Ep. 103/ How to Do Sales in a Non-Sleazy and Profitable Way: Krista Demcher
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Want to sell better? Worried about feeling sleazy as you have sales calls?
Krista Demcher teaches us how to sell better - in an authentic way that doesn't make us feel gross!
You will learn:
The biggest mistakes people make in sales (8:15)
How to uncover objections and turn them into sales on calls (12:05)
How to “storysell” (18:00)
How to sell using Instagram Direct Messages (26:00)
How to create urgency and build value for your offer (33:47)
More about Krista: Krista is a sales coach on a mission to help entrepreneurs sell without feeling sleazy. She does this through ACORN, a framework that teaches how to create authentic connections with customers through the art of storyselling. Krista has helped over 1,000 clients achieve remarkable results, such as 10Xing revenue, landing major speaking engagements, and launching six-figure businesses in under three months. A LinkedIn Learning course author who has been featured on NBC, CBS, Fox, and The List, and hosts the top 1.5% business podcast She Sells He Sells with her husband Brian, Krista has her fair share of pinch-me moments. But, as cool as those accolades are, her proudest accomplishment is building a business that creates incredible impact for others while allowing her to be there each day when her 3 kids come home from school.
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Want to sell better? Worried about feeling sleazy as you have sales calls?
Krista Demcher teaches us how to sell better - in an authentic way that doesn't make us feel gross!
You will learn:
The biggest mistakes people make in sales (8:15)
How to uncover objections and turn them into sales on calls (12:05)
How to “storysell” (18:00)
How to sell using Instagram Direct Messages (26:00)
How to create urgency and build value for your offer (33:47)
Quotes from our guest:
“I think the more that AI and automations come in, the higher the need for that personal connection and personalization in the messages is.”
“When you're telling stories and when you're telling your own personal stories, always try to zoom out and ask yourself, what is the theme here? What did I learn? What are the universal desires or feelings that then can be applied to my client's story and challenge yourself to do a bit of that.”
“Money and time are the biggest objections we get for everything. The way that I start to think about it is there's finite money, there's finite time, but yet there is money and there is time. So where is that money and where is that time going?”
“Story selling is here's a feeling: I have felt that, or I've worked with other people that have felt that. Here's the journey I took to get through that feeling and here's where I am or the other person is now.”
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KRISTA’S LINKS:
Krista’s "What's Your Sales Style" quiz
Kim (00:02):
If you are looking to learn how to get better at sales, this is the episode for you. Krista Demcher is here and she helps you with everything from how to have the right mindset to selling the Biggest Mistakes. People use tips on how to sell in the dms. Yes, she says it is possible and she does it. Many other people do it. They actually sell successfully inside Instagram without even getting on a sales call. We have so much nitty gritty helpful lessons to crush it at sales. Make sure to stick around.
(00:32):
Welcome to the Exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards, an in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the Grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimrittberg.com.
(01:34):
I'm really excited because Krista Demcherr is here and she's going to talk to us about sales. I want to share a few things about sales for myself. I hate sales, which like many people, I've always felt like I hated sales. Now that I run my business, I've realized sales is a necessary evil, but actually it's in our head that we even think it's an evil, that actually we don't need to think of it as selling. And over time, I've gotten better at understanding it's actually an offer we're putting out there and if it's the right fit for someone, it will truly help them. And now that I've had so many rounds of my video bootcamp and so many people across the country saying how much video bootcamp has helped them, it's changed their business. It's the best thing they've ever done. They've closed so many clients.
(02:16):
Because of my work with them, I now feel more confident selling because I do know that my offer is really, really solid and people are going to get so much value out of it. It took me a long time to really even get in that mindset. Honestly. When I was in my twenties, I had a jewelry business and I loved selling it. I would sell in Bloomingdale's on the weekends and I loved jewelry, so I loved what I was making and I didn't feel like I was selling it. I was just explaining the necklaces. But when it came to pitching magazines to feature my jewelry, I always felt like I was pushing it on them. And looking back, I wish I had the mindset of this person's job is to write about fashion and jewelry. Why not my jewelry? I believed in it. That's why I was selling it.
(02:55):
I thought it was cool and so did other people. I think that longer arc of me understanding that sales isn't a dirty word and sales is a potential exchange of things between two people. And when you really believe in what you're selling, your obligation is to understand how to sell it better and how to really help people see what you have as being valuable. And so I'm very, really, really value sales. I listened to Krista, our guest on one of her podcasts. He sells, she Sells, or I listened to her webinar and I just really liked her perspective on sales and how she coaches people on how to sell. So I was like, she needs to come on the show. We haven't talked about sales yet, so here's everything you need to know about sales. And a quick aside that my Taylor Swift eras is happening, it's going to happen.
