Ep.86/ Extinguishing Burnout with Marissa Green of Work/Life Reimagined
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Burnt out? Can’t seem to catch up at work or at home? Marissa Green, who is the creator of Work/Life Reimagined, a work/life design program for employees, companies and parents. She also hosts The Reimagine Ambition podcast focused on inspiring parents to design work life on their own terms. After experiencing physical symptoms of burnout, Marissa took the leap to work for herself and shares her journey to overcoming burnout and her passion for helping people reimagine and rebuild their work/life experience in a healthy and fulfilling way. Plus Marissa shares how through her work with Kim, she’s revamped her messaging and showed up authentically on social media and has led to business growth and speaking engagements.
About Marissa Green:
After finishing her MBA and climbing the corporate ladder at top PR firms and biopharma companies, Marissa experienced crippling burnout as a working mom. She knew there had to be a better way for parents to advance their careers without sacrificing themselves - or their families. So she put her expertise in human-centered design to use and started Work/Life Reimagined, a coaching business focused on helping parents and companies design a better work/life balance for parents. Marissa has also bulit a successful freelance career as a co-conspirator with the bespoke purpose agency, Conspiracy of Love where she helps Fortune 500 companies drive growth and impact through purpose-driven employee experiences.
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Today you're going to hear from Marissa Green, who is the creator of Reimagine Ambition, a work-life design program for employees, companies and parents. She also hosts the Reimagined Ambition podcast focused on inspiring ambitious parents to design work life on their own terms. Marissa shares her decision to work for herself and her journey to overcoming burnout. She discusses her realization that her previous path may not have been the right one and how she finally decided to make the leap into entrepreneurship after experiencing physical symptoms of burnout.
Plus we discuss how after taking my Video Bootcamp, Marissa was able to show up authentically on social media and find new clients.
In this episode you will learn:
Shifting career focus to create work-life balance
The Temptation to Quit and Go Back to a Job
Unlocking Opportunities through Strategic Content Creation
Quotes from our guest:
“Maybe this path isn't the path that I need to be on and I need to start thinking about what else it could be.”
“The only way you stand out is if your unique self shines because a lot of people can offer a lot of the same things, but someone needs to connect with who you are, and they can't do that connection if you're not putting yourself out there.”
“I believe that work-life balance is a joke, but it's a joke because the idea of balance makes you think of this scale, literally a scale where you've got work on one side and life on the other side, and you're trying to figure out how to make the two balance. And the fact is they don't. They never balance equally and they never will.”
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MARISSA’S LINKS:
Listen to the Reimagine Ambition Podcast - Click Here
Marissa (00:02):
What in the world am I doing?
Kim (00:03):
You'll hear how an emergency room visit finally helped Marissa Green take the leap from corporate to entrepreneurship. She calls herself a recovering workaholic and she helps ambitious parents go after their dreams without sacrificing their family or wellbeing, and she helps 'em create a work life design that works for them.
(00:22):
Welcome to the Exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA part tier squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards, an in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the Grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimrittberg.com.
(01:24):
Today you're going to hear from Marissa Green, who is the creator of Work Life Reimagined, a work-life design program for employees, companies and parents. She also hosts the Reimagined Ambition podcast focused on inspiring ambitious parents to design work life on their own terms. And a little background is that we met when Marissa participated in my founder shoot day. So several business owners came to New York City and we prepared our messaging and our strategy all to make these really beautiful videos to present us to the world as experts to tell people in our own words what we do and why we're awesome. And so it was me and my award-winning cinematographer. And actually we as a team have won several awards for our video work. And what was really fun about that was I got to really go deeper on Marissa's business and understand who she was and what drives her.
(02:12):
And now she's in my mastermind called Thought Leadership through Content, which is how do we create content blogs, podcasts, videos, or be a guest on someone else's seminar or their podcast? And how do we turn that into elevation of brand? How do we make ourselves differentiated? So people are like, I want to work with her. I love her, she's so cool. And as I got to know Marissa better, I was really blown away by her intelligence and her warmth, and she's super supportive of other people. And that was clear even in early conversations like during that shoot day. And I was also thinking, man, a lot more people need to know about Marissa. She is really impressive. One thing that's interesting about work-life design is I was thinking about, that's something that I've been thinking about for literally years because this podcast is all based upon that as a concept.
