule. Have you heard of this? So it's anything you can do in about one minute, give or take. So for example, hanging up your coat when you come inside the home, putting your shoes away, washing your dish at lunchtime, things like that, that end up building throughout your day. And then when you're exhausted and you don't want to do anything and you have this load of little chores, if you can just get those done throughout your day, that's been a huge thing to just simplify. What else? Not allowing things in my home to become catchalls like flat surfaces. So I'm looking at my countertops right now, not allowing those or entryway spaces to become catchalls for paperwork, mail that just hasn't been addressed, your kids' things.
(08:33):
So little tips like that I think have been so helpful from allowing the clutter to build throughout my day. And then really it comes down to, and what I hear from everyone else is the accumulation of things. So it's not so much about getting the things out. Yes, that's what I hope that I help people do with my show and just with my advice. But if we can get to the root of it, why are we bringing things in? What are we bringing in and can we stop that before it happens? So if we start to change those habits, stopping before we bring the things in, I think that that can keep it from piling up and then we can just start dealing with the things that we already do have.
Kim (09:09):
I love the idea of the accumulation factor, pushing that aside. I think it aligns with sustainability being eco-friendly. But I do have a question. How do you fight that with fast fashion and Amazon? And I feel like there is an influx of packages every single day. I live in a building in New York City with a doorman. I feel bad for them. We have Amazon packages throughout the week. We probably have 10 to 20 packages. How do you fight that? It's such a cultural thing happening right now.
Diane (09:37):
Yeah. Well, it's curious. I would be curious to go through your Amazon orders with you, because I've done the same where I tell my husband, we have so many Amazon packages, but we're minimalist and we're trying to do this simple living intentional living thing. But when I go through it, it's like, okay, it's a sticker book for my son. He uses that in the car or when I'm homeschooling, okay, it's dishwashing liquid. Okay, we use that. So some of these purchases, it makes sense. We still have to exist in the world. We're not trying to say we're never going to buy anything, and then it's never going to bring anything in. Yeah. So you were talking about fast fashion for me, I don't know, it would probably be hard living in New York City doing what you're doing. I'm not trying to understand. I can live everyone's lifestyle and feel that pressure of going to an office every day.
(10:22):
However, I love Poshmark, love Poshmark. So many of my clothes are from Poshmark these days or secondhand. If you can find a good consignment shop, I think that's a great way that you can be sustainable without making these fast fashion purchases. But when it comes down to my actual closet, I'm have limited space. I'm sure you do too. Living in New York City, and I mean it's just really simple, but the hangar rules. So once my hangers are all taken, it's like it's time to get rid of something. So we have a set number of things that we're bringing in. It's the one in one out rule. So if you bring something in, even with kids stuffies, something as silly as that, my daughter loves stuffed animals, and I actually do too. I have a soft spot. Maybe it's because I love them as a kid, but once herb little bin is full, it's time to start sorting through them before we have anymore.
(11:12):
And I like those visual boundaries. Again, the closet is a visual boundary of those hangers saying, okay, it's probably time to reconsider what we have in here before we bring anything else in. But with kids, you're right, kids are bringing things in, and if you allow them to have the autonomy to say, yes, I want to bring this in, but set the limit with those shelves or bins, that way it's not becoming too much. And there's seasons where you're going to own more things. Again, we have children. We're not empty nesters. So I think just being realistic about the season you're in and not having too much pressure, really aiming to get rid of what's superfluous in your life and not being so rigid
Kim (11:53):
That I do feel like I got a gold star because my kids' birthdays are coming up. And I said to them, we can't get those birthday presents unless we go through the toys we don't have. And I also think it helps. One of the things I'm working on in my life is sort of, I'm trying not to be the parents who are, when I was a kid, I walked 20 miles in the snow, but I am like, Hey guys, I didn't have these choices. I didn't get to do as much as you. I didn't get to have as much as you have. And so I'm very conscious of teaching them to give, to participate in charity. We served a meal at a homeless shelter recently, and I'm trying to do that, and I think it helps because we have some friends, close friends, family members that we're giving toys and clothing too.