(03:42):
It's about to happen. I'm about to go to Taylor Swift and I will promise that I'll come back and tell you all about it. Alright, everyone here is in for a treat. If you want to learn all about sales, we have Krista here with us. Krista Demcher is a sales coach on a mission to help entrepreneurs sell without feeling sleazy. I'm here for that. She does this through Acorn, a framework that teaches how to create authentic connections with customers through the art of story selling. Ooh, I like that story. Selling Krista has helped over a thousand clients achieve remarkable results such as 10 Xing revenue landing major speaking engagements and launching six figure businesses in under three months. A LinkedIn learning course author who has been featured on N-B-C-C-B-S Fox in the list. She hosts the top 1.5% business podcast she sells. He sells with her husband Brian. Chris has her fair share of pinch me moments, but as cool as these accolades are, her proudest accomplishment is building a business that creates incredible impact for others while allowing her to be there each day when her three kids come home from school. Thank you so much for joining us.
Krista (04:37):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited for our conversation. I
Kim (04:40):
Like how you encapsulated the impact and the kids in that last sentence of what you do. I do feel like for my clients, I don't want them feeling like I only do this so I could be here for my kids. I'm like, no, no, I really love what I do, but also I love that I can be there for my kids.
Krista (04:53):
Exactly, exactly. I think that's why so many of us are drawn to entrepreneurship because it's not easy for sure, but we get to call the shots, make our own schedule. And for me, I've actually been an entrepreneur since my oldest daughter was three. She's 17 now, so it's been a while and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Kim (05:11):
So I am dying to dive right in because I feel like we haven't had anyone on the show in sales. I personally would love to know more about sales very briefly. I'd love for listeners to hear about your backstory. I think it's really interesting how you came to learn how to sell. You are not a natural salesperson. Tell me a little bit about
Krista (05:28):
That. Yeah, my whole life I was always looking for what's the thing I'm going to do in my life, follow the path, what's next? And I was drawn to all these professions that were helping professions. I thought I wanted to be an occupational therapist, realized I didn't like touching people that I didn't know. Then went on to counseling, loved counseling. I spent eight years there, but it was not a meritocracy when it comes to efforts in results out in the form of my paycheck. And I got a little frustrated with that. And at that same time, I had my oldest daughter, so did the stay-at-home mom gig for a year. Felt like I was going a little bit crazy and found myself starting a business where I was selling accessories and I love the accessories, super cute, thought, I'm just going to wear them. People ask me where I got them and they'll buy it. Isn't that
Kim (06:19):
How it works?
Krista (06:20):
It's cute. They'll buy it. And I realized very quickly that is not how it works. And so I had this epiphany moment that really changed it all for me. I was sitting on the couch with my husband. I was about a year into the business. I have had three months of $0 in sales. My husband was actually working in sales, he is now sales development, sales training, but at the time was a sales manager. And I was like, I'm doing everything. I'm following the scripts. I'm reaching out to people, it's just not landing. And he said to me, well, you kind of suck at selling. You're doing it the wrong way. I was so mad because nobody likes somebody telling you that you're not good at something, especially somebody you love and respect. But I also know now looking back, I was mad because I knew he was right.
(07:09):
I really was just going through the motions. I think that's what a lot of us do. We go through the motions. We feel like I have this great product, I'm going to put it out there. And so I kind of had to rewire the way I looked at selling. And really for me, and I think for most people, we need to sell ourselves first. We need to sell ourselves on the idea that we are the expert. We do have something of great value to share, and then we need to sell ourselves to the client beyond the product. So why am I the trusted person to give you these accessories or why am I the trusted person to teach you video in your case? And when I started doing that in a way that felt good and authentic to me by incorporating stories and my personality and my vibe, it changed. Not overnight because nothing good happens overnight. But I feel like over the course of the next year, I started to really gain momentum. And then that business went from very bad to thriving. And after about eight years of doing that, I realized this is time to take what I've learned and bring it to a wider audience. And so I've been doing that with my company Acorn for the past four years.
Kim (08:10):
Talk to me, what would you say, why does so many people struggle with sales? What are the biggest mistakes people are making?
Krista (08:16):
First mistake is we make it about ourselves. And I think there's so much wrapped up into that one statement. So we are worried about what other people are going to think of us. We are scared of being slimy, sleazy, pushy, all the things that we think of. And that again, is justified because many of us have had at least one, sometimes multiple sales experiences where somebody has made us feel a certain sort of way that doesn't feel good. And so we are bringing that to the table, all these preconceived notions of sales. We also have a bit of imposter syndrome. Every one of us do in some way, shape or form. And so we feel like, well really who am I? And we put that then into the way that we show up and we start to think that I am pushing this thing on other people.