(03:01):
When I considered leaving my corporate job to work for myself, my whole goal was to create a career that my life, my career could fit into my life instead of the other way around. And it was not like that for a long time. And so for me, starting my own business was exactly that. How do I create a business where my life fits in well with that? And the tagline of this show is exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. And so as soon as Marissa started talking about that, I was like, oh, this is great. I just feel like it's so important. So many of us are really trying to find success, be successful, however we define that, but it's more we want to live life how we want to live it, right? You only get to live once. We don't want to work our body to the bones.
(03:43):
We really want to save that time. And whether that's for travel or for our children or for a hobby, hobbies, remember those. But holding aside some time in our lives for the things that make us happy and not just always have it be work, work, work or work. And I did want to say some verse is in my mastermind, and I'm super excited because I've really helped her craft what's special about her and help her see content in a new way. And she has gotten clients and speaking gigs and podcast guests from our work together. So I'm really proud of her. So without further ado, here is Marissa Green. Alright everyone, we have Marissa Green here with us and I'm really excited you're going to love her. She is a recovering workaholic who isn't right. Actually most of us are not recovering, we're just workaholics,
Marissa (04:26):
Right?
Kim (04:28):
And she climbed the corporate ladder to burnout while raising two kids. After stepping off the ladder, Marissa built a successful employee experience consultancy and coaching business that allows her to feel her purpose for impactful work while having time to care for herself and her family on her own terms. Marissa's on a mission to change the work life narrative for ambitious parents by empowering them to use design principles to create more space for joy on the path to success. Marissa is a creator of Work Life Reimagined, and there's a slash in that a work-life design program for employees, companies, and parents. And she's the host of the Reimagined Ambition podcast focused on inspiring ambitious parents to design work life on their own terms. Marissa, I'm so excited to have you here.
Marissa (05:09):
I'm pumped to be here too. It's so interesting hearing you read that back. I'm like, it kind of sounds like utopia, but it's not exactly utopia to get there, but it's
Kim (05:17):
Utopia once we get there.
Marissa (05:18):
Oh, right. It's just all smooth sail and easy peasy.
Kim (05:23):
So Marissa, talk to me about how you got to, first of all, what made you decide to work for yourself, how you got to that point in your life?
Marissa (05:32):
It's so interesting. I'd love to say that it was just one moment. I think there was one moment that was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was multiple years of trying to figure it out. And it all started after I had my first daughter. I had my first daughter, we had a traumatic birth experience. And I remember sitting in the therapist's office at probably eight weeks postpartum, and she's like, you should really consider not going back yet. You should consider staying home a little longer. We walked out of her office, I looked at my husband and I was like, we're never going back to her again. She doesn't know what she's talking about. How dare she, right? How dare she? I'm on a path, I got to stay on that path. But soon after that I started to realize, well, wait a minute.
(06:14):
Maybe this path isn't the path that I need to be on and I need to start thinking about what else it could be. But it took me five years to actually get to that place of saying, okay, it's time for me to jump, it's time for me to go. And that moment was just burnout. After the pandemic started to have physical things happening, I ended up in the ER with terrible headaches and just sitting there thinking, what in the world am I doing? Why am I putting all of my being into my work when I have these two other amazing beings that I could be spending time with? And I felt like entrepreneurship really could give me the opportunity to do things in a way that worked for our family and give me not just more flexibility, but really more intentional choice versus feeling like I was always at the mercy of someone else.
Kim (07:02):
And talk to me about, I know you had told me earlier that there was that point in your career where you were aiming for a promotion and you'd been working towards a promotion and then they're like, just kidding.
Marissa (07:14):
Yes. Okay. So those moments are really hard, right? Because I think at least for me, being a high achiever, the promotion was a big deal. I was growing, I was adding things to my plate, I was learning new areas, but I wanted that promotion probably more than I wanted anything else. And I had been with the organization for many years, and every year I had been told one more year, six more months, one more thing that I needed to accomplish. And what happened was the goalposts kept changing because the company kept changing. And so this last moment, it was after I had experienced those headaches, I was having these wonderful conversations with my boss and she was being so supportive, take care of yourself, do what you need, learn how to say no. She gave me all the right amazing coaching while also delivering the message of 12 to 18 more months for that promotion. And I was like, Nope, that's it. I'm not waiting around any longer because clearly the goalpost will just change again in 12 months.
Kim (08:13):
That's rough. And I think what you're saying about how we see promotions as in theory, a promotion is just an acknowledgement of the great work you've done, but at least here in America, it's not that at all. It's like a million other things wrapped up and a lot of our self-worth is in it. And especially then it becomes this sort of mind game where you're like, is this on purpose? I could have sworn that the five bullet list, I hit those things yet now there's some reason why it's not happening. I've seen this happen with so many of my friends and colleagues and it really kind of sours you on that situation. Even if you like the job and even if you like your boss, I feel like you just feel a little bit like there's that carrot. You can never get that carrot. Carrots aren't even that delicious, but you can never get the carrot
Marissa (08:57):
Right. It's like dangling.
