Ep. 126/ How to Generate a Good “Vibe”: Melissa Rosenfield on Business and Personal Resilience
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“The goal is to have a good vibe.” This week we have, Melissa Rosenfield, the dynamic founder of IFP Communications and former "Director of Vibe" at Viceroy Hotel Group. Our conversation delved into Melissa's remarkable journey of being in debt to running a 7-figure company in 18 months and her path from the corporate world to the exhilarating—and sometimes daunting—realm of entrepreneurship. The turnaround includes winning an award of the “Best Places to Work” by PR Week.
Melissa shares her challenges, such as managing through the COVID-19 pandemic, which led her to restructure her business with the help of a consultant. The result? A lean, loyal and resilient team.
In this episode you will learn:
How to make a buzz-worthy event - 10:47
How Melissa went from debt to 7-figures - 15:16
How to focus on growth by prioritizing a healthy environment - 21:41
How to define ROI by your goals: brand awareness, sales, or market entry - 30:28
How to value your relationships and friendships in business - 35:23
Her advice to others - 41:27
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Join host Kim Rittberg in this compelling episode with Melissa Rosenfield, renowned founder of IFP Communications and former "Director of Vibe" at Viceroy Hotel Group. Discover Melissa’s fascinating transition from a cable news career to high-impact event planning and entrepreneurship. Learn how she navigated the financial turmoil of COVID-19, turned her debt-ridden business around, and achieved a seven-figure revenue milestone in just 18 months. Melissa shares her personal challenges, including being a primary caregiver and handling employee dynamics, while offering invaluable advice on PR, brand strategy, and ROI. This episode is packed with entrepreneurial insights, stories of resilience, and tips on creating unforgettable events. Whether you’re in PR, event planning, or on a journey to entrepreneurship, Melissa’s experiences and advice are not to be missed.
In this episode you will learn:
How to make a buzz-worthy event - 10:47
How Melissa went from debt to 7-figures - 15:16
How to focus on growth by prioritizing a healthy environment - 21:41
How to define ROI by your goals: brand awareness, sales, or market entry - 30:28
How to value your relationships and friendships in business - 35:23
Her advice to others - 41:27
Quotes from our guest:
“It's not about doing everything; it's about doing things well within your means." - 30:42
"As an entrepreneur, I've learned the importance of taking calculated risks. It's about making informed bets on yourself while being prepared for any outcome." - 36:29
"Success, to me, is about financial freedom. It's being able to buy that avocado without a second thought, reflecting the years of hard work that got me here." - 39:53
Melissa’s Bio:
Melissa Rosenfield, a Brooklyn native, has always been a natural connector, driven by a passion for cutting-edge cultural experiences across hospitality, fashion, art, music, and food. As the world’s first “Director of Vibe,” Melissa combines her expertise in luxury travel, brand partnerships, and social direction to help brands create authentic, impactful connections. Her work with renowned brands like Stila, Tarina Tarantino, and the Viceroy Hotel Group helped establish her reputation for curating sensory-driven experiences and driving business success.
In 2015, Melissa launched IFP Communications, a New York-based agency focused on creative brand strategy, marketing, and public relations. Through her speaker series, “This Vibe Life,” she’s built a community of professionals while working with brands like Rockefeller Center, Lululemon, and Marriott to shape innovative programming.
Outside of work, Melissa is a proud mother to her daughter Sidney, known as “This Vibe Baby,” and supports causes like No Kid Hungry. She also enjoys staying active with Peloton, Y7, and OBE Fitness, embracing a life full of swagger and smiles.
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MELISSA’S LINKS:
Kim (00:01):
You are going to hear from Melissa Rosenfield, the founder of IFP Communications. She talks about the ROI on public relations, how she took her company from six figures in debt to seven figures in revenue in just 18 months. And she'll share how to make an event feel super special so that everyone's talking about it the day after. Welcome to the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards, an in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the Grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimrittberg.com.
(01:24):
Alright, we are in for an exciting guest today, Melissa Rosenfield. She is a born and bred Brooklynite and she's always been a connector through her determination and grit in the concrete jungle. Rosenfield has long surrounded herself with New York's boldest and brightest innovators in the world of fashion, hospitality, and food. In 2010, Melissa traded bodegas for palm trees taking on a new challenge for Viceroy Hotel Group in Anguilla As the world's only director of Vibe trademarked, she is a lifestyle innovator, luxury travel expert and social director all rolled into one her unparalleled connective abilities. Were able to establish authentic partnerships between brands and VIP clients that are authentic, drive business and yield. A strong ROI Melissa channels her decades of industry experience and connections to launch IFP communications in 2015. This New York based agency focuses on creative brand strategy, marketing and public relations. Since its launch, IFP has worked with heavy hitters and indie brands alike, including nait Ross, Simon's Girlfriend Collective, little Spoon and more. Melissa facilitates an environment of open collaboration and warmth. So much so that the IFP team recently earned the title of Best Places to Work by PR Week. Ooh,
Melissa (02:33):
Off the recording because this isn't coming out probably before that we just want it again.
Kim (02:37):
Oh, exciting. Outside of the office, Melissa is an engaged mother of an energetic five-year-old Sydney who loves a good Peloton session. She also devotes her time to philanthropic engagements, giving mentorship advice to New York's aspiring female entrepreneurs of color with unlock her potential. She's also a strong advocate for No Kid Hungry, a charity under God love. Under God love We deliver.
Melissa (02:57):
No, not under it, but yes, of those that is the truth. I love them both and also you should be doing Unlock her potential, but we'll talk about that.
Kim (03:04):
Okay, great. And she has raised six figures and counting for that group in a city filled with soaring skyscrapers, being a people person reaches new heights with Melissa, whether she's mingling on a Christian do or showcase or greeting editors at brand events, she and her team run. Melissa approaches every new challenge and opportunity with swagger and a smile. Hi Melissa.