(12:31):
And the kids really love the idea of this is going in the bag for June. Oh, this is going in the bag for Baby Brenner. So it's that idea of not philanthropy, but sharing and giving. And then I think it's working in, I know a lot of my friends, a lot of parents I know we're always trying to instill those values of being and community, and it's not always just taking and selfishness. So I like this idea of, hey, this bucket is full. When it's full, nothing else can come in it. If you want to get new stuff, we need to donate old stuff. Or obviously that's still accumulation role, but you know what I mean. I like that. I've been using that as a moment. And then I would love your tip on what do you do with all the kids' artwork?
Diane (13:11):
Oh, yeah. Okay. So this is very straightforward. I have bins again, we have these visual repre representations that I got at the container store. They're pretty giant too. So each child has that, and we put in whatever their mementos are that they want to keep their keepsakes, and then anything else gets trashed. But before I trash it, I usually take a picture and just in my phone, I have a running photo folder, Charlotte the artist, Martin the artist, and it's all of their artwork. And then I used to be a lot better about this than I am now, but when I would do my Shutterfly scrapbooks for the, or you could even do a chatbook of their artwork. So it's like, okay, let's condense this. I know you're creative and you have a lot of things, but let's just condense it into this book. And my kids love going through our old scrapbooks that again, I was much better out about in the past than I am now.
(13:58):
But I think you're not going to be able to keep everything. And I always tell my daughter, if everything's your favorite, nothing's your favorite. And I also have to challenge myself with that too. We can't say and deem everything a favorite if that actually doesn't apply to everything. We might feel this attachment to it, but it's like, no, let's really whittle down what our favorite says. And I know that probably sounds easier said than done. Oh, it must be so easy for her. It's not like it's definitely a challenge and we've had to talk through these things, but when they can go back and see the artworks specifically in my phone, I think it makes it a lot easier to say goodbye. And then also, I have little kids, three, five, my eight year old does have more say now, but I think it's easier to get away with things like that when they're little.
Kim (14:41):
And I know that there's a company actually who also, you can send them a box of your artwork and they'll catalog it and send you a book. So I think that that's really cool. And it's funny, I've tried, not with artwork necessarily, but I, in the first five years, wait, first five years I had kids, I did photo albums religiously every six months or every year. Well, first of all, it's such an ordeal because this is a total random tangent, but for some reason, what I export from, I photo into my computer, the dates get messed up, so I have to organize them into the fall, the winter, the spring, and it takes me, I'm not even joking, 40 hours. And then I print the book, and then no one looks at it at me, and then I go on a tantrum when I'm like, nobody cares that I put all this type into it.
(15:22):
Anyway. But I do believe in albums, and I think that especially for the artwork, I love that idea. And for anyone listening, there is a company I'll, I'm going to look up the company to remember what it's called. Yeah, there is a company that will put your artwork together. I'm literally Googling it right now. Kyle's artwork it's called, maybe it's scribble. There's a company called Scribble Art Archive, plum Print. Anyways, so there's a couple of things like that that if you Google it, there's a way to actually put it together. I would love Diane, how did you get into this? Tell me a little bit about where you're from, how you got into this.
Diane (15:54):
Yeah, so I'm from Columbus, Ohio, and I got into this podcasting thing back in 2015, I think it was maybe 2016. And I had seen that a friend of mine that I was in mops moms preschoolers with, she had written a blog post about how one of her goals for the year was to start a podcast. So I reached out to her and was like, I'd like to start a podcast too. So we got together, had some drinks and brainstormed, and we both found out that we were pursuing minimalism, but it looked very different because I was living in 8 50, 900 square feet at the time, and she was living in over 3000 square feet. But we both had this common bond of intentionality and simplicity. So we started a podcast together. She did it with me for about two years and then took a position.