(09:02):
I am forcing someone to buy. I'm going to show up and they're going to feel this pressure to buy from me. And instead we need to kind of reframe it. We sell what we sell because we believe in it. And if you don't believe in it shouldn't be selling it. So we sell what we sell because we love it, because we know that it has the potential to make somebody's life easier, simpler, or better. When you think of the product or the service you sell like that, I like to start to really reframe the mindset and the story I'm telling myself in that. So I have this thing that I know is going to make somebody's life easier, simpler, better. I'm holding back from letting them know about it in the right way because of me. That's actually very selfish. That's actually one of the most selfish things I can do.
(09:46):
And so instead I'm offering people the opportunity to buy it. I am not forcing it down their throat. Every single person has free will. And so reframing the mindset of it's my God-given duty and gift to be able to put this in front of somebody and it's up to them if they want it or not, has really helped me. And it helps a lot of the entrepreneurs that I coach. So one of my mantras is it's not about you or it's not about me. We have to repeat to myself. It's not about me, it's about the person that I can make their life easier, simpler, better with this thing. And that really helps change the way we show up.
Kim (10:22):
There's so many aspects of that that I really like and would like to applaud. I think it's also interesting is just anything else when we don't have a lot of opportunities to sell, each sales opportunity feels weightier. So I feel like in the past year or two, my businesses, I did basically corporate consulting strategy work for video. And now I really coach a lot of people. I do so many more calls now that each know has a lot less weight. When you first start out doing a lot of calls and each know is like, oh, I needed that. I really need to get this business off the ground. You want to just start getting input, start doing the work, but you need to get the sale to get to to start doing the thing. So I think that's interesting. I'd love to ask you, I think the biggest reframe for me personally was something I wish I had learned a long time ago was what you had just said is that I'm not pushing something on someone when I invite someone on a call and I'm like, I think this program would work for you.
(11:13):
And likewise, I've talked to some people and I'm like, you're way too early. I don't even think you should I, I should work with you. There's no point in us working together right now. It's not going to be fruitful for either of us. But I think it took me a while to realize I always valued and believed in what I did, but I did envision it as me pushing it on someone. And now I'm like, well, I have dozens and dozens and dozens of people who loved this video bootcamp course, who rave about it in testimonials on video and on text that's on the website. Actually this will help you. And so I'm like, you know what? If you're someone who wants to make video, and if you're someone who believes in social media, here's this opportunity. So then I would guess my next quick question for you would be, what about when people are on the fence? They're like, oh, that's interesting. I don't know if I have money or they have hesitations. Then how do you push when you're like, oh, this person's like a maybe they already know the offer, they see the value. Then what?
Krista (12:05):
So money and time are the biggest objections we get for everything. And when we think about it, the way that I start to think about it is we don't have, there's finite money, there's finite time, but yet there is money and there is time. So it is where is that money and where is that time going if the money and the time isn't going, Kim, if you and I are on a sales call and you're asking about money or time, your money or time is going to go to something, it might not even be a competitor of mine. It might be a target trip that you need to make. And so my job is to build the value of why giving me your money and time is going to exponentially be better for you than giving it to the target run or the extra things that maybe we think we need but we don't.
(12:51):
And so it's really peeling back the layers of the onion when somebody says, I don't have time. I just like to say, oh, you don't have time. Tell me a little bit more about that and get a little bit deeper. Almost always masking something else. Even money is real. Groceries are so expensive right now, right? Things are expensive. I get that. But I also know we have money. We use money to live. And so my job is to really get to the root of what is going on with you so that I can help you see that if you are the right qualified prospect, again, you're not going to convince everybody, you're not going to persuade everybody, but I can help you see if we can put this money here. Here's how the money will multiply, here's how we can do that. And so many times that can happen in a conversation.
(13:41):
Tell me a little bit more about that or reflecting back. There's actually, it's a hostage negotiation tip that's called mirroring. So you'll say, I don't have time. And I'll say, oh, you don't have time. And then you talk a little bit more. Well, yeah, life is so busy and I'm being pulled in a million directions. Oh, you're being pulled in a million directions. And so it kind of leads you down the path to talk more. And so I can uncover maybe you say, well, I just feel like my family needs me so much and everybody needs all these things and I just have no time for me. And then I'm like, okay, you have no time for you now I want to build the value of how giving the time for you is going to make everything easier, including your family. So sometimes you can do it in a conversation.
(14:23):
Sometimes it does need to be a follow-up. And so if somebody is really putting up the walls and I feel like I'm not getting anywhere and they're like, I just need to think about it. I need more money or time. I always say kind of an assumptive, but I'll say, okay, sounds great. Today is Tuesday. I'm going to reach back out to you on Friday. Can we set up a call for them? And if they're not receptive to that, I will say, all right, I'm going to reach back out to you Friday, expect to hear from. And it is that persistence, that gentle persistence. If somebody takes the time to have a conversation with you, an initial conversation about something, they're interested in a program until they tell me no or no, not right now. I'm going to keep them warm and I'm not going to be crazy and follow up every two days, but I'm going to follow up two, three times until I kind of put them on the back burner and maybe come back to them in two or three months.