Melissa (03:21):
Hi. I am so excited to be here with you.
Kim (03:23):
This is so great. So for those of you who don't know by my accent, I am a New Yorker too and I live in Brooklyn and Melissa and I live three blocks from each other, but we actually met through people in the industry and we've become friends since then. And I am so impressed with everything that Melissa has done and she's just really bold and real and authentic. And so I'm very excited for the audience to learn from Melissa.
Melissa (03:45):
Oh my God, I'm just so excited to be here. I'm just happy to be nominated.
Kim (03:50):
So talk to me about you run IFP communication, but obviously as we just heard you had all of these other experiences. What made you leave? Let's be real, the comforts of a corporate, the comforts of a consistent paycheck. What made you leave a consistent paycheck to launch your own business?
Melissa (04:05):
So it's so funny because my sister will always tell you that from a very young age, I was super entrepreneurial and you've met my sister, so she's a great spokesperson for me. But ending up in the role I was in my last corporate role made a ton of sense to everybody. And then it was kind of like, okay, well what do we do next? And I was always pushing the boundaries, what can we get too big or whatever? And sometimes in a corporate role you can only go so far and it's a little heartbreaking because being in a corporate role becomes so much of your identity. It becomes so much of when you call the place it's blah, blah, blah from blah, blah blah. And my dad, who is one of my biggest cheerleaders, but also scared me quite a bit was like, well, when you leave you don't have that backing you up anymore.
(04:46):
But I always say to people, I kind of didn't run towards something. I ran away from what I didn't want anymore. I wanted the ability to be really creative. I wanted more projects, I wanted to be able to kind of do things on my own terms. And not that I didn't have a ton of autonomy and flexibility in my last corporate job I did. I was remote before most people were. I wanted to really go to the next level and the brand wasn't catching up in time and we all knew it. It wasn't like it was heartbreaking, but we all knew that there were limitations. And so it either had to be me on my own, forging a new path or stagnating in a place that I liked a lot, but was changing a lot.
Kim (05:23):
And then so when you launched IFP Communications, what was the first offering? What was the first client? I feel like it's that first year when you're like, who's going to pay me to do this is really scary. So what did your first clients look like? What were your first projects?
Melissa (05:36):
Yeah, so as the story goes, it was April, 2015 and I was at a girlfriend's house, she's a media personality on air talent and it was Coachella weekend and I literally, I barely even did my exit interview. I was like, I'm out of here, I just don't want to deal with this anymore. And I'm sitting in her apartment in West Hollywood looking over the hills, looking over the whole city and I'm like, I got to draft email saying that I'm done. And I left and she's like, okay, let me help you. And she loved this project more than I probably did. She was like, let's talk about all the great things you did and how you're open to doing anything. And so we draft this email and I'm like, okay, I guess I'll send it to all my contacts. And it was 17,000 people.
Kim (06:13):
You had 17,000 contacts from the years
Melissa (06:15):
Of working every thousand contacts from my life up to that point
Kim (06:20):
Because it includes what press companies, people, everything, people, socialites, celebrity, everything.
Melissa (06:25):
Wow.
Kim (06:26):
It
Melissa (06:27):
Was insane.
Kim (06:27):
That's
Melissa (06:28):
A lot of people. And so every time I go switch my phone at Verizon, they're like, are you sure you don't want to get rid of Walmart being, you're like, I'm not sure I might need to call Kevin Hart in a bind.
Kim (06:38):
I actually have a lot of weird, I worked in cable news for five years. I have a lot of weird, not weird unusual names from Capitol Hill.
Melissa (06:45):
Yeah, correct.
(06:46):
And you never know. So I sent this email and I closed my laptop and we were like, should we go to Coachella? And she was like, let me see if we can, whatever. We were being literally those people we're like, should we go for just a night? Should we get whatever? And then my phone started kind of pinging and hundreds of emails were rolling in. It was wild. And one of the first females I got was from Judith Reagan who's like a very storied publisher and literary agent, and she is a boss. She goes, hi Melissa, it's so great to hear from you. I don't know what you're doing next, but keep me posted because I'm happy to hire you to do whatever. I was like, thank you. And then a girlfriend called me who had a PR agency, a very successful one with big clients like McDonald's, GM Chevrolet, and she said, I need to do this project.
(07:28):
I don't have a huge budget, but do you want this to be your first project? And so my first project out of the gate was for gm, which was a very cool out of the gate project to get. It was a really big brand. And when you talk about that first year, it's the first six months I feel like people do not tell entrepreneurs this. And somebody said this to me on the Lower East Side, a friend of mine, we were sitting outside of Arlene's grocery drinking smoothies on a Tuesday afternoon. He was a freelance person and he was like, you've made it six months and this is the point where people turn around and he is like, but I think you can keep going. I know you and I know that in six months when we sit here again, it's going to be amazing. And I was like, I don't know, maybe I should. And there were some big corporations like Marriott and some big brands that were like, Hey, do you want to
Kim (08:13):
Come?
Melissa (08:14):
Yeah. And I was like, maybe I should do that. And I was having a lot of conversations and I had been doing projects and I was like, let's forge ahead. And then I made Marriott a client. And so it was pretty amazing. And I think having a life of well seeded relationships and just great relationships and always having kind of integrity and never, I've always said the weight at the top is not stepping on other people maybe to my detriment. But I think all of that was kind of what helped me in that first year, the first six months really. And then that first year
Kim (08:45):
And those first clients who brought you on, what were you doing for them? Was it pr?