Kim (08:59):
Yeah. And so talk to me about your shift into self-employment. How has it been going?
Marissa (09:03):
It's been an amazing journey. I will say I have learned more and grown more as an entrepreneur than I ever could have imagined growing inside an organization. And I think there's two reasons for that. One reason is because I'm choosing and self-selecting the areas of growth, and I'm doing masterminds, I'm doing group coaching with you, I'm doing all kinds of things that I never would've even probably tapped into as part of an organization because you just don't know about it in the same way that entrepreneurs know about it. And so this self-directed learning that I think allows us to go so much deeper as entrepreneurs. I think the second reason is because it's really effing hard. It's not easy. And so every day is a different challenge and most days are a challenge with myself. And so you can't walk away from that, right? In a regular job you might be working towards something or trying to grow or develop, but you can kind of come home and get a little bit of a break from it. But entrepreneurship, it's like, Nope, those things I need to work on just go with me home. And I have to think about it all the time. It's been, I would say just a really great learning opportunity and also just really good in terms of how do I want to grow? Not what does this company want me to grow in, where do I want to go both with my business and with myself.
Kim (10:24):
And I loved your point about entrepreneurship because I think that for some people it's a great fit because if you always want to learn, you always want to challenge yourself. But it requires a lot of inner work. I find, especially obviously we work together, so I coach people in, it's not just about content creation, but it's really about deciding you are worthy of putting yourself out there to quiet. Then I get a voices and then we learn the communication processes. So I realized like, wow, it is so much of this and I went through it myself. But I think you enjoy learning something new every day, being self-directed, deciding what you want to learn and what you don't want to learn, what you want to delegate out. It is a great match and there's nobody forcing you this year you're going to learn to do X, and you're like, eh, I don't really want to do that. But I think that there's so many things to your point about that's fun and challenging, but you really have to have the drive and you have to be self-motivated. I think it's a lot easier just to have a job and get your paycheck every other Wednesday.
Marissa (11:22):
I agree. I agree. And it's interesting, every once in a while on this journey, my husband will look at me on a day that I'm just down and out or really feeling it or really like, gosh, I got to put myself out there again tomorrow. I don't know if I want to. And he'll be like, okay, do you want to go back? Do you want to just go get the job? That would be easier. Is that what you want? And I always look at him and I'm like, hell no. And then just pick right back up and move on.
Kim (11:49):
Isn't this so funny? I guest lecture at Syracuse and the professor who brought me in, he and I have worked together at different points, and every once in a while he'll look at me and say, so there's this role. Do you ever think about going back before he can even say the words going back? I'm like, Nope.
Marissa (12:07):
Nope. Stop you right there. I know. So I stay close with a lot of people I used to work with. One of them is the CEO, and I had him on the podcast the other week and he was like, many people take breaks and then come back and he's looking at me like, wink wink. Anytime. And every time I'm like, maybe one day. But definitely not yet, not right now.
Kim (12:28):
I always start with these tips that I have personally learned on the show from my guests. I say, thank you. I am so flattered, but that's not right for me right now. Right?
Marissa (12:38):
I'm so flattered. Thank you. I love that. I'm going to use that. But
Kim (12:41):
Actually this, I learned from the whole food CEO about how to say no to stuff about being like, thank you for thinking of me. I'm not able to commit at this time. But you make it like, oh my goodness, I am so appreciative. Where it was really like, I'm not joining that volunteer group, right?
Marissa (12:57):
Yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm going to use that. I'm going to start using that even with my clients. We were talking about that the other day, how it doesn't feel enough to just say no to things. It feels like you need to do, make it a big deal or perk it up or have a reason why this other thing I'm going to go do. So I've also been practicing just a flat note and getting cozy with that.
Kim (13:20):
And now I want to talk about marketing. So Marissa, Marissa and I worked together. We've worked together twice at least. At least so far. Talk to me about before we worked together in terms of challenges in your business and what you were struggling with, what were you struggling with in your business?