(16:41):
I had just had my second child. And so I was like, what do I want to do? Do I want to keep pursuing this? Because it's going to take a lot of time and effort. If I'm not starting to monetize it, I'm just going to go all in. I'm going to start reaching out to people for more of an interview style podcast. And I've been doing that ever since. And it kind of took off. And again, wasn't expecting it to. I do think that one of the reasons was because minimalism was becoming very trendy with the minimalist and Marie Kondo. And then this wasn't the exact inception of podcasting. I'd been listening to podcasts probably since 2009, 2010. However, I do think for moms, this is when moms really started to listen to podcasts. I still think we have an audience that has not even been reached yet because people don't fully understand podcasting. But it just surprisingly took off. And it's been really exciting to get to talk to women from all over and of all different backgrounds. But really the common thread of my show of what I want is think more and do with less. But it's more about intentional living, simplicity, minimalism, yes. But it's kind of an umbrella of those topics.
Kim (17:49):
I love that. And the whole idea of Do More with Less is funny because I basically personally always struggle with minimalism. Not even, I don't want to say it's not even a goal. I just think for me, historically, my life, my space was sort of taken up by jobs, work stuff, hobby stuff. But I did start thinking about it and I feel like I do struggle with it. So I really value advice from you and your show because even if I'm going to take one tip away or two tips away and implement that, the one in one out rule, I feel like I can do that. And I even noticed with crafts, that's something that I struggle to part with for my kids. I'm like, oh, but that travel set, we don't need to give it away. And my husband's like, well, we have three for her and she's only using one.
(18:29):
I'm like, yeah, let's give the third art travel set to our family friend. Yeah, I'm trying to be better about that, but I love that it can be connected to so many things. And I also, your idea of doing more with less, because I think for me, I think about that a lot in terms of efficiency of time. And that's something like I talked about on your show is I think about minimalism as a part of, we're in this sort of cultural state of do more hyper efficiency, hustle culture. I try to step back from the hustle culture, but I do try to really live by minimalism productivity. I'm like, oh, can I have a virtual assistant help me outsourcing this? Do I need to do that thing? Can I do this phone call while I walk? Trying to just not, I don't want to be sitting at my desk for nine hours a day. I work for myself. That was a conscious choice. So I try, I'm trying to do minimalism in terms of work stuff and being more efficient. So I do love that. And then talk to me about, you were saying you got into minimalism because it was a, something you were interested in. What were you doing before? I know you've been home with your kids since they were born, so tell me a little bit more about how you decided to podcasting, what you were doing before that.
Diane (19:37):
I became a quote minimalist in my early twenties. So it's been something I've been practicing, I guess practicing I, it's all so silly, but so beforehand, my degree is in English pre-education for fourth through 12th. And then once I got certified in Ohio, I got pregnant with our daughter. And so I told my husband, I think at this point I am just going to raise our kids. Let's have kids, and then I'll figure it out in the future. So honestly, at the time I was serving at a wine bar, just I would do that a couple nights a week while my husband was home and able to watch our daughter. Cause I really didn't want to necessarily get childcare. So I did that up until the week that I had my third son and he's three and a half. So I did that for quite some time.
(20:19):
I also have a side hustle of photography that I've dabbled in and I guess, I mean need to be confident. I've made it a business and I've been doing that for about the same amount of time that I've been podcasting. So just little ways, I don't know, I'm always looking for ways to make money. I don't know if that's weird. I will go to thrift stores, find something and say like, oh, I bet I could sell this for $10 more than it's, I can buy it for. And so I'm always looking about looking for ways I could have creative projects turned into sources of income for myself. So I guess I've just done that with my creative projects.
Kim (20:54):
In terms of the finances of the podcast, I've had a few podcasters on our show. How does it work for you in terms of revenue and taking in money for that?
Diane (21:01):
So up until, I think really around the time that I had my son, I wasn't making any money on it. It was just something that I kept showing up for. I would make sure I released every week regardless of how I was feeling, how tired I was. And I think that consistency is a huge part of podcasts of why they're successful because so many people give up. I don't know the statistics of it, but most podcasts don't have a long shelf life. So to monetize it, I have tried the Patreon route and it seems like people aren't super interested in that from what I have to offer. I know it works well for some people, but for me it has just been advertising, which I always, it's been a struggle because it's like, okay, you're supposed to talk about how to live with less. And then it's like, but buy this, fill in the blank thing from me again.
