Ep. 124/ How to Scale & Launch a Successful Online Course with Gemma Bonham-Carter


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“Your business shouldn’t be your whole life, it should be the vehicle that helps create your dream life.” Online Business Strategist Gemma Bonham-Carter is here this week to tell us about her journey from public health to a seven-figure digital entrepreneur - and it is nothing short of inspirational! Gemma’s knack for creating meaningful connections with her audience and her valuable insights into online courses, email marketing, and integrating AI blew me away. For anyone struggling with the challenges of launching a successful online course, her advice about building a visible brand and engaging actively with your audience is golden. Plus, she shared some amazing tips on the importance of email marketing and creating effective lead magnets that truly serve your audience's needs.

One of the biggest takeaways from our chat was how she emphasizes aligning your business model with your personal goals and lifestyle. It's so easy to look at others and think you have to mimic their path to find success, but Gemma really drives home the point that your business should fit your life, not the other way around. She shared her own experiences of setting boundaries to ensure she spends quality time with her family, which is a reminder we all need sometimes. If you haven't listened to our episode yet, trust me, you don't want to miss it.

In this episode you will learn:

  • Mistakes people are making when launching courses & building online businesses - 2:30

  • How Gemma went from a public health worker to a 7-figure digital entrepreneur - 05:01

  • How to scale & launch a successful online course - 7:25

  • How to grow your newsletter - 12:55

  • How to engage recipients, establish credibility, inspire action - 16:49

  • Who to hire to help you grow your business - 20:49

  • How to craft successful lead magnets that address immediate pain points to grow your email list - 30:01


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Kim Rittberg sits down with Gemma Bonham-Carter, a renowned expert in online courses, email marketing, AI integration, and sales funnels. Gemma shares her inspiring journey from a public health career to becoming a seven-figure digital entrepreneur, guiding over 14,000 students since founding her online education company in 2017. The episode delves into common pitfalls new course creators face, the necessity of building a strong personal brand, and the importance of effective email marketing. Gemma also offers insights into the various formats for online courses, integrating AI, and the balance in creating sustainable programs that align with one's lifestyle. Gain actionable tips on leveraging marketing strategies, designing flexible course structures, and maintaining work-life balance as an entrepreneur. Perfect for business owners looking to elevate their online course offerings and boost their revenue.

In this episode you will learn:

  • Mistakes people are making when launching courses & building online businesses - 2:30

  • How Gemma went from a public health worker to a 7-figure digital entrepreneur - 05:01

  • How to scale & launch a successful online course - 7:25

  • How to grow your newsletter - 12:55

  • How to engage recipients, establish credibility, inspire action - 16:49

  • Who to hire to help you grow your business - 20:49

  • How to craft successful lead magnets that address immediate pain points to grow your email list - 30:01

Quotes from our guest: 

  • "Many course creators think they can just launch a course and sales will pour in. The reality is, you need to build a visible brand and actively engage with your audience." - 10:05

  • "Programs can evolve over time based on feedback and what works well. Flexibility is key in designing effective courses." - 18:02

  • "Email marketing is a critical sales driver. Building an email list early and effectively engaging new subscribers with compelling lead magnets is a game-changer." - 32:08

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GEMMA’S LINKS:

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Gemma’s Podcast


Kim (00:02):

Gemma Bonham Carter joins us. She is an expert in how to scale and launch a successful online course. She is renowned for her expertise in online courses, email marketing, AI, and sales funnels. She's going to tell you how to launch and scale your online course, how to grow your newsletter, mistakes people are making with their course, who to hire to keep building your company and how she went from working in public health to being a seven figure digital entrepreneur. Welcome to the Exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards, an in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider.

(01:00):

Now, I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. If you're self-employed, you're a founder, entrepreneur, coach, real estate agent, consultant, or solo practitioner, and you want to learn about business development, revenue growth, marketing strategy, productivity, publicity, sales, social media, content creation, confidence and work-life balance. It's achievable. I promise this podcast is for you. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, A treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimritrberg.com.

(01:50):

Alright, I'm really, really excited to bring in Gemma. Gemma Bonham Carter is a trusted voice for ambitious personal brand entrepreneurs who want to build lifestyle first businesses renowned for her expertise in online courses, email marketing, AI and sales funnels. Gemma empowers entrepreneurs to create profitable, streamlined businesses that serve their life goals. After years in blogging, she founded her online education company in 2017 and scaled it to a sustainable seven figure operation. Gemma has guided over 14,000 students through her paid programs. Wow. And has been featured in Entrepreneur Inc. The Globe and Mail, and an over 40 podcast. Gemma, I'm very excited to have you here personally and for the podcast listeners.