Melissa (08:50):
It was literally anything they wanted. I didn't even know where to go. So some of them were calling me for pr. A lot of them were calling me for the kind of intersection of PR and brand partnerships and programming because something that I was known for and something that I'm still known for to this day is my job when I went to Viceroy was very vague and nebulous. They wanted an onsite PR person, but then they wanted help with other things. So they were like, we should bring in some fitness partners. Do you know anyone? And I'm like, let me call Julie Rice from SoulCycle, let's talk to Barry from Barry's bootcamp and his team. And so people knew me of bringing these very cool brands together in these really cool organic ways. And I hate saying cool so much, but it was these unique things.
(09:30):
I realized that people have so much, they don't have time, they can have a lot of money and they just want moments. We just want moments, memories, things. And so it was a lot of different things, but a lot of things that were create programming for this. We're launching a new brand, we need cool people there to show how cool the brand is, what can you do? So it was guest list, it was talent wrangling, it was procurement, bigger deals. It was, Hey, this is what we're thinking. Can you build out a program for us knowing that these are the brand, this is what the brand stands for, what does that look like in launching it? Or what does that look like in engaging consumers
Kim (10:05):
Understanding that? So what would you say are the keys to making a moment really special and memorable?
Melissa (10:11):
I mean it's the vibe and that word was not part of our language in the way it is now. 14 years ago when I was the director of Vibe, and I still laugh because people will still be director of vibe. I'm like, oh my God, they were a hotel guest 14 years ago and I still stand out. But it really is, it's that moment you create that is the music, the food, the sound, the people in the room are so important, creating all those things, having them kind of come together in a really natural way where it doesn't feel forced and it just feels great. That's what it is. That's what gets people excited.
Kim (10:47):
I feel like whenever people try to throw an event or a program, it's always the goal is to have a good vibe, make it cool, make the right is the right. What do you think when people have events and it kind of misses the mark from your perspective, do get analytical? Are you like, oh, I went to this thing and it's just felt off. Here's what are the things that people are doing wrong?
Melissa (11:06):
So it could be the people in the room. I was at an event last night, it was so funny. It was for very big brand for their holiday preview. And I was like, they did this so well. Half of it was consumer facing. They only had a few kind of VIPs there, of which we were four of them. And it was like they just got their audience in such a beautiful way and knew what would excite them. And so I couldn't help but be excited because I was watching these people be so excited and it was literally had nothing to do with me. I knew nothing about it. And just every single touch point you could see how excited the people who were there were about it, the consumers. And I was like, this was so great. And it was literally a preview, a showcase of their new programming for the holiday season. It was a Christmas party in October, and if you know me, I'm a Halloween girl, I'm not a Christmas girl. And I kept saying to them, you guys are turning this Jewish girl onto Christmas after Halloween, after Halloween. But it was seeing the excitement in those people. And I think when I go to events, what I'm usually looking for is the music, the food, all of those regular touch points, but also how are the people interacting? I don't think an event is successful if you don't walk away with a bunch of new relationships.
Kim (12:16):
To
Melissa (12:17):
Me, that's crazy. I was at an event last week that was a lot of high level executives from some major brands and every single person was like, oh my God, it was so nice to just sit at a table with these people you didn't know and chat with them and move around and great. And it was a phenomenal event and they didn't overthink it. It wasn't like there was a three course seated meal. It was just the right balance of letting people feel a little bit casual but still keeping it buttoned up, letting people let their guard down and engage with each other without it feeling forced. And I was like, they knocked it out of the park. I told 'em yesterday.
Kim (12:50):
That's great. It's funny. It's making me think. My sister-in-law throws high end events in LA and whenever I throw a party, I'm like, what else do I need? I'm like, let me apprentice you. I think it is always what people are striving for. No one throws a party being like, I want cruddy food and lame music. No, never. But I always say I know my limitations. If I DJ a party, it's all like Britney Spears and Rihannas are good two thousands, so don't have me be the dj. Well, it's really great for a run and for an exercise class, but it's not great for a party. So I always tell my friends who have better taste in music. I'm like, can you to the playlist?
Melissa (13:19):
Yeah, I mean I think it's looking at all of it. Nobody wants to throw a party party, but I think sometimes to your point, people don't know their limitations. And I see that a lot with brands where they don't know their limitations. Instead of trying to work within their budget in something that could meet the budget and be really cool, they try to go above it and then it just feels like it falls short. And you just see that so often. Again, on the production side of things, you go to an event and you're like, okay, they probably had $50,000, which isn't a huge amount, but they could have done a really nice job at $50,000 or they could have strived for a hundred thousand dollars event on $50,000. Those two look very, very different. So that's kind of the way I look at it. And then I also think about what's going to be the after effect of it. Are people going to talk about it? Are people going to post it or is media going to cover it? Did people walk away being like, that was so much fun? There are a lot of events. We go to a lot of events where sometimes it's just like you're standing in a room and you're like, why did I even get dressed for this? Why did I put on lipstick?
Kim (14:15):
For me, it's heels. I hate wearing heels though. I'm always,
Melissa (14:17):
I feel like every time you're always in heels when we go out,
Kim (14:20):
It must be those four times that we go to a party. I don't go to as many parties as you all be real. I don't go to as many parties. And it's interesting, one thing you said earlier really stuck with me because when I first left media, it actually took me a minute to dig through why it took me so long to leave media. But I was able to say to myself, oh my God, I feel really garbage saying this, but the truth is not having a business card or an email address that says Netflix or Fox or Us Weekly or whatever. Oh my God, who's going to want to email with me? And then I was like, well, the people who don't want to email with me won't email with me and the people who will will. But it really took me a while. I was having a major identity crisis.
Melissa (15:00):
I think we all do,
Kim (15:02):
But it's the wherewithal too to keep going. Okay, here's my question. So now, okay, start your business six months and you got some clients now that's 2015, so it's been years and years and years. Tell me about a moment where you wanted to hide under your desk and cry.