(21:47):
I think we still live in the world. So it makes sense that if I can offer products to my listeners and my audience of things that I think are high quality, then I'd love to do that. I just got to a point where I did have a third child and it's like I cannot justify spending as much time as I'm doing on social media and scheduling because I work for myself. I don't have anyone working for me. I have, which I probably should at this point, but I'm such a control freak with it. I don't want to not have humility in that. There is, I want to approach it in the most humble way that I possibly can, but also time is money and my time is valuable. And so I'm also taking up your time when I podcast and put something out. I'm saying I want 25 to 40 minutes of your time, and I think that time is valuable. And so I want to make sure that I can bring the best that I can to you because your time is valuable to listen to this. Thank you for listening.
Kim (22:39):
Yeah, I have a solo episode on my show about how we all need to brag more so you're talking to the wrong person. I actually think what time is money and life isn't free and lunch is not free and rent is not free. So I, I feel like I've the proto hustler, I've literally done anything that anyone could ever do for money. I mean legal stuff. But I think that when people are putting out content that is worthwhile, which you are, you're putting out so much great knowledge that really helps people. I think that that deserves to be supported by advertisers or by Patreon. I love your podcast and I think everybody should listen to it. And tell me about your book as well, about your minimalism book.
Diane (23:18):
Okay, so yes, I released that back in March of 2021, wrote it during the height of the pandemic in 2020. It's supposed to be digested over time. So I wrote it with three different sections on minimalism, like emotional, mindful, and then actually the tangible elements of minimalism. And then within those were little nuggets. I called them mantras, but little mantras start today. So the whole section was on how to start today. And then at the end of it, there would be either a resource or a prompt that you could journal and write about. But within those bigger sections, I had a whole section on sentimentality, sustainability, early motherhood, and pregnancy postpartum. So I tried to cover as much as I could as a beginner's guide to pursuing a life with lus. And then at the end of all those sections as well, I tried to include my audience on social media, just some of their feedback and how they have pursued those certain topics. So again, it's something that I wanted people to be able to just for moms, we don't have a ton of time necessarily to spend reading every day. And so I wanted it to be like, okay, I have three minutes. I can read this mantra, focus on it for the week four month, and hopefully it's helpful.
Kim (24:28):
Talk to me about the ways you break it up. So talk to me about emotional minimalism.
Diane (24:34):
Yeah. Okay. So emotional minimalism, I think it was more so about what are we saying yes to that is clouding our schedules for the week. And let's go back to me personally, I can speak to this now. Back in the fall, I was saying yes to everything because it was like, I want to make money or I want to network or I don't know, I want to feed my ego. And so I was saying yes to everything. And then by the end of fall, I had never really fully believed in anxiety. I'm sorry, that's probably really harsh to say, but I didn't fully understand it. And then I started having these anxiety attacks about people reaching out, Hey, do you have room for me here? Do you have room for me here? And I was just looking at my schedule and saying, oh, I don't have room, but I want to not say no. And I wasn't like living out what I was had been writing about and preaching for many years. When we don't define what's priority in our life or what our values are, or I guess being realistic with how much time we actually do have in our schedules, I do think that's a form of minimalism, intentional living that is goes maybe unnoticed and we don't realize out of all these correlations that can make us really unhealthy.
Kim (25:39):
Yeah, I think that the whole idea of saying yes to too many things is something so many of us have. I noticed in your inbox, which I loved, so Diane's inbox for listeners, it says, I checked this email twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays, and if you're requesting to be a guest in the podcast, click here. Otherwise bump it to my inbox if it's imp important. And I think that's really important because, so just for context for this podcast, a lot of people will ping me on LinkedIn or Instagram and I'm like, if you want to be a guest, fill out this form. And basically it goes to a Google Excel sheet because a Google spreadsheet, I cannot keep track of all the emails. The first few months I didn't have my system in place. These podcasts are time consuming. And so if people are listening to them and get joy out of them, that makes me so happy.