Marissa (13:35):
Oh my gosh. Just putting myself out there, what you said just a minute ago about believing that we're worthy of putting our message out and being the one to do it. So I come from a communications background. I'm used to communicating. I'd know the basics of how to put messaging together. It is completely different to do it for yourself and to do it for your own business. And I just kept hitting these roadblocks of not only not being able to craft the right message, I kept getting in my head about was it right, is it wrong? How will it evolve? But also then being the one on the front lines to actually speak it. And so I think I'm a little bit spontaneous, and I think you came across my Instagram with the bootcamp the first time or the day of bootcamp for the videos and everything, and I was just done, click, let's do this. Because I knew that I needed a partner to help push me and to help me believe in myself. And that's why I love working with you because you're direct and you're honest, but you also help me recognize myself. Do you know what I mean? Recognizing myself, the potential so that I can actually believe and go forward and put the message out there. So thank you. I really appreciate it.
Kim (14:43):
Yay. And then so what Marissa was referring to is we did this shoot say in the spring of 2023, and we had founders and business owners come in and we shot beautiful professional videos that I bring on my award-winning cinematographer. I direct it and produce it with my team, and I got to meet Marissa and then Kathy, who's also in our mastermind. And so it was like, I think five or six founders. And what I loved about that was I think it's a few things. One of the things I see a lot of people struggling with is that you feel like that video you're putting out there is the essence of you, and it has to be exactly you. And if it's not perfect, it's not worthy. And I'm like, this is one piece of work in your art gallery. And I think that just putting out a high quality piece of content that really does explain who you are and what you do in a quality clear way.
(15:36):
It's your only opportunity to really define yourself. Because when people go to your website, it's all text. When people go to a social page, there's a lot of content there. So you need that kind of thing where you're like, I am going to for myself, put my stake in the ground and say, this is who I am. And even I have clients who've been on TV or been on podcasts, those are awesome for establishing credibility. Awesome. But they are showing a certain point, part of you, or they're getting your input on a topic. When do you talk to Cameron and you're like, this is who I am and this is what I'm about. And also showcase your smile and showcase your warmth. And I think to your point, a lot of us forget this is going to sound so obnoxious, but I only work with people that I want to work with. I feel like if I meet someone and I don't think it's a match, I'm like, this is not a match. Because I have to believe that me being your cheerleader is going to get you somewhere and I have to think that you can get to the next level. Otherwise it's just not fun and life is too short,
Marissa (16:29):
Right? Well, and you want to add value for someone, you want to be able to help them get to the next level. So yeah, you have to. And that is meaningful because I think for us coming into it especially, so listeners, I've done two things with Kim, the bootcamp or the day of video shoot, and then also in the mastermind. What I love about the mastermind is you're helping me to think beyond, it's okay, we've got the video, we've got the content now, what's the beyond and how do I leverage all of it? How do I create stories? How do I really think more strategically about the content that I'm putting out? And not to the degree of perfection, but to the degree of high quality, get it out there. And that's helped expand my mind too. And it works. People are reaching out to me that I've never known before. And that for me is huge. Most of my business has always been on word of mouth or people who knew me. And so now for this to start happening where I'm actually getting people who I've never met before, that's exciting. That's great.
Kim (17:26):
So you're seeing clients coming in through the content.
Marissa (17:28):
Yes. And actually that one I told you about, so Kim taught me about how to use featured and quoted in a few pieces to get some more PR material out. And I've gotten a couple clients coming through that. So I mean, just little things can make a big difference.
Kim (17:42):
That's so great. And so what Marissa's talking about is I do a mastermind group called Thought Leadership through content. It's kind of like a next level for professionals. But I do, what I love for me personally is because I worked in journalism, but then I also worked in video production. I like to remind people you're not just people like, oh, how do I make a video? Or what text should I buy? I'm like, that's very sort of, it's a part of it that's just the how to part of it. But the actual overarching is like this is a part of your business development. Yes. This is a part of your outreach. You're not just making a video to make a video. You're not just putting a quote just to put a quote, but it's a part of just who you are as a personal brand or as a business brand.
(18:19):
And that's what I love about thought leadership through content. I think about putting yourself out there, becoming a thought leader using content, video, podcasts, blogs, text, anything, photos. I just like to reframe people's concepts of it because I do think that when people hear video, they think of a person with a camera and editing it. And I'm like, really, video is just a mechanism. It's the same thing as if you were going to write an article. And it's not that, yes, you're learning to write the article, but you're learning to figure out how do I communicate what I'm passionate about, how I help people, who I am, why you should trust me. For me, the thought leadership through content is really fun. And I get to work with people like you. I get to show you how to unlock opportunities that are unique to you. What's unique to you is totally different than the other women because they're the other people, but they all happen to be women. But it's not exclusive. It just
Marissa (19:09):
Happened that way. It just
Kim (19:10):
Happened that way. But I do think it is interesting and important to remember you as a thought leader are going to have your own strategy that's going to look different than the person next to you. Even if they do the exact same thing that you do, even if they have your same job title, what you're going to be making and how you're going to be showing up online is going to be different because you are your special sauce.
