Ep. 119/ Building a Personal Brand and Financial Freedom with Katie Gatti
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Have you ever felt like the whole "personal brand" concept is a bit dystopian and wondered how to navigate it without feeling like you're selling your soul? I sat down with Katie Gatti, the incredible mind behind "Money with Katie," which has over 8 million podcast downloads (I know, right?!). We dove into all things personal branding, and she shares insights about how to put yourself out there without losing yourself in the process.
Katie's journey from a “swiping-her-Discover-card PR major” to a personal finance guru is nothing short of inspiring. As someone who's also fought through imposter syndrome and bet on myself, I totally get the struggle and the triumphs that come with building your professional perspective. This episode will change how you think about putting yourself out there. If you're eager to understand how to leverage your personal experiences and perspectives into a compelling personal brand while maintaining your authenticity, this episode is for you!
You will learn:
How expanding your brand to a broader perspective can be more honest and comprehensive - 5:34
How to decide whose opinion matters - 8:36
Why bragging is essential to establishing brand - 13:38
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I have the pleasure of interviewing the remarkable Katie Gatti, the powerhouse behind the blog-turned-personal-finance-media-empire, Money with Katie. Katie's journey from a PR major with a penchant for credit card swiping to a respected voice in the financial literacy space is nothing short of inspiring. Throughout the episode, we delve into the concept of personal branding—a topic that Katie finds both essential and somewhat dystopian. Our conversation sheds light on her nuanced approach to brand-building, where she strives to present her most honest self while contending with the static, often confining nature of a "brand."
Katie explains how she balances her evolving human nature with the consistent persona required for her brand, advocating for intentional presentation of values and honesty as keystones. Her insights into knowing which voices to heed and which to dismiss are helpful for anyone looking to successfully navigate the terrain of personal and professional branding. If you're eager to understand how to leverage your personal experiences and perspectives into a compelling personal brand while maintaining your authenticity, this episode is for you!
In this episode you will learn:
How expanding your brand to a broader perspective can be more honest and comprehensive - 5:34
How to decide whose opinion matters - 8:36
Why bragging is essential to establishing brand - 13:38
Quotes from our guest:
"A brand, in my mind, is something that is static and unchanging and very reliable and shows up in the same place, in the same way. And it's a bit of a confining or narrow box. And to me, being human is about kind of being in a constant state of evolution." - 4:13
"There isn’t just one right point of view that you should be striving for." - 9:21
"These people are reacting to my work. They're not reacting to me as a person. And that distinction matters for me." - 13:12
About Katie:
Katie Gatti Tassin founded Money with Katie in 2020 as a space to document everything she was learning about personal finance on her journey to financial independence.
As a former public relations major in corporate America with a penchant for swiping her Discover card, her obsession about personal finance came out of left field — and as she watched her net worth grow in tandem with her financial literacy, she realized just how valuable the information was.
She left her full-time job at the end of 2021 to devote all of her energy to building her business, and Money with Katie was acquired by Morning Brew in 2022. Today, she runs Money with Katie as part of a team of two.
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Kim (00:02):
Katie Gatti started a blog about personal finance and it has blown up into a behemoth. Her podcast Money with Katie has over 8 million downloads. We talk all about personal branding. She shares why she feels the concept is somewhat dystopian and how she goes about building her brand, what she thinks about it, and how she decides how much of Katie herself goes into her brand money with Katie. Welcome to the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards and in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now, I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the Grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimrittberg.com.
(01:29):
It is not an understatement to say that building a personal brand is one of the biggest things I think you need to do if you're looking to build a life with freedom, control some form of independence. That has been for me, my key. If I hadn't started putting myself out there, I definitely would not have the business today. We not only am I working with clients around the country that I love and I'm helping them, but I'm able to pick up my kids from school. I am having that freedom, freedom in my career, but also great things. Honestly, I've had really great accomplishments. I've won six awards. I'm speaking around the country, but it's really because I finally put myself out there and had thoughtfully started building that personal brand. I actually hate the phrase personal brand and just wrote about it for Fast Company, but I do love the idea of putting out your professional perspective, being out there more publicly, stopping the self-conscious voice in your head, and instead being more out there.
(02:27):
So in that vein, I really was excited to hear from Katie Gatti, who founded Money with Katie. A little bit about her, she founded that in 2020 as a space to document everything. She was learning about personal finance on her journey to financial independence as a former PR major in corporate America with a penant for swiping her Discover card. Katie's obsession about personal finance came out of left field as she watched her net worth grow in tandem with her financial literacy, she realized just how valuable that information was. Katie left her full-time job at the end, 2021 to devote all of her energy to building her business money with Katie was acquired by Morning Brew in 2022, and now she runs money with Katie as a part of a team of two. Her podcast has been downloaded 8 million times, and I really wanted to bring out the part of our interview where we dive into her building her personal brand, and in a later episode you'll hear all about her best financial tips.