Melissa (15:16):
Oh my God, I think you know the story and I'm going to be very diplomatic in the way I tell it, but Covid was really hard and we saw a lot of things change with business and suddenly people were homes. We had captive audiences, so a lot of people were coming to us, but they were also like, oh, the economy. So the budgets weren't great. And so I hired a bunch of people and really was like, okay, now we're going to be a real company. And in January, 2022, it's so funny, I tell this story to people all the time. They're like, I can't believe you're so open about it, but I feel like if we don't talk about these things, we were six figures in debt and I was floating the business through my savings to pay my employees. And I said to my, let's call that person my number two, listen, what are we going to do?
(16:00):
I can't make payroll. And instead of saying, okay, I'll forego part of my paycheck this month or something, they said, well, I don't know what you want me to do. That's not my problem and I need to take care of my family. Back up for a second. In the end of 2020, my partner was in a very bad accident. He was in the ICU, he was in a coma. It was the whole thing. He was in rehab for months and months and months. So it's always been my priority to take care of my family. We had a 1-year-old at the time of his accident and having somebody literally not even look me in the eye, it was on the phone while they were going on their third vacation of the year, suddenly they were more important than us. And I was looking at this business, I was like, we got to be critical.
(16:36):
And those next few months were miserable. I cried a lot. I called Patrice, our mutual friend. I said, who was that person who helped you redo your business? kp. She's the best. Krista Marie ano. She's still with me to this day and she's wonderful. And she kind of looked at the books and they say the numbers don't lie. And that's a terrible feeling when you're talking to people and you're like, but they're saying all the right things. The numbers didn't lie. And it was a cleaning of the house. And my intern at the time had gone to Europe for the summer. She graduated, went to Europe and was so excited to come back for a job as an assistant. And I called her in Spain and I said, listen, if you don't want to come back, I understand this is a different company. And she was like, nah, dude, I can't wait to get back. See you soon. And the first few weeks I was really nervous. She's still with me. She sits next to me, she's right out here. She's my girl. I'm very proud of her. I flew right after I kind of let go of a bunch of people straight to the Caribbean. I was asked by a TV producer and friend, if I could come do press for a celebrity wedding in Anguilla. I was like, duh.
Kim (17:40):
Yeah, well let think about that. Yes.
Melissa (17:43):
Are you paying for all of it? And my family
Kim (17:44):
Great. Yes.
Melissa (17:45):
And so people thought I was having a nervous breakdown. I sent this email being like, these people no longer employees, and if you need me, I'll be out of the office. It was Memorial Day weekend, I'll be out of the office till Tuesday. I'm in Anguilla. So people thought I lost my mind and flew to the Caribbean to whatever. Instead I flew to the Caribbean for a layup and literally knocked it out of the park with the press for the wedding. It was a killer. And I got back, and while I was down there, I met this amazing woman and she said, my daughter just graduated. I was wearing a director of vibe baseball hat. And she said, my daughter just graduated and she was looking for a job. And I was like, have her call me. And that was higher number two. And my friend was moving back from Australia and right before all that happened, he was with me and KP and he's like, look, we'll get through this together. And he sits out there too, and that's the core four, if you will. But oh my God, those months between January, February and Memorial Day were some of the hardest months of my life.
Kim (18:33):
Wait, so take me through it. How many people did you have before 2022 then you basically had to lay off everybody. No, I
Melissa (18:39):
Didn't lay them out. Oh, I had to fire them of some things that were going on. So it was very different laying off because of being a financial look, I could have taken out a line of credit, I could have done a million things. This wasn't that. It occurred to me that the people who were my employees were one, not working on behalf of me or the brand we were building, but two, they weren't working on behalf of our clients, so they were basically just taking paychecks and doing whatever they wanted. That was really a hard pill to swallow, especially because your employees or partners or whatever or your friends, you hope you think that they'll be honest about things. And so when I say the numbers wouldn't lie, it wasn't about the money we were getting in. We had made a few mistakes. I didn't know, you know what, you know I was taking retainers in arrears.
(19:23):
I would never do that again. We don't do that anymore. But I didn't know people would be like, I'll pay you at the end of the month, but then people argue with you, you didn't do enough this month, so I don't want to pay you. So that's why. And we were floating on a credit card and getting through payroll and I was like, I didn't know. I have two very smart parents. My dad is a huge cheerleader, as is my mom. My mom's an entrepreneur and a successful one. You've met her and my mom is a business woman, but not a business person, if that makes sense. And my dad is that person. And so I'm a little bit in the middle where if you teach it to me, I'll understand it, but it doesn't come naturally to
Kim (19:55):
Me. Yes.
Melissa (19:56):
So having somebody like K come on and help me and say, this is how your business is profitable, but the reason it doesn't feel or look profitable is because these people aren't paying you and you can't be the one asking for money. And I think that's a big thing that we forget when we leave a corporate job. So now we also have to act on our own behalf to get paid.
Kim (20:14):
What do you mean you can't ask for money? What do you mean you can't ask for money?
Melissa (20:16):
Well, when you're running a company, it was hard for me to be the CEO calling these people and then also doing the work and being like, Hey, we have all these great things coming up, but by the way, you owe me $20,000. So having a buffer was a really smart move. Having another person who touches the money, I know what's going on, I'm well aware, but I don't have to have that conversation to keep the relationship pleasant.