Marissa (19:29):
And that's critical because as I look at this market, right? Well, any market that your clients might be in, but I happen to be in the coaching and consulting world. It's busy. It is packed. There are a lot of people, and the only way you stand out is if your unique self shines because a lot of people can offer a lot of the same things, but someone needs to connect with who you are, and they can't do that connection. If you're not putting yourself out there, no one's going to just find you. And most likely, if all you have is something in text, it's not going to resonate the same way that a video or an audio would. So I would say also the strategy part of it for me is a big unlock because of my background. I'm a highly strategic process oriented person. And so doing a video at first for me felt like, oh, this is kind of just frivolous. I'm just putting a video out there. But once I started to work with you to connect it back to the strategy, how it can be lead gen, how it can really help me drive the business, how it can help me drive the community I want to build, then I was like, oh, okay. There's more than just my intention behind it. It's an intention for the business, and that was meaningful for me.
Kim (20:35):
Yeah, I love that you're breaking that down. I do think a lot of times we feel like we hear this voice in our head like, oh, you're a narcissist. You're just showing up just to show up. I'm like, no, no, no, no. It's for your business. Even if I didn't want to show up, I've been an on-air reporter, but when it came to me just talking about myself on social media, I felt the same thing. People are going to think you're silly or you're narcissistic. And then I'm like, wait a second. How is anyone going to want to work with me if they don't hear me and they don't know me? And I also think you have a great personality. I have a good personality. I'm engaging, and I know how to talk to people that would be not smart for me to be hiding behind blog posts.
(21:13):
I'm a better communicator verbally, and I'm better at engaging people in person and on video than I am in a blog post or in an article. And so that's not a smart strategic move for people who really are. And a lot of when you talk about coaches, real estate agents, consultants, truly our special sauce is our personality. And so you're actually hiding. I like to say hiding from the camera is hiding from clients. You are doing yourself a huge disservice by not showing up, especially when you know that when you show up, you can close people.
Marissa (21:46):
Yes, exactly. Well, and I think that was also the big unlock. I've had several people tell me, I'm picking you just because of your energy. I've built this wonderful methodology. I feel real good about my strategy and the things that I do. And they're like, oh, no, I just want to work with you, your energy. And I'm like, oh gosh, okay. There's something in that. You've really got to pay attention to it.
Kim (22:07):
I love that. I do. I think you have really amazing energy, and I meant to tell you merc's in our group, and I feel like you always bring such positivity and support to other people. When we come to a group to be a thought leader through content, we're also working on other things, confidence, strategy, messaging, believing in ourself, business growth. You show up with such positivity and support for everyone else that I love that.
Marissa (22:26):
No, thank you. Thanks. Yeah, I love
Kim (22:28):
That. And to your point about people wanting to work with you, I had a podcast I went on just like I've done dozens of podcasts. I was a guest on a podcast and this ran as a podcast or a LinkedIn live video. I had people ask me to meet and immediately be like, I knew this is the girl I have to work with. I love that. From that podcast, they're like, I knew I had to work with you, not even from my podcast. I was a guest on someone. And to your point, you have to show up in the way that you realize people are going to be able to see your energy and feel your energy that is uniquely you. And that's going to be business development. That's going to be revenue growth. That's not talking about narcissism. We're not talking about reality stars. We're not talking about influencer. I'm not going to make anyone an influencer. I'm going to help you be a thought leader and I'm going to help you get mine.
Marissa (23:11):
Yes, yes, exactly. And that's a big distinction because especially on social media, I've an aversion to the idea of being an influencer, but I'm definitely tapped into the idea of being a thought leader and sharing unique perspective that not everybody's talking about. And that to me, there's value in that. There's value in what you're doing for your clients and how you bring forward that information. And I feel the same way about what I'm putting out. And now I just have a lot more confidence to do it. Still a ways to go. I know there's more opportunity there, but there's something exciting about that too, to know that there's still a gap to fill.