Gemma (02:28):

Yes. No, I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.

Kim (02:30):

Yeah, and I was just telling Gemma before we talked that basically I'm a zealot about online courses. It has literally changed my life. I could never have quit corporate and had a business where I get my kids from school if not for coaching. And so not only is it, oh, it's helped my business, but I've realized that me teaching other people, I'm empowering other people to have a sustainable business of their own. So I'm very excited about it. So I'd love to know from your perspective, what do you feel as people create and launch their own courses? What are the biggest mistakes they're making?

Gemma (03:03):

Oh, it's such a good one. There tends to be such a, it runs a gamut because I think that sometimes people get into courses thinking a little bit that they can almost hide behind the screen a little bit, that they can create something in a vacuum and put it out there and it's going to sell. And this is one thing that we were talking about actually before you hit record, is you do need to get visible and be out there. And you were talking about your experience and video and using that as a tool. And I think that sometimes that can be a bit of a mistake in that people don't quite realize the extent to which they do need to build a brand. And this is a business. This isn't just an educational course that you're going to throw up on Udemy and expect to turn that into a full-time income.

(03:49):

So I think that can, sometimes it's not so much a mistake as it is a learning curve for people to understand that, oh no, actually I do need to get out here, be visible, create content, become a thought leader in your space. And the people that I really work with in my programs and in my business, they're largely personal brand entrepreneurs, meaning they're building a business where they are the face of the company. It's not like a logo or faceless business. This is them. And it means that they need to bring their ideas to the table. And I think that as this marketplace evolves and shifts with AI more and more, so that is going to be more continually more important that you bring your unique voice and edge and personality and opinions and all of these things that make the way you see your industry different from other people. And you will therefore have a really aligned audience come to you to want to learn from you because of putting those ideas out there. And so I think that can just be maybe not so much a mistake as it is just a misunderstanding or people don't realize that when they're kind of getting into that space. Does that make sense?

Kim (05:03):

A hundred percent. And I'd love to know from your perspective, I think that I'm relatively new to the industry in terms of being a course creator. Can you talk to me a little bit about what are the different types of formats of courses? I've seen passive courses where people can just buy it and do it at their own time. Then I've seen live coaching cohorts, then I've seen ones where it's like you buy it, it's kind of passive, but then there's live programming at certain times. Can you break it down? What are the different structures?

Gemma (05:30):

Yeah, it's really interesting that you asked that question because we could categorize it as these, here's option A, option B and option C. But in fact, what I see it as is here's the big smorgasbord of what could be included in a course or coaching program or whatever you want to call it. And when you're the person creating a program, I tend to use the word program. So let's just go with that. We're creating a program, here's all of the things that you could include in that. And it's finding the match between what is the most aligned thing that you as the creator are going to be able to put something out there that's really good. And so some people really thrive at creating lessons and recording them and teaching them and creating amazing recorded curriculum. Other people might really thrive on getting into zoom rooms and leading people through stuff in a live atmosphere, et cetera, et cetera.

(06:26):

We could keep going on. And then conversely, if you know the result that you're trying to get for your students, what is it that they are going to need to get that result in the easiest, quickest way possible? And how do you need to then show up to make that happen? So is that live Zoom calls? Is it a cohort style group coaching thing? Is it curriculum? Is it digital tools? Is it like spreadsheets or templates or Nowadays with ai you can be creating little, I mean we could get really nerdy here, but you can create GPTs and usable tools for your students and embed those into your programs. So it's asking both questions from both kind of sides of the lens and coming up with the answer that best aligns for both. And so for me, in my particular business, there are some programs that I have that are completely passive because I've set up, I've recorded very clear curriculum.