Kim (20:38):
I found that really helpful as well. I have an assistant now and I'm like, actually, you chase up that invoice. Actually, I don't want to say it's beneath me, but it's unbecoming of the person who's doing the work and the face of the business to have to chase those up. And I do think there is that element of keeping it separate church and state, having those calls. I have actually even thought it's funny. I had a couple of inquiries come in for speaking engagements and I responded to it and I was like, I shouldn't even be responding to this. I should actually have my assistant respond to it. That's on me. It helps when you have that layer between
Melissa (21:05):
Actually you need a little layer of protection. And even now when we get new business inquiries that come through the info@ifpcommunications.com, in case anyone's listening, when we get those come in, I read them and then I pass 'em off to Derek and KP and I'm like, here's my POV. You guys do with it what you will. And they make good decisions on behalf of the brand. And what is it called? I know we were before talking about it. It's like your fiduciary responsibility when you work for a company, it's your fiduciary responsibility to work, I believe with integrity on behalf of the company
(21:41):
And as an employer, when you find out your employees are not doing that, it's a really hard pill to swallow. And there's a reason why we keep winning awards like best places to work because I want a happy, healthy environment. I believe in work-life compromise I a child, but creating some of those guardrails for me specifically and also for the business has helped us grow exponentially. We went from being six figures in the hole to a seven figure business in less than 18 months. It's a big jump, but I surrounded myself with the right people this time instead of the people I wanted to be nice to.
Kim (22:14):
Yeah, I'm writing down, I'm like going from six figures in debt to seven figure business. I'm like, star, star. Put that in the show notes. Kim, that is really amazing. Congratulations.
Melissa (22:23):
Thank you.
Kim (22:23):
It was a lot of hard work and a lot of sweat and tears with a business advisor. Financial advisor as a part of it. Do you think that's the key to going from debt to seven figures in 18 months?
Melissa (22:34):
Yeah, I think it's understanding the business. I think so many of us start as entrepreneurs and know what we're really good at, but when you forget that you're not good at everything and you don't have to be, you still try to push through on those other things. And so having somebody who could look at the business critically and objectively from 30,000 feet and say, okay, this is what should be looking like and this is what it looks like and this is why, and then it's like this is how you should be servicing clients and this is what you're currently doing and this is how we need to fix some of those things. It's putting up guardrails, and I really believe in, again, to my detriment, I will pay people even if they sucked at their job. I just don't want that karma of not paying people. But what I learned through that process was that also asking for the money and getting the money you are entitled to and agreed to is also part of karma. And having somebody who could look at all of that and kind of teach me along the way, but also putting up guardrails really made a huge difference.
Kim (23:31):
But here's my question to you. Were saying you were making a mistake by getting paid at the end of the month after the work had been done, but I feel like with corporate invoicing, normally with my regular business owners, I don't do any work until the first payment's in, but I feel with corporate accounts, I just did work for a company and I have my invoice and I assume it's going to come in within the month, but I feel like that's a standard thing where corporations take longer to pay it out.
Melissa (23:55):
So they do. And that's the 30, 60, 90 day pay and stuff like that. Our MSA you pay at the first of the month and by the third for the month following, that's it. In the old days, it was like you had 15 days after the first day of the month. And so now I'm at six weeks and I still have no money. You know what I mean?
(24:12):
And even with our corporate clients, we again put in guardrails. So if they are on a 30 day pay cycle, we send the invoice. If they won't pay us November 1st, unless they get the invoice October 1st, that invoice comes September 28th so that we know, and I don't think people tell you this in entrepreneur school. Can I tell you one of the biggest aha moments for me when it comes to money? And I think people don't talk honestly about it, especially in entrepreneurship because there is this weird underlying competition, but I always say the pie just gets bigger. Doesn't mean your piece or my piece are getting smaller, but until you understand what it costs to do your job dollars against minutes, you're probably giving a lot of stuff away. And so I always tell people when I talk to a lot of mostly young women come to me who are leaving corporate roles in PR and marketing and they're like, I want to go on my own.
(25:04):
What do I need to know? I'm like, okay, let's look at your service offerings. And this is a hundred percent KP taught this to me. I understood it when she explained it to me, and it's not that my parents didn't teach it to me, but sitting with somebody who wasn't so closely linked to me made it a lot easier. But I sit down with them and I'm like, what are you thinking about charging for your retainer? And they'll be like $2,000. And I'm like, okay, how much time do you have to put into that? Oh, 20 hours. I'm like, okay, so that means you're getting paid. What is the math on that a hundred dollars an hour? Is that the right math?
Kim (25:29):
Yeah, right.
Melissa (25:31):
This is why, but no, no, $10 an hour, $10 an hour, right? How many hours did they say it was 20 hours?
Kim (25:38):
A hundred dollars
Melissa (25:39):
Point is when you start to look at the numbers like that, you're like, wait, I'm making $14 an hour on this. That's crazy. And it's like, yeah, you got to work backwards, friends, you'll give stuff away for free. That's part of being in the service industry, and that's about customer service and that's about servicing clients.
Kim (25:54):
Well, I think also the irony becomes that you value your time more the busier you get. So I feel like when I started my business, which is so totally insane, and Patrice, who I love was one of people to give me all the contracts and some contexts to connect with and templates and stuff, but I was first thinking, A, who's going to pay me money besides video production, which I didn't want to keep doing. That's an obvious one, but I was like, who's going to hire me for high level consulting, which is what I was an executive producer and a vice president of strategy for video. It's like, well, who can afford that? Who can use that? Fine. Then I started getting actually busier with my work such that when someone would want to do work with me, I would be like, great, when the check clears, I will get on the phone and we'll do our kickoff call.
(26:35):
I was busy, so I respected my time more, but when I wasn't busy, you start doing the work at a discounted rate, blah, blah, blah. Then you realize, oh, I just trained this person to think I'm worth X dollars per hour, $7 an hour, a hundred dollars and $150 an hour, whatever it is. You can't climb your way back out of that. You can give a discount. You can say, this is my normal rate. I'm giving you a discount for this period because of whatever reason. But if you don't set yourself at that price, you're basically always going to stay at that rate. And the same thing I think about this, if I had a vendor and if they start out on their $20 an hour and then two months later they're like, I'm now $75 an hour, I'd be like, whoa, that's not in my budget. I wasn't thinking about, it's not beneficial for either side. And so I think when you're really busy, you can start setting those boundaries when you're starting out. It's really hard to say it
Melissa (27:16):
Is. I also think it's the headspace you enter it in, right? Because you're right. When you're really busy, it's much easier to set boundaries. But my biggest piece of advice, my dad always instilled this in me as a kid because my dad was always like, what time flight are you going to get on? And I'm like, well, this one's this price and this one's a connecting and it's this price. And he is like, so how much is it worth for you not to connect and lose those three hours? And I'm like, oh, you're right. He's like, every minute of your day has a dollar value assigned to it. And that's not about being working for money or anything else. It's just like your time is valuable because it is limited in this life that we get.