(26:24):
It's also a tiny portion of my life and it's also a very tiny portion of my income. So yeah, I have to make sure that it's proportional to that. And I think that one of the things I talk about and think about so much is I left a huge corporate career to work for myself to be with my kids more. And if all I'm doing is sitting at my desk and responding to emails and working from nine to six every single day, but without a 401k, without health insurance and without stability, why did I do this? And so I'm really conscious of that and I, it's hard because I feel bad. People will email me and maybe I won't respond, or I'm like, you know what? Or a lot of people will be like, oh, can you be a guest on this? Or Can you be a this?
(27:02):
And I'm like, Hey, I'm doing interviews in May and then I'm not doing interviews till September, so let's figure out a time. And I'm trying to block block time better too. I'm trying to do interviews all on a Monday and then interviews all on a Wednesday. But it's really, really hard. And I think that what the hardest part is a lot of us are pleasers and we feel bad that if we don't respond to someone, we're going to offend them in some way. And I think it's taken me a lot of work to just be, first of all, they're probably not offended. And second of all, if they're offended, that's okay. I am really busy and I don't want to be burnt out, overwhelmed, and feeling like sad. And I have nothing to give to my children and my husband and my mom. And so I like the idea of the emotional minimalism. Cause I think it's something that a lot of us think about whether consciously or not, but what we say yes to is just as important as what we say no to or what we say yes to is just as important as everything else. Because a yes is a no to something else. A yes to attending someone's event is a no to picking my kid up from school. Yeah, I guess attending someone's event is a no to doing business development to bring on a new client. You just have to remember that.
Diane (28:03):
Well, it's the jomo, choose jomo, that's another one in there. So the joy of missing out as opposed to the fear of missing out. And if I say no to, I stopped going to that mops group because I felt like a lot of the relationships there were just kind of surface level. And I was like, no, I'm in the season of my life where I want a handful of very close friends where we can get on a heart level with one another. And I talked about this before I tiered my friends, so t i e r, tier one, tier two, tier three, and I just wrote down all the women in connections in my life and I was like, okay, who do I want to see once a week, every two weeks? Who do I want to see once every three months? And then who do I not have time for anymore?
(28:46):
This sounds like such a jerk thing. It really wasn't. It was more so I only have so much time, especially now that I have three kids and I homeschool and I have these businesses, and also where's the margin for quiet and slow and just to sit on my back porch and not do anything? There was no margin in my schedule for that. And it wasn't that those women in tier three aren't valuable. Some of them are still dear to me and they were a huge part of my life and roommates or just in a really special season of young motherhood. But I can't, priority means one, it actually just means one. So what are my main priorities if I am going to pluralize it? And it's like I cannot make those women a priority anymore and they're not going to make me a priority anymore either.
(29:30):
It was a very mutual thing. We never had a conversation, but it was like, obviously this is, I don't want to say it's not working. This is just not as profound of a relationship anymore as it once was. And that's okay. And I think that we're afraid to admit that to ourselves and we try to hold onto these relationships that were once really significant and it's like, no, it's okay to let it go. And also it's okay to leave the door open and say like, Hey, in the future if we do have time for coffee, sure we can get it. But I'm going to just prioritize these groups for now. Sorry, that was a special tangent, but it's been really important to me.
Kim (30:02):
Stop apologizing. Everything you're saying is really interesting and is exactly on topic. It's exactly on topic. What you said was exactly on topic, so much so that I feel like you saying that reminded me a long time ago. So this is, talk about a tangent. I'm going back to when I was 23, I traveled around the world for a year. I packed, I probably met hundreds of people for anywhere between three hours and a week or seven months. Some became my friends, some were acquaintances. And you know what I realized after meeting so many people in such a fast bit of time, I didn't have to pretend to be like, let's keep in touch. There was such a piece to saying, great to meet you, enjoy the rest of your life. I didn't say that, but I'd be nice to meet you. Enjoy your life.