(07:25):

Often I love to create tools that's kind of like in my wheelhouse. And so all I'll package together a program that is very digestible and easy to implement for the student where they don't need to show up in a live capacity. And then I have other things on the other end of the spectrum that require definitely more coaching, more support, more guidance, more our eyes on their problem or their obstacles that they're going through. And those kinds of programs would, for my business anyway, have a mix. So I think there's no right or wrong answer. I think it's looking at it from those angles and also taking the pressure off that the first time you do something, it doesn't have to stay that way forever. So if the first time you launch a course, you've done it so that okay, you're going to have X amount of recorded curriculum and it's going to be a cohort and it's going to be eight weeks and you're going to show up every week for eight weeks and do X, y, z, that's fine for round one. But at the end of round one, why don't you take a step back and assess what worked well, what could we reevaluate here and package it into version two? And I'm telling you, I've been selling and creating and teaching courses since 2017. I am still reiterating and evolving what my programs look like year after year. They continue to change, and that's okay.

Kim (08:47):

I love the point of it has to be on both sides. I do think that it has to be, if you're doing something that you think is going to serve your audience or your student perfectly, but it really drains your energy, you're never going to do it for a long time. But if you're doing just what's good for you and it's not good for them, it's not a match. So I like your idea of coming at it from both ways. Talk about the AI tools, and I do want to ask more about AI later. I feel like everyone's into AI and people want to leverage it. But let's say of course, creators not really that technologically savvy. Do you recommend they bring someone on to help them build those AI tools if they know what they want to put in there? And what types of people do you need to delegate and bring on to support creating the most robust course that you're excited about?

Gemma (09:24):

Yeah, great question. I think if someone's coming into this and really trying to do it in the most bootstrapped way, I really believe because I've seen it with my own eyes, that you can do it just by yourself. If you're really ready to hustle and make it work, you can come in and build a program as the solopreneur. However, if there are areas where you can really use some support, AI being a great example of that, come to the table with your program and yeah, maybe bring in a consultant. It's funny you mentioned this because literally my husband and I, who, my husband works in the business with me as well, and he's very techie and he and I were just talking about this the other day of should we offer this as a service? Because for us, it comes so naturally to look at our programs and see where there are opportunities for a tool and it's sort of second nature to us.

(10:14):

But to your point, that might not be the case for everybody. So if the AI is like your block, find someone who can come in and review, let's say the curriculum that you've built, and there'll be able to see, okay, here's where we could potentially create a tool where your students are having to do some work here to implement what you're teaching. Could we create something here? And it can be big, it could be small, but something that helps them just get the answer faster. So here's a really clear example. I have this mini program called Black Friday in a box where I help entrepreneurs run a five days of deals program or not program, five days of deals campaign at Black Friday. One of the things that people have to do obviously throughout this little mini program is decide on what are the five things that they're going to sell.

(10:58):

We do five days of deals and it's like five different things each day. And most entrepreneurs come in, don't necessarily have five products to sell. So I have examples and suggestions and things that they can think about for those five days, but we built it into a tool. So now they can just come in and say, Hey, I'm a health coach. Here's what I currently sell. I work with one-on-one clients doing this, and I do have this one group coaching program and we do this, what should my five offers be? And they click enter and it populates the answer for them. And if they don't like one of them, they can come back and get another idea for day four. But it kind of does it for them. It does some of the thinking for them because it's been trained on our methodology. So that's a really clear example.

(11:38):

That was a really quick one. Took a half day to set that thing up and it's super useful for the students. So yes, I think back to your original point of the question, bringing people in who have subject matter expertise to be able to help you maybe work out some of those spots in the business that could really elevate your program, I think is a really smart thing. And similarly to that, I don't know if you probably didn't experience this given the background that you came from, but I work with a lot of course creators who they are such experts in their niche or in their industry, but they're not necessarily experts when it comes to marketing. So it's like they've created amazing programs. They can get incredible results for their students about, I don't know, real estate or it's in health and wellness, or it's in some other parenting or we have a lot of pregnancy experts and just different people like that in our community. They're not necessarily marketing experts. So coming in and either getting the training to learn how to market their programs better, or having someone come into their business who can help them do that, it can be really advantageous. So it's like understanding your blind spots are, or the areas where you might be weaker and seeking out either education around those things or an actual person.

Kim (12:55):

That's awesome. I want to talk about signing people up, signing people up for your newsletter. It's a really big way to obviously get people into your funnel and understanding who you are. Talk to me about advice you would have about how to get people to sign up for your newsletter.