Kim (27:51):
My husband's like that too. So he was a consultant for a long time, and so whenever I do things, he's just like, is that worth your time? And it's not about whether you're charging someone for that time or not, but I think you value your time more definitely if you're a parent when you have kids, a hundred percent because your free time gets whittled down to zero. So basically I won't do anything that I hate in my free time for fun. I hate cleaning. I'm not going to clean my house. I hate it
Melissa (28:15):
And I'd rather pay somebody to do it, and I can afford to do that because getting time to not do it is really more people
Kim (28:19):
Sweet. And I'm not a particularly good cook. I like baking. I'll bake with my daughter, that's fun, but I'm not that good of a cook and it's not relaxing for me at all. So that's not one of the things that I will do for my family or in my time.
Melissa (28:30):
This morning was the first morning in weeks that it was quiet and nobody was in my bed, and it was like six in the morning. I woke up a little before six and I was like, I should totally get on the Peloton or do a mirror workout, or maybe I should go down to the gym and get on the treadmill. And then I was like, I'm going to lay in bed and drink coffee and watch the news and that's
Kim (28:47):
Fine. Okay. I want to go through a couple of things that I find really interesting because for listeners who know me, we're in adjacent fields and I've worked in media for so long that I know so many publicists. And I think one of the questions I get in my field that I know PR gets, talk to me about the ROI on public relations.
Melissa (29:07):
It's such a hard one because I think when people ask that question, they don't know what answer they want and they're looking at me to give them the answer. So I'm going to break this into two sections. The first thing I always tell people and brands is do not hire PR until you're willing to lose a hundred thousand dollars. And they're like, oh my god. And I'm like, if you're not willing to put up that money, the $24,000 you spend is going to be just thrown in the, you get what you pay for bottom line in life. That's it. So if you're not willing to invest in it, you can't be surprised when you don't get the results you wanted. That's just the way it works. So my first thing is always if you really want to invest in pr, put a budget against it.
(29:48):
That's a substantial healthy budget to get the best people to do the best work for you and find the person who is the best to do the thing that you need them to do. The second thing I always say to people is, I know a hundred thousand dollars feels like a lot when you're starting up, but here's the thing, you need to remember. You're only a startup once. You're only a new founder. Once that period of time is the opportunity for you to go out in the world and make a million relationships and do your own pr. You're your best publicist. Why are you paying me when you know every intimacy about the brand, every intimate detail, don't pay me, save the money, go do it yourself. Because only at the beginning are when people really want to talk to you. And you know this, you produce videos for brands all the time.
(30:24):
They want the founder at the beginning. That's the foundation of the brand. And so then the third thing I say is when it comes to RI, it's like what is the ROI? Well, what do you want? Do you want brand awareness? Do you want sales? Do you want celebrities? Do you want people to just talk about you? Are you looking to break through in a new category? It could be any of those things. So to say it's one thing would again, be unfair to the bigger picture. So I think when I talk to entrepreneurs and new brands and startups, I always say those three things, do you have the money to spend? Are you done telling your story? And then I send them to you or Patrice to do it for them. And do you know what you really want at the end of the day from this? If you can answer those three questions, you can figure out your ROI. If the goal is brand awareness and you have the money, you hire the best placement media relations team you can get, and you tell them, I need to see these kinds of results. This is what I'm looking for. This is the lift I need to the website. That's how you quantify it.
Kim (31:22):
So you feel like it's basically if they're asking ROI and they don't have specific goals, they want to meet at the ROI, you shouldn't really have that meeting. It's not really worth it.
Melissa (31:30):
No. It's just like, so we're just going to talk about vague things and hope that somebody gives them an answer. It's a little bit like who's the adult in the room, who's in charge and what do we want?
Kim (31:39):
Well, so then I have a question. So what sort of revenue do companies generally have that they start investing in pr? What sort of level are they at?
Melissa (31:47):
Well, they always say your marketing budget should be 10%, 20% of your total, whatever. So if you raise money, you raise a million dollars, it should be 100 to $200,000. You get what you paid for. There are amazing consultants, but even my friends who are consultants, when they sometimes tell me their rates, I'm like, that's not your rate. We're going to attack 20% on that. And then we go to the brand and say, listen, you can't afford us at X, but I know you can afford them at Y. This is your person. So again, it's hard to say depending on what stage you are in your business, if you're raising money, if you're bootstrapping, if you're privately funded, whatever it is, it's hard to say where you need to land in there in terms of how much to spend. But yeah, that's how I would get to that. I guess
Kim (32:29):
It's interesting. One of the things that I've learned, and to your point for me being an entrepreneur, I'm a very quick study. I'm not saying I'm the smartest person in every area, but I'm a really fast learner. So I basically got a business coach. I got someone to teach me how to do online whatever. Basically this year I'm earning more than I did at Netflix. That's amazing. Congratulations, muzzle.
Melissa (32:46):
We should go and celebrate or come to my house. I have a lot of champagne to drink. Don't ask why.