(30:45):
But basically you could be their Facebook friend and track them for the next 20 years. People that I met when I was 24, some British people that I met when I was 23 or 24, they're probably still my Facebook friends, but it's realistic to say we are not going to keep in touch. That is okay. We both enjoyed meeting and being friends in Fiji for three days at a youth hostel. And that's okay. And I think that it's also okay to say, I really like that person. I think they're really nice. I also have that happen now. Sometimes I'll meet a new parent and I'll think they're nice. I can tell they don't have space in their life for me, they don't have room in their schedule I don't think like, oh, that person doesn't like me. I mean sometimes, not usually, but yeah. So I don't think, oh, that person doesn't like me.
(31:25):
I think maybe that person's like Cup is full, maybe their schedule is full and that's okay. And I think that we also need to say that to others. It's okay to, yes, check in with those near and dear friends of yours twice a year. That will be enough. I think sometimes we're hard on ourselves. Checking in with a close friend from college twice a year is plenty and nice. And I think accepting that there are different levels of friendship. It's, it sounds weird when we admit it, but the truth is it's very important. And I'm sure that they wouldn't be insulted if they're like, oh, I'm twice a year friend. Let me look at my calendar. Sure. Actually, we do talk twice a year. That's just an honest assessment of life. So I liked how you broke that down, and I think it's true. And there's a peacefulness in saying, Hey, that's a person I wave to on the street. They give me joy that this is a community, but also we're not going to spend a day at the spot together. Okay.
Diane (32:16):
Yeah.
Kim (32:17):
I haven't had a spot day in a long time, but
Diane (32:19):
Yeah. Well, no, I was telling my husband, I'm like, okay, there's these women that have come into my life through my son's school and I really want to start pursuing some of them. But I have all these other people, like my sister and my cousin and my sister-in-law, they're my best friends. Cool. Because we're family. So we kind of get those family events throughout the year to see each other. But when you are like, okay, let me take my calendar as a whole, and then I fill in the homeschool and then I fill in my son's school and then I fill in the family dinner. When you start filling it in, you're like, okay, I have two nights a week for maybe activities with friends. My sister gets one of those. So who's the rotating friend? Once a week that I might get, maybe I don't even get it once a week, maybe it's twice a month.
(33:00):
And then I also have to find a babysitter for that. But wait, I forgot to add in my husband in our date nights. So it's like, oh no, these people, it's actually really sad. I do kind of mourn it like, oh, I don't have enough time in the season of life to get to know new people necessarily. But it's like, no, this is a season of littles where I do need to have babysitters. And my kids are a little bit younger, so they're like, I'm not going to have as many babysitters. That's fine. It's not to burn bridges, it's to keep that door open again. So maybe when I have more time in the future, this could be something really great.
Kim (33:31):
Yeah, I love that. Talk to me about the other aspects of minimalism. I feel like a lot of people struggle with the other sides of being minimalist. What are other ways in our life that we could be minimalist?
Diane (33:42):
When I'm going out on a walk, I think so often I need to fill my head with podcast or I'm someone that loves to listen to an audiobook. And going back to again, the fall, I felt like I had so much in my mind that I just needed to go and be quiet. And again, maybe you have to schedule that again. I think that's not for every season of life, but in the more hectic seasons usually that occurs when actually what it probably occurs continually throughout parenthood because I was thinking about sports and how we are going to have to drive our kids to sports or events and activities. It's like we probably need to schedule that throughout our parenthood journey. But yeah, I think in regards to mindfulness, just being quiet, going slow, making sure, I hate the word, but it is an important factor of our life if we're not setting aside that time for ourselves.
(34:29):
For me, I joined Asana for six months and just had that quiet self intentional time with myself. And then mindfulness, I guess you could apply it to social media and just being realistic with staying in your lane. I can look to you, Kim, and say, wow, I really am envious of the guests that you have on, or the way that you can set up reels. I'm not as good at that, but if I just stay in my lane, look to what I'm doing well and not necessarily comparing myself and my deficits, I don't know. I think that that helps me to just maintain that mindful brain mindset, mindful mindset.