Gemma (13:12):

Okay, this is a great question. I have a soft spot for email marketing. It is definitely the heavy hitter for me and my business. It's how we make the vast majority of our sales are through our email list. And it's one of those things that I just luckily did from the beginning. A lot of people are like, dang, why didn't I start building my list three years ago when I first started? And for whatever reason, I don't know, I just was maybe listening to the right people. And I built mine from the beginning and it really has done me such a service over the long run. So I believe so strongly in e email marketing. And the thing about getting people to sign up for your list is that this hasn't changed that much over the years that I've been in this business. When it comes down to it, if you have something really compelling and helpful to offer to that person as a free gift, they will sign up for it and then it's on you to do the job to welcome them and get them kind of hooked in to your emails very quickly.

(14:11):

And there are strategies you can use in your welcome sequence to do that more effectively than others, but it's about having that great thing. And so you might have to test a few options, but kind of like a really boring ebook or a really, I don't know, not that juicy PDF, you have to really be in the shoes of your ideal customer and think to yourself, what is the most pressing thing that I want to solve for myself right now? What is that immediate pain point, that thing that is just bugging me? If I could get this done faster, easier, whatever that looks like, it would be a huge weight off my shoulders. And if you can put a lead magnet in front of the person that does that thing, that will be such a win. So as an example for, I don't know, three years now, my most successful lead magnet is a series of launch emails, meaning it's the emails that I have used in a live launch that have performed really well.

(15:16):

It's been an over six figure launch thanks to these emails when I know course creators or aspiring course creators are out there and they want to run a successful launch, the writing emails for the launch is a task that feels heavy and there's uncertainty around it and they're not quite sure what emails they should send and when they should send them an in what order and how many should there be, et cetera, et cetera. And then that lead magnet comes in front of them that says, Hey, do you want the 34 emails I sent for my six figure launch? They're like, heck yes. And they sign up. It's a really easy yes, that is such a good gift. And so that's really what you want to think about for your particular industry or audience and then do the work of keeping them on your email list

Kim (16:05):

And hooking them in. So my, I loved your points, and that was my second question. So let's say you get a lot of people on, you have this great lead magnet, how do you keep them from unsubscribing?

Gemma (16:15):

Yeah, so first off, we want to make sure that they use the lead magnet. So make sure that you're sending an email and we're not going to go ahead and start to make ourselves the star of the show and to introduce ourselves and give our 17 page bio in email. One, we want to just be like, Hey Kim, I know you signed up for those launch emails. Here they are. Go open them up and use them now. And then within 12 to 24 hours, I like to send another one that's like, Hey, just wanted to make sure you opened it up. Did you see email number six? That one was especially high performing. We got an amazing open rate. Make sure you use that one in your launch. So I'm sending them back again, but in a more specific way, I'm almost giving them something to really look at or do or take action because we know if they open it and they take action on it and they do something with it, then they're going to be like, wow, those emails from Gemma were really good.

(17:07):

That really helped me. There's some reciprocity that I'm building immediately right there with that person. And then I love to have a warming up sequence that, yeah, I want to get to know each other, but instead of, and sure, I'll drop some stuff about my bio in some of those early emails because it's important that I establish expertise in my authority and credibility with them right off the bat. But more importantly than that, I'm wanting to make them the star of the show. How can I make sure that they are feeling inspired, that they are really relating to what I'm writing in those emails that they're seeing themselves reflected in those emails that I'm talking about, the things that they're currently experiencing and they want to or solve or explore further. And doing those really successfully in a welcome sequence can really get them interested in continuing to stay on that list.

(18:00):

And so in a welcome sequence, I like those emails to happen. We don't want someone to sign up and then two weeks later we send a first email. It's like when they sign up, that's when they're the hottest to you. They're remembering that they signed up for your thing, they are engaged with you. So we want to be sending a couple of emails right off the bat within the first I'm sending an email a day for at least the first three days and then maybe spacing it out by two or three days and starting to make it longer and then eventually will fall into my normal rhythm of one to two emails a week. But that's what I'd like to do at the beginning, and I think it's really important to establish that quick relationship with them. One other little quick tip here, and this is a optional thing, but if you want to in your welcome sequence, you can also have them self-select and put themselves into certain categories that will be helpful for you in terms of segmenting your list. So let's say for instance, if you're in the marketing world and you want to understand, am I getting new business owners here or am I getting established business owners, what level are they at? Well, maybe in one of those welcome sequences emails, we're actually getting them to click a button to tell us what category they're in and we can send emails specific to those buckets of people that will sort of relate a little bit better further on in the sequence. Is that making sense? Yeah,

Kim (19:20):

No, that's great. That's great. And then how many emails will you send in your warmup sequence?