Kim (23:44):
I love that. And so you feel, for you, what's been the biggest transformation from us working together and putting out content? Understanding that
Marissa (23:52):
The confidence to do it. The confidence to just start doing it. And that was a big block for me, especially before the video shoot. I mean, I remember sitting down to talk to my husband about it. I was like, I'm going to invest a lot of money in order to be able to, my big in order to be able to was know that I can know that I can do this and believe in myself to continue doing it. And that wasn't just because of, it was everything you put into how the shoot went, how you helped us craft messaging in advance, the way you pumped me up on the day. And then you continued the relationship. And it's been, I mean, I'd say that continues to be the thing. Every time I get off a mastermind call, I'm like, yes, I could do this. And that's big.
Kim (24:33):
I love that. I know you mentioned one before. I'd love to hear what are some of the other positive results you've had from our work together? I love, I'm always like, tell me the wins. Share me the link.
Marissa (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So definitely clients coming in. I landed a workshop with a big Fortune 500 company that I would not have gotten if I wasn't putting more content out. And then also, a lot of what I've been focused on at the beginning of the mastermind with you was also putting myself out there for other media, so podcasts and articles. So I got the featured article. I got two podcasts. I mean, still working towards more podcasts. And then I think it'll also help advance Next year I want to start doing more speaking engagements. I haven't really put myself out there in that way yet, but everything that you're helping me to build will certainly contribute to that, and I know it'll start to happen.
Kim (25:16):
That's so exciting. And also, one of the things is speaking engagements come in. Actually, I have a podcast episode out with Dorie Clark about speaking engagements come in when you're putting out content, and they're actually not from cold outreach. So my first paid speaking gig came, I was a guest on a podcast,
Marissa (25:33):
And then someone heard it or that,
Kim (25:35):
I don't even know if they heard me, but I think they heard me. They were like, you were a guest on someone's podcast that I was listening to and I want to have you at my conference. I was like, love it. Yes. And that was my first paid speaking gig. And so I wasn't even pitching myself, so I wasn't even pitching myself for speaking engagement. So once you start putting out the content out there and you have those accolades, which you have, it's like it's going to happen. Yeah.
Marissa (25:56):
Yeah, exactly. That's exciting. I feel like 2024, man. It's the year.
Kim (26:00):
It is the year. I love that. Okay, Marissa, talk to me about work-life design. And I want to tell people listening, Marissa works in work slash life design, which I think is very cool, and it's a new concept to me. When I heard Marissa talking about work-life design, I really was like, I've been thinking about this for two and a half years, but I didn't have a word for it. And so I was so excited to hear about from Marissa. So Marissa, tell me about work-life design.
Marissa (26:25):
So I get really geeky and excited about this because what's interesting is work-life design is really not so much about finding greater or more balance. I believe that work-life balance is a joke, and thank you, by the way, for helping me to come up with that. But it's a joke because the idea of balance makes you think of this scale, literally a scale where you've got work on one side and life on the other side, and you're trying to figure out how to make the two balance. And the fact is they don't. They never balance equally and they never will. So we shouldn't even think about it in terms of balance. And so what work-life design allows us to do is it allows us to think about work and life and how we can intentionally design it in a way that works for us in your life.
(27:06):
What comes first, what's actually really important to you? And so often when we position things as work-life balance and trying to put those two things together in a way that they're equal, it ends up actually meaning that we put more effort into work than we do our lives. And many of us, especially in American culture, do that. And so design is about saying, you know what? Take those things off the scale. Forget the scale, forget the balance. I'm going to actually design how I want work to fit into life. So rather than designing the two to be equal, you're actually saying, I want my life to include a lot of different things and I'm going to decide how work fits into it and what work enables me to do with my life. Let's be real. We make money by working. So it helps us do all the other things like I'm a realist here, but you get to decide how you integrate those pieces.
(27:53):
And the principles of work-Life designer are structured around the concept of human-centered design, which is what I studied in my corporate life and my employee experience consulting work. So for me, I'm like, Ooh, I get to combine the best of two things and help people get real about how to actually integrate work and life. How does someone create their own work life design? So it starts first with actually getting real with yourself about what you want. Just imagine when was the last time, well, you might be different because like you said, you've been thinking about it for two years. But I think the number one aha for my clients is when I sit down and I ask them, what do you actually want? And they stop and they sit back and they're like, oh, no one's asked me that before, or I haven't asked myself that, or I'm not sure.
(28:40):
And so the number one principle of it is that you are at the center of the design. And so if you don't actually know what work life, what you want it to be for yourself, then you got to do that work first and kind of uncover what does balance look like for you? What does it mean to design work life on your own terms? Once you get straight with what you actually want, it's about being creative in the way that you design it. And so in the same way that you said so often your clients, yes, you teach them the communication tools, but you also have to help them get over some hurdles. There's some mind games that go on inside our heads. The same thing applies to work-life design. I can't tell you how often someone can say, well, I know that I want more joy in my life, or I know that I want more time to be outside.