Kim (32:50):
I will drink it gladly. Thank you. But I think that one of the best things I learned, and I feel like I've learned from so many women, there's a couple of threads that you mentioned earlier. So number one, I like your point of people don't teach you things, but what I have found is when you start being more open and you start asking more assertive questions, people will tell you, and I found that both for peer-to-peer knowledge sharing. So I'll say to someone, can I ask you what you're charging? And they're like, sure. Here's my services and here's my offerings. I'm like,
Melissa (33:15):
Hundred percent.
Kim (33:15):
Wow, that's so generous. But you never ask someone else what they earn because there's this, don't ask, don't tell, blah, blah, blah. But what I found was not only did I learn more about how to run a business by asking more assertive questions to people, what are you charging? What do you do when this happens? But what I also learned is on sales calls, how to be a better listener and how to get more information out of people when they are asking me questions. So I've had someone say, what's the ROI, whatever. And then I said, well, there are various ROIs. It depends on your goals. What are your goals? And then I had them say their goals. I'm like, okay, so if you're looking for a higher quality presence on social media, absolutely we can hit that. In some ways it's subjective, but it's not really like, I see what you're posting now I can make that better.
(34:00):
And then I'm like, what are the other goals? And she's just more leads. I'm like, great, we will make you really good content, but we will also raise you as a thought leader so that people respect you more and drive that to make those connections. That's not just content creation. That's a mixture of in-person, lead generation and online strategy. And so I say things, I think that asking better questions on calls for people is helpful. And then I'm like, I could tell you the ROI on these things once you tell me your goals. And I feel like, and that closes the deals because I can say with certainty, I can deliver on the ROIs. And if you're too vague, I don't want to work with you because I feel like you'll be unhappy, I'll be unhappy. I'll feel stressed. I won't be sleeping because I'll be like, I didn't make my client happy
Melissa (34:38):
As a founder, if you don't have that money to lose, if you're not willing to lose a hundred thousand dollars and do it without freaking out, then don't spend it on somebody else because no matter what they do, you're not going to be happy. Pretend that money's going to you and work like it's a hundred thousand dollars that you are paying yourself because it will pay back in dividends.
Kim (34:54):
Yes.
Melissa (34:55):
Oh, something that is really interesting. So yeah, we need to be more open about it. We need to talk more about it. The thing that was really profound for me also a few years ago is I had a friend who always had these really big corporate jobs and we were like bosom buddies and it was fun and we had different kind of skills, and I was always the cool indie and she was the big corporate, and she would call me for these projects all the time and she'd be like, we don't really have much of a budget. I can pay you $2,000. I can pay you 2,500. And I'd be like, that's less than I pay an intern. You're expecting all this stuff and I know that your retainers are 40, 50, $60,000. It was again, a real aha moment to see when you talk about how people value your time in those times when I was, I don't want to say desperate, but in those times when I didn't have stuff and I was willing to do it for her, it never changed for her. In the end, it was really hurtful to, I would say our friendship too, because I was like, so you can make six figures at a big company and do $40,000 a month retainers, but I'm literally only ever going to be $20,000 to you. That sucks. And that's not a good, you don't feel good when that's life.
Kim (36:04):
Yeah.
Melissa (36:05):
Okay.
Kim (36:05):
Melissa, you ready for rapid fire?
Melissa (36:07):
Oh my God. Yeah. Wait, hold on. Let's do it. I miss you. I haven't seen you, I tell you a week ago, but still
Kim (36:15):
We'll get that rapid fire. We're going to light right up that lighter. Sorry. Before we go to rapid fire, how did you end up sort of moving past your partner or your husband having that crazy accident? How did you end up regrouping and moving forward in your personal and professional life?
Melissa (36:29):
So something I always talk about is this idea of risk and calculated risk. And I think it's so important. Again, as entrepreneurs since I was a little kid, I was always about a calculated risk. My first job, I was in seventh grade, I called every designer in New York City and finally Anna Swes, assistant Thomas Miller, may he rest in peace. He was the best. I was asking him if I could go to the fashion shows, I wanted to cover it and do a book report for school. He goes, well, why don't you come, but also we can take you backstage. We'll show you what it really is. And yeah, I sat there for hours calling everybody in the phone book. This was a while ago. I won't say how long, but it was a calculated risk. Okay, I have two hours. I'm going to go through the first 20, 25 and one person's bound to say yes.
(37:11):
When you frame your career like that, for me it was a calculated risk. I could keep these people and hope that I could triage and fix the situation, or I could say, let them go and I'll find new people and I'll figure this out. And I had to do it. When you talk about it, you're like, oh my God. I was like hysterical. I was not sleeping. It was horrible. So I think taking calculated risks are the way that you can bet on yourself safely. I'm not telling you to burn it down, walk out hand, one of those cakes to your boss that says, fuck you, I'm out. Am I allowed to curse on here? I'm sorry. But I think there are really ways where you could be like, okay, I'm going to spend three extra hours a week on my side hustle before I leave so that when it's time to leave, I feel really comfortable. Life is about those decisions.
Kim (37:55):
And one thing you said earlier in the interview that I thought was about the idea of hiring the right people, and I have, my oldest brother has a big company and he basically is my number one commitment is to keep my employees happy, which I think is amazing when you're that successful and you're like, actually, I want to keep my clients happy and I want to keep my employees happy. But I think about this, when I launched the video unit for US Weekly, I got to basically have a startup on their budget, which is amazing, an unbelievable thing. And I made that opportunity to happen. I just went into their office, I was like, you don't have any video, but you have a great brand. I can make it for you. And he was like, who the hell is this person? And then that's
Melissa (38:28):
The calculated risk too.
Kim (38:30):
They didn't hire me in a year later. I was like, I'm still here. I'm going to make it happen. And I did. I got to hire everyone. And everyone knew that because it was startup mentality within an existing business, but it really was a startup mentality. And the people who were super invested worked their butts off and we had the best time, and I could tell we got maybe one or two out of honestly 15 people or something, 17 people, one or two people came in a little like, is this beneath me? This isn't what I used to do. And I was like, Hey, if this isn't working for you, that's no problem. Yeah. Because I'm just like, this is an amazing opportunity. Everyone's paid fairly. We're having so much fun. You're going to build something, getting to build something.