Gemma (19:24):

Usually about five or six

Kim (19:26):

Over like five days.

Gemma (19:28):

And then they're into my, unless they have self-selected to go into another funnel in my welcome sequence, I might say things like, Hey, if you want to launch your first course, I do have this free class that you can go register for here and watch it dah dah, dah. And then that will sort of bump them into a different funnel or a different email sequence. But if they haven't clicked on anything, yes, it's a five or six welcome sequence and then we're moved into my usual cadence of emailing them at least once a week, sometimes twice.

Kim (20:01):

Awesome. This might be the literal, I don't like to apologize for questions, but this might be so stupid, but I feel like when I got into the online course world, there were all these things that I needed, but I didn't even have the words for them. A friend of mine was growing her business and she said she has an online business manager. And I'm like, what is that? I wouldn't even know to ask for that. I know to look for an assistant or a social media manager, maybe a business coach. Those are the only three words I've ever heard of. So what are some of the roles that you have seen people as they scale into the larger businesses, maybe they're going into multiple six figures or seven figures. Who are those people who get you to the next level?

Gemma (20:38):

Yeah, what a great question. I think that this can really look different for a lot of people because, so your friend mentioned the online business manager and OBM if you are in this world,

Kim (20:48):

I was like, I

Gemma (20:49):

Dunno what the word means, let alone should I hire this person? Totally. I think that can be so helpful for the creative CEO who needs the space to be able to run with their ideas and meet someone in the background to project manage and to keep things organized and to keep the ship going. And that can be a really great relationship. There are other people where you might be a CEO that is creative but also still loves to project manage and still loves to kind of be in the tactical room of that all being carried out. But you really can't handle your social media and it's like you actually just need to hire someone who's an expert at creating really compelling social media where you can hand it off to them and then they could simply circle back with you and say, Hey Kim, I just need you to film these five videos on this.

(21:42):

Send me some B-roll and approve. I'll send you everything to just approve. And then we've batched it for the month. And that might be what helps you get to the next level in your business because that has been taken off your plate and might've been weighing you down in terms of being able to think about getting you forward or what those next best steps should be to build your business. I really think that this can look so different for everybody, and it also depends on where you're trying to go with your business. If you are growing an agency business or if you are growing a coaching business where you want to have these big programs with teams of coaches in them and you're onboarding lots of people and it's kind of this big operation where when you get to that level, your profit margin might go down, but you're a bigger operation, you're operating at a bigger scale.

(22:32):

But other folks might want to get to let's say half a million a year at a very high profit margin as more of a solopreneur style business, and that's their enough number. They just want to build it to there and maybe have a VA and maybe someone helping with social media and that's it. And it feels really comfortable to be there. So I think having the vision of what's the business model that you're trying to build is really important. We tend to see other people doing things and we think, oh, if they have an OBM or they're working with this sort of high level business coach, or they have a CFO for their business, so maybe I need to do that too. And we end up building a business model that isn't actually necessarily aligned with our goals where we want it to go. And we've actually seen this, it's interesting now that I've been in this space for as long as I have because it's almost like when you get into your forties and a bunch of people start having divorces in your friend group.

(23:29):

It's like I can see that now happening in the online business world because everyone build these businesses and a lot of people around me built these giant businesses. We came up kind of in the same cohort and they built big businesses, seven multi seven figures a year, and big team like big team to support these big businesses. And what's happened in the last sort of 18 months, so many of them have burned them down. They've either burned down the business and gone started something completely different or they've scaled it all the way back to where it's just them again, just some private clients and they've scaled it all the way back because it didn't align with how they actually wanted to run things on a day-to-day basis. And so all that's being said, it's easy to get off track. It's easy to say yes to things that you think are where you should be going and to follow someone who seems like they really know what they're doing, but remember why you're building your business and align it with how you want to run your business and your life. They have to really support each other. I built my business with babies at home. I had very clear boundaries in place right from the beginning around work hours and even how I could run my business. I couldn't take calls for a long time. Having a calendar full of calls was not an option for me. And so I built my business accordingly, and that might not be the right thing for everybody else.