(03:20):
But right now, let's jump into all the things that she had to say about her personal brand and separate from this. I did want to say I am running my next cohort of video bootcamp in just a few short weeks. If you are interested in that, that is a way to start putting yourself out there, learning how to really show up confidently on camera and how to make videos easily simply, and I make it fun. So reach out to me if you want more information, I'm going to drop a link in there. You can message me on Instagram or LinkedIn and I'll send you more info. Just send the words video and I'll send it to you. I'd love to ask you about brand building and personal brand. So I work with a lot of clients and students on how do we show up on camera, how do we show up to let people know who we are, why we're special, why they should work with us? What are your thoughts on the concept of the personal brand?
Katie (04:13):
I guess I have two main schools of thought. One is that I think it's something that we kind of do without realizing it. So I think everyone, whether you want to call it a personal brand or you just want to call it perception, personality. I mean everyone has a personal brand, whether they call it that or not. So I think being intentional about how do I want to present myself in the world and what do I value and what values do I want to come across is a really helpful exercise. And then there's the other part of me that thinks about branding a human as incredibly dystopian, particularly because it just conflicts with my idea about what it means to be human. A brand in my mind is something that is static and unchanging and very reliable and shows up in the same place in the same way.
(05:14):
And it's a bit of a confining or narrow box. And to me, being human is about being in a constant state of evolution. And so those two truths have always been very hard for me to reconcile. But in so far as it pertains to money with Katie, I think I always come back to what is the most honest thing that I can say and how does that come across in the brand? And I think that the original branding and the original way that I was presenting myself as Money with Katie was more tactical, practical, personal finance, brass tax. And it just so happened that as I learned more about all of those things and became more educated in general, frankly, and more, it became clear that my scope of interest was about this big. I had the blinders on, and once the blinders started to fall away and I saw, oh, I'm just looking at this very narrow small piece of this picture and this picture is so much bigger, that was what had me step back and go, I think I need to revisit how I am presenting myself and how I am presenting this brand to people to set the expectations at the outset that we are now going to look at the whole picture because that feels like the most honest thing that I could do to continue to just focus on this small little section would feel like a lie of omission.
(06:43):
And I don't want to do that anymore. So that is really the only major branding shift that I have made in the last four years. And it has really been about defining the scope of what I'm here to do and what I see my work as responsible for doing and the standards that I'm holding myself to.
Kim (07:02):
By the way, I should have let the listeners know I'm thinking about the personal brand. I'm writing about it for Fast Company, but this is a topic I find interesting and that's why I'm writing for Fast Company. It's funny. So my thought on the personal brand aligns very closely to yours. I think when I work with clients and students to start to show up more, I had a hard time showing up. First of all, who wants to hear from me? Not really that, but why am I on camera? Why am I doing this? And really, I find it, I don't like the term personal brand. I find it hard to commoditize ourself. To your point, I think of it, it's like being that bag of sugar over there. I want you to build a brand for it, but that bag of sugar is you. And also agencies, marketing agencies, millions of dollars go to marketing agencies to build brands for shoes, beauty, whatever.
(07:52):
And I think then us as normal humans, we're supposed to be show up and be yourself, but also consider what everyone's saying about you, but also don't think about what they're saying about you. I think it's just asking so much of people that, anyway, so my thesis is that I think we should rebrand it, and I think it should be something like your personal perspective or your professional perspective, your professional point of view. If you're doing it for your job, really just be out there, put out your professional perspective, sprinkle in some your personal perspective, and that's it. And I don't like the word personal brand. I think that when I encounter students and clients and I think the people who struggle with it, we're trying to give ourselves this. We're trying to make us treat ourselves like a third person. And that's hard. So I liked how you said it's the dystopian element of it.
Katie (08:37):
There is something about the idea of branding yourself as something so intentionally. I think to your point about point of view and being maybe a little nervous or a little bit apprehensive about coming out with a strong point of view, that is something that I have struggled with for a really long time. And I think I recently got to the root of it, which is that I was under the impression that there was a correct point of view or that that some point of view was correct, and therefore mine would be judged against that binary of right or not. And I think what I've kind of learned is that there is no one correct point of view and that, yeah, sure, some are more compelling than others, but there isn't just one right point of view that you should be striving for. And beyond that, I think there is some power in, when you mention what people are saying about you, I think it's important sometimes to distinguish between who is saying these things and is it someone that's in my newsletter replies angry because they disagree with me politically, and they're saying that they don't want me to talk about X, Y, Z anymore?
(09:53):
Is that the person whose opinion I'm really worried about? Or should I be judging the intellectual heft of what I'm doing and the robustness of my work and whether I feel good about it or not judged by perhaps someone who's intellectual perspective I respect. It's like, well, what would this person think about this work? It's like, would they find it off putting to mention this element of reality, or would they say, Hey, go further, actually press on that harder. You're hitting, you're striking a nerve. There's a reason this person's pissed. So I think that we can get into hot water when we don't use any discernment about whose opinions we are taking to heart.