Kim (15:19):
Got it. Love that. And that was another follow up question for me. When a prospect is on a call with you and they say, not right now, but let's stay in touch, what do you advise to do in that situation?
Krista (15:29):
Again, it kind of depends on the situation and the person, but if it feels like a definitely not right now, my goal is no matter what the answer is, I want to leave you feeling better than you did when you started talking to me. So if you're on a sales call and somebody says that, I don't want there to be any like, oh, okay, fine. And them to feel weird about it. And so I always will be like, I totally hear you. I'm so excited for your growth and to watch you from the sidelines. I will make sure we're connected in some way. So obviously they're probably on your email list at that point, but I'll make sure we're connected on socials and I kind of drop them into a warm list of people that I'm just continually engaging with. And so I watch their stories.
(16:15):
I dm them about things other than what we're doing because I do want to connect with them as a person. And also when I do that, they're seeing me, they're watching my content, they're seeing that. So then the more that I go and sell publicly, they're seeing those things and then I go back to them in two, three months if I have another offer or maybe the same offer that I think will serve them, Hey, reaching out, I know we talked about this before. This is happening right now. Is this something that could be a fit for you right now? And not being afraid to ask for what you want that direct ask. I think it gets gross in sales when that's the only communication we do with people or when the communication that we do outside of that feels like the only reason we're staying in touch with them is because then we want the sale.
(17:01):
I think we have to think bigger and we're here to connect with people, and you just never know what your value can bring to their life, what their value can bring to your life. And so coming at it from this abundance mindset of that sale didn't work out, but this is somebody I'm actually really interested in. And I do feel like at some point I can help them. I'm just going to stay in touch with them and see what happens is so much better than like, oh, I'm clinging so tightly and I have to close that sale. That's where sales gets gross, and we want to stay away from that.
Kim (17:31):
Great. And this is something that I know we talked about a little bit earlier before we started recording. What is the biggest mistake that people make when selling?
Krista (17:39):
Well, there's so many, but outside of making it all about themself, which I already touched on, I think that is probably mistake number one, but mistake number two would be focusing on the facts and features instead of on the feeling. So our brain likes emotional things in simplest terms are we have an old brain and new brain. Our old brains are reptilian brain, our primitive brain. That's the brain that really then controls the logic, right? Or it spurs the logic on. And so all messages are being received by that old brain. The old brain likes things that are simple, concrete, emotional and visual. To your point about video, it likes visual things. And so we want to speak to that old brain first, and then we move to the new brain with the facts and features. And so a lot of times when we sell, we show up and we say, let me tell you about Acorn.
(18:34):
Here are the things you're going to get. Here are the templates. Here's the system, here's all the information. But yet I didn't start and say, Hey, you are brilliant. You have a great product, a great service to offer, but it probably feels really frustrating because you know can change lives, but you don't know how to get to the people because you feel gross about selling and you don't want to push things out there. This is so normal, I used to feel this too. And then I can tell my story that's appealing to the emotion. And so we want to start with feelings, stories, and I call it story selling. So a story isn't just once upon a time, I did this and this and this, and that's all about me. Story selling is here's a feeling: I have felt that, or I've worked with other people that have felt that. Here's the journey I took to get through that feeling and here's where I am or the other person is now.
(19:28):
So we want to tell stories, but we want to tell stories that spur action. And sometimes the action is just getting you to look at things in a new way or believe, start to believe things that maybe you didn't believe before. Not every story needs to end with buy now, click here, drop quiz below to get the thing. It doesn't need to be that. It can really just be like, I'm starting to influence your thoughts and your beliefs, that selling doesn't have to be sleazy, that there's a way to do it in a different way or whatever those thoughts or beliefs are that you'd want to influence.
Kim (19:59):
And I want to tell listeners that the other thing you told me earlier was that we don't ask that's a mistake, is that we're not actually asking, which I know you touched on earlier, but I do think it's important to mention to people we think we're selling, are we selling or are we just talking about our offering and not saying, and here's when it starts and how does it feel to you? And then I think one of the things that I think this overlaps with sales is that I was a producer for a long time in tv, and similar to when you're interviewing someone to get a really good interview is you need to leave that awkward pause and for someone to fill that silence. And I'm a talker, so awkward pauses are not my strong suit, but I was good at it when I needed it for media.
(20:38):
But that's an important part of sales. I never would be like. And so what do you think? Could that fit for you? Would that solve the need? You said earlier, that's not a natural way for me to talk, but it is important to leave that open space. And so I think to your point of we don't ask. We're not asking. We're not asking for someone to say yes. And then, okay, some other follow-up questions for you. Is there a general ratio that people should be aiming for of how many calls they're on to how many closes they have?
Krista (21:08):
Yeah, like a close rate.