(29:24):
But when they sit down to actually create that boundary, there's a whole story in their head about why they shouldn't. We walk around all day long telling ourselves, work harder, work harder, do more, do more. And the second something like rest or leisure comes up, we're like, wait, rest, leisure, why would I do that? So the second part after you figure out what you want is to believe that you deserve it. And we do a lot of mindset work to help people get to that place because it isn't easy, especially for women and the culture that we have here, especially in America. And then the third part is you can't make any of any changes in your life. I'm a firm believer of this. You got to make one to two changes at a time. You cannot try to boil the ocean. You got to do one to two things like pick two.
(30:05):
That's what we work on. We pick on two non-negotiables like what's your thing? Is it you're going to come home for dinner and have your phone put away? Is it that you're going to check your email at 6:00 AM so that you can have breakfast on your own and not thinking about work? Whatever those non-negotiables are, pick two and get really critical about the systems, tools and village that you need for that non-negotiable to be possible. So when you think about a system, it might be something as simple as saying, well, it's six o'clock, I have a reminder on my phone, and I've set it so that my computer automatically shuts off. I'm talking get super specific to make yourself hold your non-negotiable tools. I like to get really creative. We have ai. Now, our lives could be a whole lot easier if we start tapping into more tools.
(30:48):
And then for the village, I'm a big believer you can't set these non-negotiables without talking about them with the people around you, your boss, your colleagues, your team, your spouse, your family. Let people know what your non-negotiables are so that they can help you hold them. And so that you can create this environment that respects the balance, because otherwise other people are just going to keep infringing on your boundaries. And once you've done that, then you can just put it on repeat. You do it for two things, you get it solid, you see what you think, iterate. Then you could do it for two more, then you can do it for two more. Eventually you've got a life that feels like you designed it rather than something that's happening to you.
Kim (31:27):
This is for people in corporate settings or work for themselves? Either one.
Marissa (31:31):
Yes. Entrepreneurs or people in corporate settings. A lot of my work right now is with people in corporate settings, but I have a couple of entrepreneurs that I'm starting to work with, so I'm excited. Sign up, call me. Yeah,
Kim (31:42):
Marissa, green reimagine ambition. I love also that you really break it down. I do think it's like these things are not theoretical. You can read a book or you can read an article and you can believe it in your head, but until you're putting it into practice, it's not going to change your life. Going to one webinar about how to improve your life is not going to do it. It's all of the things that you're doing. It's all of the, to your point, it's both accountability but also support. So it's the accountability from your partner, your spouse, your boss, and the support. And I like how you're saying, I remember when I had, I was leading an 18 person team when my oldest was little, I have to turn off my phone at six. I can say, oh, oh, they're working me too hard. Actually, no one was urgently calling me to respond to the emails within the two hours of bedtime. So it's like, first of all, we're in control, but we are often a complicit partner in this. And so that we have to acknowledge that and then also get our on board. So I love how you broke it down in terms of 1, 2, 3, because you can't have success without any when you're missing one of those.
Marissa (32:47):
Exactly. Well, and what you just said was my biggest aha after leaving corporate, I left corporate feeling like, gosh, that corporate environment, I can't believe they made me blah, blah, blah. And I worked at an amazing company and loved my job, and I still left feeling like, oh, the environment. I walked out of there. And after doing the work, I was like, well, dang, it actually wasn't the environment. It was me. I created that. I created it over multiple years. I created it because of conditioning. I mean, there were a lot of reasons why, but we often think it's our environment. But a lot of the time we do have so much more control than we think we do. It just requires us to get more control. And I kind of frame it around, rewrite the stories in our minds. You can live by the stories that you've got running in there right now, or you can rewrite them. And I'm not suggesting that's super easy. That's why coaching is important. That's why having your village is important, but it is very possible. And man, if I can do it, when I say I was a workaholic, I was a workaholic. And so for me to sit here now, my friends that have met me since I left corporate, they just don't even know that old Marissa when I talk about it, they're like, you were what you did. They can't even believe it. I'm just so different now.