Kim (24:53):

I love that. I love that concept of it. I come from an area where it really, most people in media or in video or tv end up going to video production and maybe an agency model. And I actually realized even though I am good at some parts of that, good at many parts of that, I don't like it. It doesn't drive me and I don't want to grow that type of business. And so actually some of my programs and my offerings adjust to the point that I don't try to build out my own mini agency for clients. I don't want that. It doesn't work for me. So I like that you're pointing that out because I did go through that. I'm like, no, no, no, I don't like this. This doesn't light me up. I love teaching people. I love helping them. I like coaching, I like supporting them. I'll give them other people who can be their social media manager, who can be their agency. I think it's really important what you're raising about that. I love that. Talk to me about how did you get into doing this? Where did you come from? What did you do before?

Gemma (25:40):

Oh my God, Kim, how much time do you have? So I took a very roundabout way. I was going a very academic route. I was getting a master's in public health. I thought I was going to work on global maternal health initiatives for my life. I saw my, saw my career going in a really different way. And during all that time I realized that I really needed a creative side. I was doing all this academic kind of stuff, and I just needed something that felt a little more fun. And at the time, my boyfriend and I, we bought a house. It was very much a fixer upper, and for anyone listening who maybe followed blogs back in the early 2000 tens, there were some really fun fixer upper DIY blogs out there, like Young House, love Chris, loves Julia. There's a whole handful of them.

(26:22):

I was so inspired by them. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to do this too. I'm going to start a blog. I'm going to share about these funny projects that my boyfriend now husband and I do around the house. And so I started blogging about it. I had so much fun, zero understanding that this could be a business, no money aspirations here at all. But over the years, what ended up happening was I grew an audience. It started to become kind of a thing. I then started to land brand deals. I was getting sponsored posts and free stuff from companies. I was like, oh, okay, hang on a second there, Jem. I'm like, maybe I can, this can turn into something. And then I started to monetize in a bunch of different ways, like affiliate income. I started a little Etsy shop, I had merch.

(27:04):

I got started speaking at blogging conferences because people wanted to hear about how I had done it. And so I started speaking at these conferences and I realized, Ooh, I love this part. I love teaching about what it is that I've done over here. And I realized I'm way more excited about teaching the strategy behind the business of blogging than I am actually blogging. So I was like, okay, pivot time, time to launch a course about the business of blogging. And that's what I did. And the second course I launched, which was actually about that e-commerce shop, it was called Launch Your Shop, targeted for bloggers who wanted to add that revenue stream of e-commerce. And that became in the second year of operation, it became a six figure revenue stream for me and my business. And I was like, holy smokes, there is really something here. And so I doubled down on that and eventually, as I feel like this is just such the cliched part of the story, but as that grew, then people started coming to me being like, well, hang on a second, Gemma, you obviously understand this online course thing. Can you teach us about how to launch a course because we're seeing that you're doing that so successfully. And so again, another pivot came there, and that happened around 2019.

Kim (28:17):

And the first e-commerce, that was exactly What were you selling exactly?

Gemma (28:21):

Yeah, I was selling, oh my gosh. It was like this shop where I was selling mugs and T-shirts and art prints and all of these fun print on demand products that I was could drop ship to customers. And I had this really cute Etsy shop, and I was even doing craft fairs in my local where I'm from, and it was a really viable side gig. And it was while I was working nine to five in public health, it was around the time that I got pregnant with my daughter, but then it was when I was pregnant with my son, he was my second kiddo, and that was when I launched the course. And then I was like, oh, okay, I really see something here. And then after I had him, I never went back to my public health job. I was just like, oh, this is it.

Kim (29:05):

Wow, that's crazy. And then so people realize, okay, you can do this e-commerce thing, you know how to work the internet and sell people things like help me. And then it kind of grew from there,

Gemma (29:15):

And then it really grew from there. And then, yeah, so after about two and a half years of running that course called Launch Your Shop, where I was helping other people set up e-commerce stores, it was during that time when really I was falling in love with, okay, how am I marketing this course? That part was becoming more and more fun for me, and I was wanting to teach people that, and I was falling out of love with being an e-commerce shop owner. And so this slow pivot happened where I felt like, well, can't actually keep selling the course launch your shop if I don't have my own e-commerce store anymore. That feels really out of alignment.