Kim (21:10):
Close rate. That's exactly what I meant, Krista. What is a good close rate? Yeah,
Krista (21:16):
Yeah. Well, 50% is a great close rate if you can get there. I think that's an ideal to work towards. When you start though, it's hard to get there because so much of this takes practice and I hesitate. I really always shy away from percentages, close rates, even though in my own business I like to look at that. I hate to tell other people to do that because especially when you're first starting or really trying to build that selling confidence muscle, we hear 50% is a great close rate and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm closing one out of every 20 calls. I'm nowhere close. This is 5%. This really sucks. And so the more you do it, the easier it gets. To your point, Kim, of stopping to ask, I instead like to, let's measure your success by how comfortable you felt in the conversation when you begin, how many questions did you ask and then shut your mouth to really let them answer.
(22:12):
Did you say, at the end of my sales calls, I like to say, based on what you told me, X, Y, and Z, here's why my program would work for you, A, B, and C. Are you ready to join us and just ask. So those are the ways that I like to really measure my sales success when it comes to selling on a masterclass or a webinar. I mean, a 5% conversion rate is amazing if you can do that. So it's all different sales methodologies really require or have different benchmarks, but I'm always aiming for that 50% also knowing that I'm qualifying some of those prospects before they get on the phone
Kim (22:50):
With, right, there's not cold, it's not a stranger. This is someone who already researched your webpage, heard you on a thing, right?
Krista (22:56):
Yes.
Kim (22:56):
And then all those, that 50% include second follow-ups, or is that just close on that call or just some of those required a second follow-up
Krista (23:04):
Thinking in total. I don't actually do a ton of sales calls anymore. I really sell in my dms quite a bit with voice memos. And I think depending on what the level of offering is now, if you're doing a done for you service, you have a very high ticket product, then yeah, you're going to get on sales calls with people. My husband and I do consulting or we do messaging and sales strategy, so we're on sales calls with those people, of course, because they're not just going to hand over multiple thousands of dollars without talking to you first. So it really depends what your product is, what your offering is. But I do think I've sold programs up to six, $7,000 that I close in dms. No problem. When you have that good content foundation, when you have good sales messaging, then just going back and forth on voice memo with people, you can definitely close sales there if you know how to have the right conversations.
Kim (23:59):
And there's something in the dms, the whole conversation, you're doing voice memos in the dms?
Krista (24:04):
Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. It's either a lead that's coming through, they're reaching out to me and saying, oh, I have some questions, this looks interesting. Or it is me reaching out to them. So I will look at who's engaging in the content and maybe who's messaging me a question. And I do reach out to people, not cold but warm. Hey, I know we talked about this in the past. I don't know if you saw, but I'm launching this program based on what we talked about. I think this could be a great fit. And then I'll always say, tell me a little bit about where you're at in business right now so we can start talking about if this could be a fit for you. And then it's just kind of a lot of back and forth, a lot of conversations. It's again, a lot of listening, me asking the questions and just gathering information A to C if it is a fit.
(24:55):
Because as you and I know, we don't want people in our programs working with us if we don't believe we can get them success. There is no good in capturing somebody's money and then them not having success. That hurts your business way more than it helps your business. So you want the right fit people in. And I think with good mess, sales messaging and story selling, that's how we get the right people talking to us. And so then reaching out to that person listening, and if you do feel like it's a good fit, saying, Hey, I think this program is great, here's the information. So having a really strong sales page, having really strong sales emails that are going that they're getting. And I think when all of that is there, the conversations really, my sales conversations really aren't that long, but it's because there's so much else going on. They're listening to the podcast, they're on my emails, they're reading those, they're paying attention to social content. So I'm answering a lot of questions. I'm overcoming objections publicly. And so the things that then we talk about are maybe very personal even. Well, when are the calls? I have this going on, could I work that in my schedule? That sort of thing.
Kim (26:00):
How would you recommend in terms of, I love the idea of selling in the dms. I have actually sold a lot of spots in my courses in the dms, which was, I like to laugh that four years ago if you told me I'd be selling clients in Instagram, direct message, I'd be like, but my Instagram just has my children. But anyway, talk to me about building that rapport with someone in the dms. What's the best way to start? And then how long from, Hey, nice to meet you. Thanks for the follow to continuing the relationship to starting to pitch them on, not pitch them, introduce them to your offer.
Krista (26:32):
Yeah, I think first rule of thumb is abundance. So remembering there are so many people out there, and that's important because when we are having a conversation that feels like, oh, they're not responding back to me or I'm hitting a wall here where we get pushy, slimy, sleazy, all those things we don't want to be is when we're just like, but it's got to be this person. I've got to close this one person. It's kind of like dating sales is a lot like dating. We get the signals, they're into me or they're not into me. And when we're getting the, they're ghosting me, they're not into me. Bless and release that is okay, move on. And so coming at it from a place of abundance, and it's why content matters and it's why good content that speaks to your ideal audience matters. The algorithms. I mean, you and I could probably have a whole conversation lamenting how hard it is for visibility.