Kim (33:58):
But it's so funny. I've been trying to step away from when people say, how are you? I've been trying to step away from busy, so busy. I think especially I live in New York City, I think that's that it's, what's it called? It's not the avatar, but it's the representation of all the things that are not good for us. It's like being busy shouldn't be a badge of honor. If you're working on things you're excited about or you have cool things going on at home that you're excited about, that's fine. But some people are like, how are things? I'm like, they're really good. And then I'll say, work has been really good, a little too much in certain quarters, but overall really good. And so to your point about being aware of the narratives, I think it's easy to just be like, I quit and dah, dah, dah. Any of our workaholism is just going to follow us. And so until you work through that, that's why I love that you focus on this is I tell my husband, okay, I am working for myself so I can get more time with the kids and be in control of my schedule. So he'll come knock on the door, I 55 and he'll say, you said you want to join the kids for dinner. I'm not telling you what to do, but you've said this. And I'm like, thank you, thank you.
Marissa (35:03):
It's that partnership. And I think it allows us to settle into it because creating this space is not easy. Our bodies and our minds have gotten used to being on all the time and to being on the hamster wheel. And what I've started to realize, especially this year when I've really tried to slow down my first year of entrepreneurship, I did not slow down. That's how I actually realized I was the problem and not the environment. I just kept going in a new way and burnt out, not to the same degree, but pretty much. So this year has been the slowdown, and I am realizing I'm real uncomfortable when it's slow, real uncomfortable. And so I've needed a lot of tools in my toolbox and a lot of people in my village to remind me that slowing down is safe, that slowing down is okay. And the slowdown to speed up later or the slowdown to build intentionally from a business standpoint is also okay. You don't have to always hustle. You just have to get used to working in a different way and recognize that it's safe to do so.
Kim (36:02):
And one of the things also to that point, and to we work together, is also looking at slow moments, being like, great, how do I plan out messaging, content pitching, let's say I don't really, I'm not so busy for three weeks a gym, enjoy, take a walk, whatever. But use that lull to focus on things that when you're really grinding on client work, it's very hard to shift into a different mode of messaging and content making and marketing. So take that opportunity to say, okay, I'm going to execute on things I already have ideas for, learn something new, take a course. And so I think that that's important. Right now I'm doing the same. Okay. I was like, alright, December is going to be a little less crazy for me. I blocked off three days and I said, on these three days, I'm going to watch this online course I bought.
(36:47):
I'm going to learn about webinar funnels. And this other thing is like, I'm going to check my operations on this part of my business. And so I think it's that time of saying awesome, not awesome. I mean, I love my clients, but I've had some clients are winding down, some of my groups are continuing. I know what my next month is going to look like. January is going to be bonkers. So in December, I'm saying, okay, in those lulls, instead of me being like, oh my God, I'm not busy. It's like, how can I make this a better productive time? I like what you're saying is know yourself and know that being slow can feel scary because it speaks to our brain of slow is bad. Slow means unsuccessful. Slow means you're in failure. Doesn't mean that it's a natural ebb and flow. Knowing myself, how do I turn that into a content relaxing, productive moment?
(37:35):
I think that it's not realistic for people like us who are used to go going at all times to be like, you have three weeks where you have no meetings or appointments and it's going to be relaxing for you in theory, but in practice, it's like you're like, nerve. Oh my God. You're like, oh my God, no one's ever going to call me again. I swear every year I've stopped doing it. Now. Last year was really great, not just like, I don't mean financially, I just mean I have so many clients that I love. I had all these speaking gigs. I'm doing work. That's great. I feel really, I feel like I'm getting a lot of gratification from my students and clients. It's just been great. But before that, I feel like every year I'd like, every quarter I'd be like, no one's ever going to hire me. I'm a fraud. I don't know what I'm doing. And of course I know what I'm doing. Of course I know what I'm doing. But you still think that somehow your business going to go up in flames.
Marissa (38:23):
Yeah. Yeah. The imposter syndrome is real.
Kim (38:25):
Anyway, Marissa, this is fantastic. It is just as good as I knew it would be,
Marissa (38:30):
Marissa. Well, good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is so
Kim (38:33):
Fun. And how can our listeners who are clearly now in love with you, how can they find
Marissa (38:37):
You? That's right. That's right. Okay. Yes. You can find us in two ways. One is marissagreen.com. Super easy. So head there. You can find information about my work with companies as well as individuals. And then listen to the Reimagine Ambition podcast. You can find us on all of your listening platforms. And we talk all about work life for parents, like how to calm that chaos, and some really great tips from a lot of experts in all things work-life Parenthood.
Kim (39:02):
Awesome. Thank you so much, Marissa.
Marissa (39:03):
Yeah, thanks Kim.
Kim (39:08):
Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Rittberg.