Melissa (39:09):
It's exciting.
Kim (39:09):
It's amazing and exciting. And so I do feel like there's that idea of if you're into it, you're into it. If you're going to give yourself as an employee and be super committed, we're going to have the best time. And if this isn't right for you, it's not going to be right for me.
Melissa (39:21):
Wait, no harm, no foul,
Kim (39:22):
No harm, no foul. It's mutual. We've all had jobs where it's not you, it's me. It's both of us. Maybe both of us. That's okay.
Melissa (39:29):
Quiet quitting thing really gets to me. I'm like, why wouldn't you just leave? Just leave. I'm a
Kim (39:34):
Loud quitter and a quiet stayer.
Melissa (39:38):
I love it. You're like, I got to go. This isn't working.
Kim (39:40):
I got to leave. Goodbye.
Melissa (39:41):
It's not me, you. I'm out.
Kim (39:44):
I'm a quiet stayer. I just hang out at my chair. I don't quit. I stay. I do my work.
Melissa (39:49):
Put my head down.
Kim (39:50):
Alright, Melissa's ready for rapid fire. I feel it.
Melissa (39:52):
Okay, let's do it.
Kim (39:53):
What does success mean to you?
Melissa (39:55):
Being able to buy the things that I want, and I know that sounds really shallow, but in this industry there are a lot of people who are like, oh, I got gifted this. And I mean, I get presents, but feeling the accomplishment of being able to go on a vacation that I really want to go in and not have to think about it twice, like, oh my God. Because it's not about the amount of money, it's not about the object. It's about having the freedom that you can do what you love and not be tied to the dollar signs. And I do think a lot of people can go there. That may sound very, look, I've worked really hard and I'm proud of the work that I've done, and it feels really wonderful to be able to do that. And it can be anything. It could be like, I want to go to Starbucks every day and I don't have to think about it.
Kim (40:30):
I know you meant
Melissa (40:31):
Starbucks. You meant a Chanel be
Kim (40:32):
Weirdest job you've ever had.
Melissa (40:34):
I was the special events counselor at Sleepaway camp, which obviously then led into being the director of vibe at a five star hotel group. So I guess that one.
Kim (40:45):
Okay. I'm literally writing my notes, sleepaway counselor events. So I take notes during the thing and I'm like, what? I love that. Okay. An embarrassing moment in life or work,
Melissa (40:56):
This is a hard one. I'm slow on your rapid fire today. Embarrassing moment in life or work.
Kim (41:00):
Okay, first thing you do in the morning,
Melissa (41:01):
Check my phone, but I also, yeah, I know it's so bad. Me too. But then I go to my living room and look at the sunrise, and I do the same thing at the sunset every night. If I'm home and I feel like waking up with the sun and watching the city as it starts to come alive and then watching it go to sleep is the most incredible part of the day. I am somebody who still in awe of so many things, which I feel lucky about. If it's a beautiful sunset, I'm literally Don't talk to me. This is amazing.
Kim (41:27):
Yeah. My husband and I were gawing at the book. The bridge gets lit up, it has new lights on it, and we gaw at it every night. Okay. Advice you'd give to another business owner.
Melissa (41:36):
Don't invest in PR until you have a hundred thousand dollars to lose and bet on yourself. Oh, I have to say this. This is my motto. Don't worry about what happens. This is why the embarrassing question didn't work for me. Everybody loves to comeback. People want to see you win. I say this all the time, nobody wants to see you fail. It's a Robert Evans quote, and I thought about it when I moved to the Caribbean and I said to my roommate at the time, I was like, what if nobody remembers me? What if this is a terrible idea? He goes, babe, we're in Hollywood. Everybody loves a comeback. And I was like, and I live by that. I should get it tattooed on me. That is my advice. Everybody loves a comeback. Don't worry. You're going to have wins and you're going to have losses, but people want to see you win.
Kim (42:10):
Worst advice you've ever gotten.
Melissa (42:12):
The first time I got, I don't know, I was going to make a joke, but I'm like, order all the entrees. When you live in a hotel at the same time, that's probably not a good one.
Kim (42:22):
Embarrassing parenting moment.
Melissa (42:23):
I wouldn't say it's embarrassing, but my kid, who you've met is a vibe. And literally this week walked into school. We were talking about bullying and bigger kids and being mean. And I played this Taylor Swift song for him called Mean, and he walked into school with my phone singing so loud. Someday I'll be living in a big old city and oh, you are ever going to be as mean. That speaks to, he was telling people, it's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me in preschool. And they were like, is something going on at home? I'm like, no. He listens to Taylor. We listen to lot.
Kim (42:56):
Everyone's, the teachers are worried about him. He's just, listen. The
Melissa (42:59):
Was like, what is the song that you're singing? And he's like, it's Taylor Swift. It's about bullies.
Kim (43:04):
Melissa, on that note, on Swifties sleepaway camp counselors vibing. Melissa, this was so fun. Where can people connect with you?
Melissa (43:11):
So yeah, at Melissa Rosenfield on Instagram all day long, M-E-L-I-S-S-A-R-O-S-E-N-F-I-E-L-D. That's a long one. I know. It's mouthful at ifpcommunications.com. We love come reach out. I always say to people, my door is always open. I get people all the time who DM me and they're like, are you taking mentees? Are you open to a, so I'm always happy to chat with people. This was so fun, Kim. This is so fun. It makes me want to see you more in person.
Kim (43:34):
I'll take that champagne that you promised me. Thank you, Melissa. Thank you.
(43:43):
Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Rittberg.