Kim (10:38):
Right. Well, it's funny because the whole phrase of personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. That's fine, that's true. But then I really work with people to say, stop thinking about what people are thinking about you because that's holding you back. If you're always worried about what people are saying about you, you're never going to do anything. You're literally never going to get on a stage. You're never going to post on LinkedIn. You're never going to advocate for yourself because ugh, I'm sure a lot of people say a lot of things about a lot of people. And so I do think there's that element of consciousness which then makes people self-conscious. And I think that that's a detriment to what you're trying to do. And so I think that's why I think we're aligned in what we're saying.
(11:17):
But I just think there's this thing about don't overthink what you're saying, as long as you believe in it and you think maybe it's going to help someone else go do it. But then we're saying, oh, but how is someone else going to think about you? That's your brand. I'm like, somebody else thinks I'm amazing and smart and funny. Someone else thinks I'm annoying. Well, I don't care. But it takes a while to do that. How much of your person like Katie, the person, how do you decide what parts of Katie the person goes into money with Katie?
Katie (11:45):
I like to think that the best parts of me are what I put into the brand, and not just the best parts, but the exacerbated parts. So I might take an element of my personality and turn it up a little bit, and then there are other elements of my personality that I might go and turn down a little bit. For example, I tend to have a stronger point of view in money with Katie than I might otherwise have in casual conversation with somebody if I'm just kicking around an idea. Because I think that showing up with a strident point of view matters, and it's kind of crucial sometimes for making a point and having something salient to say, but at the same time, I think it is important for me to draw that line where it is me. That is what you're getting. But I always have to remind myself that the people that see me on my platform, whether it's in the podcast or the newsletter or Instagram, what have you, they don't actually know me. And so their feedback, whether glowing and excellent and exceptional, and I am the greatest writer they've ever read, or it's, you're an idiot, why do you even do this? You are missing so many obvious things. You should just not whatever they're saying, those people don't actually know me, so I try not to take any of it too much to heart. I think that part's really important for distinguishing what's me and what's not. These people are reacting to my work. They're not reacting to me as a person, and that distinction matters for me.
Kim (13:19):
I like what you're saying about exacerbating it, exacerbating your characteristics. I come from tv, so I was trained in writing headlines, identifying sound bites really quickly. Recently. Someone's like, how did you do that? I did a media training session with someone and they said all this stuff, and I gave them back three sentences about who they're, yeah,
Katie (13:36):
You're like, it's this.
Kim (13:38):
They were like, how'd you do that? I'm like, well, 17 years of working in media. But now for my own messaging and speaking, I have a thing where I say, humility doesn't pay the bills. You have to brag. Obviously that's kind of obnoxious, but I really think that no one's going to follow you around and show your resume behind you. So if you don't tell people who you are, no one's going to know. They're not going to go to the bathroom and Google you not to knock you. But nobody knows anybody. And so it's important to actually stand up and say who you are. Most people liked it when I posted, but one person was like, this is so obnoxious. But I'm like, okay, alright, fine.
Katie (14:19):
'em say it. Let them say that it's obnoxious. Sure, you're entitled to that for
Kim (14:22):
Sure. But I'm like, right, but that's the point. I'm being really obnoxious and if you take even 12% of that, you will be more successful in your business, in your career, in your life. If you can hold your shoulders back a little bit more and put your chin up and just be proud of one accomplishment that you've never said out loud before, then I did my job. And so I like your idea of exacerbating. I think that that's important. Everybody knows headlines and sound bites are what sells. If it's a true part of what you think, I think that is a great way to think about
Katie (14:49):
It. Thank you.
Kim (14:51):
Yeah. Alright, Katie, this has been great. Let our listeners know, I think they can find you at Money with Katie, but if there's anything else they should know to follow you now that they love you.
Katie (15:00):
Oh, thank you so much. Yes. If you like podcasts, the Money with Katie Show where every Get your podcasts. I also release pieces of writing and essays and kind of like the things that I'm thinking about every week in my newsletter. Also, you can find that at moneywithkatie.com, Money with Katie on Instagram. I release little videos and again, essays, things that I'm thinking about that I think are interesting and meaningful for people that care about their money and want to think about it in a more holistic way. And next year in May or June, TBD, whenever I finish this book, there's going to be a book called Rich Girl Nation, and it's kind of like my effort. I was working on it before this interview. We'll be working on it again after. It's my effort at consolidating the last five years of what I've learned and how my perspectives have changed and what I really genuinely see as the best financial path forward into 70,000 words. So that'll also be at your local Barnes and Noble and no big deal.
Kim (16:00):
No big deal. That's fine. No pressure. It's 10 months and it's just everything I've ever thought about professionally.
Katie (16:05):
It's fine. No big deal. Exactly. But thank you so much for having me. Thank
Kim (16:09):
You so much. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rittberg.