Kim (35:12):
No, I like that. Minimalism can also be about removing pruning. I think that's what I was looking for. I was trying to think of the word minimalism can be about pruning negative thoughts also. Yeah. So I like that because one of the things, I teach a video bootcamp to business owners to grow their business with video. One of the things I teach them is to not compare to others because number one, you don't know what else's life is really like. You look at social media, it is a presentation of themself in this platform. So number one, you don't know their life. And number two, you don't know how long they've been doing it. So if you're looking at someone and you're like, oh, they have more followers or more engagement, or their content is better. Maybe they came from media. Maybe they were a photographer, maybe they were a videographer also.
(35:56):
Maybe they spend 15 hours a week doing it. Maybe they make zero money and their footage looks really good, but they make zero money. So it's, I think that it's important to prune those negative thoughts and compare yourself only to yourself. Yeah, I tell my students, you're comparing yourself to you one month ago and six months ago, and that's the only person. And anyone else you're looking at, you're drawing inspiration from. Yeah, but you're not comparing to. But I like the idea. I feel like one of the things you were saying earlier about friendship is pruning, minimalism can be about pruning. My other question for you is what are some great tips you've gotten from your podcast about meetings? I feel like a lot of people, especially people, I mean, I work for myself now. I work from home literally in a work from home office. But a lot of people who have more traditional jobs or even people work for themselves, have a lot of meetings, have a lot of client dinners or stuff like that. From your podcast, have you gotten some helpful minimalist tips in terms of the work life and how to minimalize the stress of work?
Diane (37:00):
I did this really helpful visualization last year and writing down my five values, what are the five most important things that I value? And then next to it, I wrote the five things that I was prioritizing and deeming the most important in my life. And then I compared the list. And so I think you could do that with things that you're prioritizing at work as well and saying, do these correlate And then if they're not, where do you need to change? Where do you need to make changes? Yeah, I
Kim (37:28):
Like that. I think that's helpful. Just even the exercise. And then talk to me about homeschooling. How did you decide which of your kids do homeschool? How did you decide to do that?
Diane (37:36):
So I think a lot of people were homeschooling during the pandemic and they got some insight into maybe this is harder than I expect. Maybe this is easier than I expect. And I think for me, we just spent a lot of time in nature during that period of time. And I was like, okay, my daughter's six, seven. I really want her to have the opportunity to be outside as much as she can in these younger years. So that was a main driving force for me. And then the other thing was, yes, my degree is in teaching again, the older kids, but she was showing the desire and I guess self-motivation to learn. And I was like, let's just do this together. Doesn't, we're not duplicating public school at home. It is much shorter. And she is able to study things that she wants to, even as an eight-year-old, co-ops have been crucial for us, the nature group, or we're in something called classical conversations.
(38:27):
So just finding people that are living the same lifestyle alongside of you is huge. But my son does go to a kindergarten and we are going to put 'em in a school next year. We're going to see how that all goes. I don't think there's a blanket way to parent every child. It's not the same for any child. Even this children in your own home, it's not going to be the same. So my thing was let's get them in preschool and kindergarten and then we'll reevaluate it first grade. And so we've been doing this for two years now and it's been an interesting journey, but I'm, I'm never going to look back and be like, oh, I regret having time with my kid. I'm never going to look back and think that,
Kim (39:04):
Is there a point at which you plan to put, so your son's going to start kindergarten. Is there a point at which you plan to put your daughter in whatever age you'd be in third, fourth or fifth?
Diane (39:12):
Not at this time. We've really enjoyed it. And as I said, because of the co-ops, I don't know, I think people have this weird vision of homeschool from the nineties, not to poo poo on people that were homeschooling in the nineties, but I think there are so many opportunities, especially here in Columbus to homeschool. And yeah, I just think this is where she's built her community. So at this point, no. And then I think for things that I don't understand, I'm kind of learning them alongside of her, which has been one of my favorite things to learn. Things that I am 35 and I didn't know. But also, if we need to get extra help with tutoring at some point in the future, we can also do that.