(27:28):
Right now things are not necessarily in our favor. However, I'm reminded again and again, we don't need tens of thousands of people seeing our thing. We need a thousand of the right people. If you have a video that has a thousand views, but it's a thousand people that are interested in that, that's amazing. And so looking at who is commenting, looking at showing up in your stories, talking on your stories, who's responding? I use polls a lot in my Instagram and Facebook stories, who's responding to those things? And then they kind of get on my radar. So then I'm like, okay, here's 20 people that have been engaged. I can see they're opening my emails, they're clicking on my links, so then I'm going to intentionally engage with them. So I'm going to start paying attention to what they're doing. I'm going to focus on just like let me get to know Kim as a human instead of Kim as a prospect.
(28:14):
And so I'm going to be responding to them. And then I'm always looking for an open door. So perhaps it's a freebie that I put out there and I know they downloaded it. There's an open door so I can go back and say, Hey, I know you downloaded that freebie. Did you get a chance to look at it? Tell me what you think. That sometimes is cold, but it's not really cold because they've engaged before. Maybe they don't know that I know they engaged, but they did. And so reaching out and just having the conversations and then tell me about what's hard for you when it comes to selling or whatever your niche is and having those conversations. And then as soon as I hear, yeah, I have a hard time with X, Y, and Z, if that's something that I know my program helps with, then I'll say, that's actually exactly what I do.
(28:59):
Would you like more information on that? I can send you the website so you can take a look at it. So I'm always asking for permission before I'm throwing something down someone's throat. And the other piece of it is kind of like you really have to sharpen your eq, your emotional intelligence, because it's like dating. You have to read the room, you have to be able to know into me, not into me might be into me. You just need a little bit more dates with me. And that comes with practice. And so the other big rule of thumb here is like you got to try. You just have to try. It has to be messy. You might have a few sales conversations gone bad. We all have, I have had plenty. That's okay. The only way you get is by practicing. And I think we pulled ourselves back from being good because we're so scared to practice because we don't want to fail and look foolish. It's just a part of success and especially sales success.
Kim (29:51):
It's really interesting what you said about sharpen your eq because actually I even will say I'm not a sales expert. I am a content expert. I'm an extrovert. I actually, this is a weird thing to say, I have a very strong eq, but I do have a strong in-person eq, but I do think there is this new language that exists in the digital world that is very weird in the same way that you might send or receive a text message that sounds rude, but it's actually just fast. Maybe someone's just in the middle of doing something so they don't say, hi, smiley face, whatever. They just go right into it. And so I actually find that's helpful to think about sharpening your eq because Instagram, it's like Tinder. Well, I'm married, but Tinder is like you just swipe and Instagram, it just feels like, oh, it's just a face on a page.
(30:34):
But remembering these are people on the other end of it. And so bringing them in as a human in the way that in person, we would never jump right in. But I've definitely jumped in and been like, Hey, I have this program and I now try to be like, Hey, thanks for following me. Can I ask where you found me? Or, Hey, did you hear me on that podcast? Thanks so much for following just being a human. I would add to your thing is sharpening your EQ and also sharpening your digital eq because that's really different. Digital etiquette is different. And I think in a way it's easier to, not easier to be pushy, but it's easier to do things that you wouldn't normally do in a call or on the phone on social because it feels, I don't know, there's just not that interpersonal. You don't get those messages back. Whereas if someone was kind of rejecting you in person, you would feel it pretty instantly unless you're totally oblivious. Just the digital world has its own language. So I think that's worth saying everybody, we all need to sharpen our EQ as humans, but also on sales calls, but also in this new digital world.
Krista (31:33):
Yeah, such a good point. Such a good point. Because yeah, it's so easy to just shoot off a message like, hi, I am hosting, I just got one from somebody that actually follow and I really respect, but we've never had a conversation. She sent me maybe a thanks for the follow, and I wrote her back, she never wrote me back, and then I'm hosting a masterclass on X, Y, and Z, and I was immediately like, I did not feel good because that message has gone to a hundred other people. Totally. And you can do automated reminders and text messages. Absolutely. But would you walk up to that person in a networking event and just say, hi, I'm hosting a digital. No, you would not say that. So that's always my litmus test. Would I say this, if we were in a networking event, would I walk up and say it like this? And if the answer is no, I'm not sending in a dm. And that's why I like voice dms
Kim (32:26):
Because it gives more of, it gives the rhythm, the tonality.
Krista (32:29):
Yeah. Same thing. Why video is great. We can see somebody's personality, and I record my voice DM once I do not delete it. So sometimes I track of what I'm saying and I say or a little bit, I mean unless it's horrible, I'm sending that because it's me and I'm imperfect, and that's my personality. And so it also reads better. It reads more authentic, it reads more genuine. Instead of I'm reading a script and I'm just going to sound like a robot, like, Hey Kim, it's Krista, hope you're great, blah, blah, blah. That just feels better. And I've had so much more success than when I used to because back in that first business, it was lots of just copy paste, copy paste. That's not the vibe anymore. We can't get away with that anymore. The market is way too crowded and it's just not how people are responding. I think the more that AI and automations come in, which are great and important in some ways, the higher the need for that personal connection and personalization in the messages is.