(29:47):

Over the course of a year, I scaled down that program and launched a program to help people launch their courses, and I eventually closed the store and just kind of made that pivot. And in hindsight, it was kind of great timing because that all happened in 2019, and then we know what happened in 2020. And so then when there was this boom of people wanting to learn about creating and selling courses, I had already gone into that market the year before. And so then my business really just continued to scale from there. And so ever since 2017, I've been able to see consistent, steady, sustainable growth in the business, which has been great.

Kim (30:22):

That's awesome. It's funny, I had a jewelry company in my early twenties through late twenties as a side gig, and so I know the product based business, the promotional based business of that. I did a lot of in-person, mostly in person actually. I wasn't really leveraging, this was s anyway, I wasn't really leveraging social media as much as I could have been or whatever. But I do think that having that knowledge of being on the side of product-based business selling, understanding how to talk to people, when to shut up and things like that, and it was invaluable. To your point about running an e-commerce store, I'm like, oh, okay, I've done this. I can do this. That part's hard to me identifying opportunities and challenges. And so this is my second time being an entrepreneur, and I think it's all helpful, but to people who've been in the creative space, drop shipping, print on demand, that's speaking my love language.

Gemma (31:12):

Yeah, exactly. And I think there's an underlying lesson to what you just said, which is most of the time when we look at businesses, especially ones that we're trying to model ours after, and we see someone that feels really aspirational, what we don't realize are the 15 businesses they did before that one, the knowledge that has been stacked over time to make that business that they now own today so successful. And I would definitely not be here at this point with the business that I have today, had I not done all these funny little side gigs in the beginning and built it

Kim (31:45):

Totally. I have people asking me, could you this? I'm like, could you? I'm like, I could do anything. When you have the hustle and you have the desire, I'm like, I could do anything. These are the things I'm best at. It makes you realize also you're going to work really, really hard no matter what it is. Pick the thing you want to be doing that. And I think it's for everybody, but I do think once you have kids, you value your time in a different way. And I'm like, my hours are limited, my attention is limited, my focus is limited. So I'm really going to go drill down on that. Two last questions, rapid fire, last questions. What is an app you can't live without?

Gemma (32:17):

Ooh. Okay. Obvious answer for me. Tragedy. GBT.

Kim (32:22):

What is an embarrassing parenting moment for you?

Gemma (32:25):

Oh, good lord. An embarrassing parenting moment. Well, the one that's really just coming to mind is this was years ago and my daughter had the world's biggest blowout, and I think any parent has been there, and it was one of those moments where in the diaper bag you go, I literally had to rip it off her. It was all up her back at the coffee shop, and I was changing her in the bathroom. I had to rip off this thing. It was a white onesie and it was all up the back, and I thought for sure there was something in the diaper bag and there was nothing. And so I had to come out with a naked baby that I'd tried to wipe with paper towel and my wipes as successfully as I could. But there were crevices that she needed a bath, and so I had to walk at the coffee shop with the naked baby, stick her back in the stroller and walk her back home and get straight to the tub.

Kim (33:12):

What does success mean to you?

Gemma (33:14):

Time. Time with my family, being able to have my days look the way I want them to look. For me, that was always the big goal of why I wanted to run my own business was because I wanted to be able to run my day the way I wanted to run it. And so I still pinch myself that I've been able to make that happen.

Kim (33:33):

What's the best advice you'd give to another entrepreneur?

Gemma (33:36):

Oh, just to keep going that the only way that you're going to fail at it is by stopping. You might have to pivot 16 times. There might be some moments where you really feel like you don't know what you're doing or you feel so scared, but if you just keep going, that you'll figure it out and you're only running a race against yourself, not against anybody else.

Kim (33:58):

I love that. Gemma, is there anything I didn't ask you you wanted to share with us?

Gemma (34:01):

No, this has been a great little chat. I loved it.

Kim (34:04):

Alright, awesome. And then people can find you at,

Gemma (34:07):

Yeah, come say hi on Instagram. I'm at gemma dot bottom Carter, and if you like listening to podcasts, I host my own called the Course Creator Show, so we really dial into strategies and tips for course creators. So if your listeners are interested in that, and I will also drop the link too. If you want to check out that lead magnet that we talked about, the launch emails, I'll make sure that you guys have the link. And yeah, it includes 30 plus emails from a six figure launch, so you can go ahead and use those as inspiration for your next launch.

Kim (34:36):

That's definitely something I want to share. Thank you so much, Gemma.

Gemma (34:40):

Thanks for having me.

Kim (34:45):

Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rittberg.

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