Kim (39:50):
Is there a large community of families homeschooling near you?
Diane (39:53):
I would say Columbus is a great place to homeschool. Yes. There are so many people doing it. There's something called Wild and Free, which is a nature group. But I don't know. I think it's definitely becoming more popular just because people are saying like, look, I'm still working at home from the pandemic. So could, since my me and my spouse are working from home, we could go to Florida for three weeks and homeschool our kids there. I know that's like, that's a very romanticized ideal of what people are living through right now. I understand. But I think it just gives some flexibility that I wouldn't have if my kids were having to go 30 to 40 hours a week to public school.
Kim (40:24):
Absolutely. And before we wrap up, I loved so much your minimalism tips at the beginning of the show. Do you have any other ones like your decluttering tips or one minute rule? I just like, yeah, I cannot get enough of that. And I know that the listeners can't. Are there any other minimalist tips? So the best of minimalism that you would share with our listeners?
Diane (40:41):
One other thing that has been a huge game changer for me was keeping a box in our basement of donations. So whenever something has have run its life here in our home, it goes into that box and once the box is full, it goes into my trunk and I drop it off at Goodwill. So I think that that has been really helpful because it's already set up and ready for me. Again, just having those visual boundaries is huge. Oh, when you are decluttering start in the bathroom, there are typically not as many sentimental items in there. So as you're trying to build that momentum and to have motivation, do it where you're not going to be that, have that emotional attachment to things. So start in the BA bathroom and then as with any space that you're decluttering, pull everything out. I'm looking at my medicine cabinet right now cause I know I need to do that. And you just pull everything out, assess what you have, throw away anything that's expired or that you haven't used in quite some time, or if you can find a place to donate it. If you're not working with a medicine cabinet, do that. And then you can put everything back in an organized way. And I will also say that organization doesn't mean decluttered, and I think that you can be an organized person and still have clutter. So that's something to think about as people are starting to pursue maybe a life with less.
Kim (41:56):
I love this. I basically am jotting down everything you say. I know I'm getting a transcription of the show, but I still of our interview, but I still can't help it. I'm like jotting everything down because I'm like, oh, must clean bathroom today. I love that. It's also the quick win. I love getting a quick win. You're like, yes, I finished my tiny bathroom. Diane, I loved having you. Thank you so much. This was so fun.
Diane (42:18):
Yeah, thanks for having me. It was great.
Kim (42:21):
You can listen to Minimalist Moms wherever you get your podcasts. And her book is called Minimalist Moms Living and Parenting With Simplicity.
(42:31):
I love to share wins and I'm going to share a win for the podcast, develop Good Habits website listed Mom's exit interview as one of 21 motivational podcasts for women. That's so fun. It says that Mom's Exit interview helps working mothers take control of their lives, inspiring them on their journey to achieve work-life balance. Hosted by Kim Rit Bird, that's me. This podcast features interviews with actual working moms. Were masters at balancing their lives and careers. It provides tips, strategies, and inspiration for working moms everywhere. Thanks so much. I put a lot of time and thought and energy into the show, so getting acknowledgement and having people listen and enjoy is awesome. Keep your comments coming. Thank you.
(43:14):
Thank you so much for listening. Make sure to drop a review and if you want to send in a real mom moment that we'll share on the air, check out mom's exit interview.com. And if you're a professional or small business owner looking to grow your brand through amazing content with no silly dances and with no burnout, check out my website, kim rit bird.com and you can hit contact to chat with me. And thanks for listening. Like this is the most amazing community. You guys send in the best feedback, so share it with your friends. Let anyone know who you think would appreciate it. And this is Mom's Exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rit Bird. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. Jillian Grover edited this episode, and Eliza Friedlander is our editorial producer and publicist. I'll see you next time.