Kim (33:31):
Yeah, that's such a good point. I'm like writing this down and starring it. The more ai, the more human then, I mean the fact of matter is it's more time consuming. It just is. It's in the way that email marketing, you can send one email to thousands of people. This is time consuming. You have to find each person. You have to search your messages. Who was that nice blonde lady from Maryland I talked to? Oh yeah. What was her name? I literally have to search. I'm like that person I spoke to, she seemed nice. What was her, this might be good for her. But then following up my other question about sales, how do you create urgency?
Krista (34:00):
Yeah, so obviously deadlines for fast action bonuses or doors closing urgency is so important when you're selling. But the other thing that we can do to create urgency, if maybe there isn't the deadline or you feel inauthentic saying that there's one, because you know that really you can take anybody at any time is to sell the stakes. And this is something that we miss. So we'll oftentimes sell the dream, do this and life is going to look this way. You can have this and all these things. And side note on that, when we sell the dream, I think it's really important where it's simple and concrete. We live in this world where these dreams are being sold to us of make seven figures in a year when you do X, Y, and Z. And it's like consumers are very wise. They know that is a bunch of bs.
(34:48):
And so sell the dream of content's going to become easier or people will find you. I actually had someone reach out to me. I had a sales call with somebody, actually it wasn't even a sales call. She signed up on my website to work with me. I'd never talked to her and I was like, who are you? How did you find these? She found me through AI actually, which is wild. She went on AI and started asking questions of people she should work with, and it came to me. And so anyway, that's a side note, but sell the dream that's really simple and concrete, but then also sell the stakes. And the stakes are what happens if you don't take action. And we feel uncomfortable doing this because it is uncomfortable. You don't want to tell somebody your life is going to suck unless you do this thing.
(35:33):
But in your case, Kim, you're teaching people to show up on video to create content so they can be seen as the thought leader. And so selling the stakes would be like you could keep doing things the way that you're doing them. You could keep running your post through chat GPT and putting them out there and they work. You have something out there, but they read a little vanilla, a little impersonal. But unfortunately what's happening is the world is moving forward and more and more people are showing up on video and you are not going to be the cream of the crop anymore. You're going to keep getting pushed back and being ignored because people are looking for your face. And when you do that, opportunities are going to be less and you're going to be hired less and people are going to come to your content and go right by it.
(36:18):
And that's going to mean less customers. And you could even keep going further. And when you do that, your business is not going to have the revenue it needs. And when we know when a business doesn't have revenue, you can really go down and down and down. But we have to let people know you're never staying in the same spot. So back to your question about time and money, people think, well, I'll wait till I have more time. I'll wait till I have more money and I'm going to stay exactly right here and I won't move. And when I'm ready then I move forward. But what we need to remind everybody, no matter what you sell in life, we're moving forward towards our goals or we're moving away from them. And so if you know this person needs to get on video to build their brand, to build their authority, and they don't are moving farther away, they're not staying still because the world is moving.
(37:05):
And so we have to let them know in a kind, loving, empathetic way, and stories are great for that. They can soften the blow. We can tell our own story. I used to think this too and here's what happened to me and I want to save you from that. Or I had a client and they thought that too, and they waited six months. And when we finally did start working together, it took so much more time because we had to make up what we lost in that time together. So we have to sell the stakes of not taking action and that can create that urgency that we're looking for.
Kim (37:38):
Oh, I love that. That's so right. And I think you're right everybody. I mean the world moving so quickly today that everyone thinks, oh, just do the next one or the next one. I'm like six months from now, think about how much changes in six months with the world marketing technology, everything. I'd love to ask you, I like the idea that you had told me earlier about finding the overlap of your story and your customer's story and using stories to inspire action. That's kind of what we were talking about just now. The idea that your painting a picture of what their life will be like based on what they've said they've wanted and using yourself or other successful clients as avatars. So for me it's what are the pain points? And I'm like, I was anonymous. Literally no one knew who I was two years ago. And that's a problem if I'm trying to not just do corporate consulting, but if I'm trying to find independent clients, that's a problem. And then here's where I'm at now. And so is that what you're talking about when you're saying creating stories based on what your customer is needing?
Krista (38:34):
Absolutely. Yeah. So it's easier if you, a former version of you, your past self was your ideal client, which in your case it was Kim. In my case, it was like I sucked at selling. And so I can tell that story, but you don't have to have that. You don't have to have that. Your personal story is what the client is currently struggling with. There's a lot of other ways to do it. So client stories are great, and instead of Kim made $500,000 by working with me in the Acorn method, that's okay, but instead I can say, lemme tell you about my client Kim. Kim came to me and she was feeling like this and like this and like this, and I'm telling the story of Kim, but those are the pain points that the person listening likely has to the ideal client. And Kim tried this and this and this, and it's that head nodding moment and we want to really paint the picture.
(39:28):
So instead of Kim was overwhelmed, exhausted, and tired, Kim came and she was at her wit's end. She felt like no matter what she did, she would open up her email and there would be no new sales coming in. Kim was posting on Instagram all the time, but she wasn't getting anyone that ever dmd her. So we want to be really clear and paint the picture in the story. Then all of a sudden you come in as the guide, the storyteller. So we should never be the star of the story. Even when I tell my own story for a little bit, I'm the star, but I want to quickly write myself out of the story as I know this Nvidia as quickly as I can so that all of a sudden you see yourself as the star of the story. So here's the issue, here's the problem.
(40:13):
Here is the pivotal moment, the transformation, but then don't gloss over that part. A lot of people do that. It's like, and then everything changed, but I'm like, but tell me how did it change? So here's what I did. I did this and then I did this, and then I did this and it took time, but it was worth it and now here's what life looks like later. You can do that with your own story. You can do that with client stories, but you can also use things that are happening in the world around you to tell stories like that. I call them pop culture stories, but they don't need to be pop culture necessarily. It can be an inspiring quote that you're able to break apart and use as the inspiration for the story and how that ties into someone else. It can be an experience that you have that might not be so personal, it's more like universal or ubiquitous.
(41:02):
And then you can tie that. So there's so many different ways to do it. This is so great. Krista, is there anything I haven't asked you that you'd like to share? Gosh, I know there's so much when it comes to selling. I think just to piggyback on that story piece, stories are hot right now. We hear a lot about storytelling. We hear a lot about your founder's story. I am a huge proponent of you knowing your founder story, you being able to tell your founder story. But I just want to say if your founder story is going to build that credibility, build the authority, build the trust, very important. But it is not going to directly help you sell. And so when you're telling stories and when you're telling your own personal stories, always try to zoom out and ask yourself, what is the theme here? What did I learn? What are the universal desires or feelings that then can be applied to my client's story and challenge yourself to do a bit of that. That's my beef when it comes to storytelling with entrepreneurs, because there are times where you just need to be charming and charismatic and tell stories that have nothing to do with the person. And those are great, but also challenge yourself to tell some stories that then speak to the person and spur them onto action.
Kim (42:17):
Yeah, I've had a huge unlock with that. I think I came from corporate media executive, hide your warts and all and show up in your bla, and that's it. And so from actually launching a business where it's really dependent on more people trusting me and building, I've actually had to be much more open about, I didn't even want to show up on camera because I felt awkward and robotic and thought I'd be judged. And that really is step one to people not being on camera. And then then I was like, what should I make? And I was having really all those things that people struggle with, even though I'm literally made hours and hours and hours and hours of content for TV and social media. But I think it was that unlock, like you were just saying of it's not really about me, it's about how I shifted my mindset and then got the knowledge, and that's what you need to do as well. It's those steps. It's not just like, and then I showed up on camera and now I'm a bazillionaire. It's the unlocks mix. It's the reframe plus the knowledge. So it's like mindset and skillset combined to then have that transformation. But I love your point, and I think for me it was just starting to be more vulnerable and more real, more of the Kim who's at wine with her friends and me that with corporate Kim. And I think that's kind of like to your point of storytelling is really just being more of yourself, can't be anyone else anyway.
Krista (43:28):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. My tagline is always, you already have what it takes. And I know that sounds like kumbaya and silly, but it's so true. We try to be other people. We try to take on what other people are doing because it looks like it's working for them. And that's just takes us far off our path. It really is. We all have our own special sauce and who you are when you're having wine with your girlfriends is who you should be on social media and on your sales calls. That's what people are craving. We want real deep, authentic connections as human beings. And so leaning into that, I think you can't go wrong. And when you do more and more of that, everything else falls into place, including your sales.
Kim (44:05):
Totally. Krista, this was such a great conversation. How can people connect with you? I know that you have this really great, what's your sales style quiz, which I'm going to link out in the show notes if you can let everyone know how they can connect with you.
Krista (44:15):
Yeah, absolutely. Love for you to take the quiz, and that'll get you on my email list. I send a weekly newsletter every Friday, which is really just a story and a lesson within the story. Get a lot of great reviews on that. And then we have the podcast She Sells, He Sells new episodes every Monday. Kim's going to be a guest on that, so I'm looking forward to that. And then I hang out on Instagram. That's my main social platform. So I'm at Krista Demcher there.
Kim (44:40):
Thank you so much. This has been such an amazing conversation.
Krista (44:42):
Thank you so much for having me. Had a lot of fun.
Kim (44:49):
Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rittberg.