Ep. 127/ Inspiring Confidence and Mastering Negotiations: Lydia Fenet's Expert Advice
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We have the incredible Lydia Fenet joining us, a top charity auctioneer who has raised over $1 billion for nonprofits and a renowned expert in negotiation strategies. Lydia shares her tips on mastering negotiation by establishing clear outcome points, preparing extensively, and embracing flexibility. This piqued my interest,the importance of emotional detachment during negotiations and how self-perception can shape others' views of you. Lydia reveals her unique journey from an intern at Christie’s to leading her own successful agency.
We go over Lydia's strategies for maintaining work-life balance as a mother of three, her inspiring approach to overcoming setbacks, and the art of using humor to engage any audience. She even shares her candid thoughts on working with celebrities at charity events.
This episode provides a masterclass in negotiation, confidence-building, and finding your unique voice in the world of business
In this episode you will learn:
How Lydia learned to public speak - 21:38
How preparation is the key to success - 31:27
How to establish low, medium, and high outcome points to navigate negotiations - 32:08
How to be a better listener - 35:08
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In this empowering episode of "The Exit Interview," host Kim Rittberg dives deep with renowned auctioneer Lydia Fennett, who shares invaluable negotiation strategies and tips for building confidence. Lydia reveals her tried-and-true methods for pre-negotiation preparation, establishing clear goals, and maintaining emotional detachment to gain a competitive edge. Listeners will discover how personal branding and self-perception can significantly influence professional success. Lydia also offers an inspiring glimpse into work-life balance, role modeling for children, and the importance of overcoming imposter syndrome. Tune in to learn how Lydia's dynamic approach as an auctioneer has raised over $100 million for nonprofits.
In this episode you will learn:
How Lydia learned to public speak - 21:38
How preparation is the key to success - 31:27
How to establish low, medium, and high outcome points to navigate negotiations - 32:08
How to be a better listener - 35:08
Quotes from our guest:
"Confidence comes from things that you are not sure you can do. Trying those things and then realizing that A, you could do it or B, you didn't do it, but you survived." - 25:13
"When you walk into the negotiation, always be willing to think about things in a way to open the pie, so additional things you can add in and give away." - 33:29
"So instead of looking at it as like work, life, balance, where everything lines up, I look at it as a series of sprints and plateaus." - 39:48
Lydia’s Bio:
With a two-decade career as a charity auctioneer raising over a billion dollars from non-profits in the US, Europe and the Middle East, Lydia Fenet is the gold standard for charity auctioneers. Named by the Today Show as the world’s leading charity auctioneer, she takes over 70 auctions a year and has graced the stage for the largest grossing charity events in the world including Robin Hood, The Naples Winter Wine Festival, Tipping Point, The Elton John Aids Foundation, the Breast Cancer Research Foundation and over a thousand more. Her auctioneering style is personality driven, entertaining and effective which is effective in both engaging and motivating the crowd with her trademark wit and charm.
Having trained twelve classes of charity auctioneering team for Christie’s during her twenty-four-year career with the company, Lydia knows how to identify talent. At Lydia Fenet Agency (LFA), each auctioneer has been selected and trained by Lydia Fenet. Her exclusive team of elite auctioneers will help you create a strategy for your auction, deliver results and entertain your crowd no matter the size of your auction. Auctioneers will provide guidance on lot order as well as advise on the best technologies to work with every level of non-profit fundraising. Each auctioneer is chosen to ensure you have the right match for your level of fundraiser.
You’ve carefully curated every part of your event to ensure success, make sure that a LFA auctioneer takes your event to the next level.
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LYDIA’S LINKS:
Kim (00:02):
You are going to hear from Lydia Fenet. She is an auctioneer who runs the Lydia Fenet Agency and has raised over a hundred million dollars. I've seen her in action and she is incredible, great at her job and really knows how to own a room. So Lydia comes with tips on how to build your confidence, how to improve your mindset, and how to negotiate because that's what she does every single day. Welcome to the Exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Do you work for yourself and want to supercharge your business while still having fun? Well, this is your go-to podcast part MBA Part Cheer Squad. Every week I'll be joined by top business owners who share the secrets to their success. After I found myself working during childbirth true story, I quit my executive media job to bet on myself fighting the fear and imposter syndrome to eventually earn six awards, an in-demand speaking career and features in Fast Company and Business Insider. Now I'm here to celebrate all you rock stars betting on yourself, and I want to help you win. Tune in every Wednesday to hear from remarkable founders and don't miss our Solo Friday episodes, a treasure trove of video and podcasting mini masterclasses with me. Exit the Grind, enter success on your own terms. Don't forget to subscribe today and grab my free video tips at my website, kimrittberg.com.
(01:24):
With the two decade career as a charity auctioneer raising over a billion dollars from nonprofits in the US, Europe and the Middle East. Lydia Fenet is the gold standard for Charity Auctioneers named by the Today Show. As the world's leading charity auctioneer, she takes over 70 auctions a year and has graced the stage for the largest grossing charity events in the world, including Robinhood, the Naples Winter Wine Festival, tipping Point, the Elton John AIDS Foundation, the Breast Cancer Research Foundation, and over a thousand more. Her auctioneering style is personality driven, entertaining and effective, which is effective in both engaging and motivating the crowd with her trademark Wi and Charm. Having trained 12 classes of charity auctioneering teams for Christie's during her 24 year career with the company, Lydia knows how to identify talent at LFA Lydia Fenet Company. Each auctioneer has been selected and trained by Lydia Fenet.
(02:08):
Her exclusive team of Elite Auctioneers helps create a strategy for auctions delivering results and entertaining crowds no matter the size. They provide guidance on lot order as well as advising on the best technologies to work with every level of nonprofit, fundraising, nonprofit, fundraising. So Lydia, talk to me about how you got into auctioneering, but by the way, I'm going to tell the audience. So I saw Lydia on stage a year or two ago. My brother was being honored for a charity that he's involved with called Casa Court appointed special advocates, and Lydia was on the stage and we were all like, who's that magical human? And you made a charity auction really, really fun. And I think that was the first time I'd ever seen that. So then anyway, I started following Lydia online, and then Lydia and I both spoke at the Fast Company Innovation Festival this year and last year. So I've really been following Lydia and I thought that I think a, you are amazing at what you do obviously, but I also thought that our audience would have a lot to learn from you specifically about negotiating and all that. So we're definitely going to jump into negotiating tactics, all of those good things. But how did you get into auctioneering?
Lydia (03:15):
Well, I started working at Christie's when I was in college. So I was an intern at Christie's between my junior and senior year in college. And it wasn't something that I knew anything about honestly. I had read an article in Vanity Fair Magazine about Christie's Auction House and about this place where you could go, and in this case, they had auctioned off the dresses of Princess Diana for a nonprofit and it really captured my imagination. I just thought it was amazing. I thought the idea behind this whole company was really cool, but I didn't really understand what it was. I just loved the idea of it. And then when I started working there and I got to see the auctioneers up close and personal, I realized that it might be something that I wanted to do. And so you would try out to be an auctioneer.
(03:57):
And so I tried out to be an auctioneer when I was 24 and I ended up passing the class. And then as a result of just two things my age and the fact that I was super eager, they really let me get on stage pretty much immediately and then I never got off. And so about 20 years later, I always say to people, if there's a stage or a microphone and someone needs anything, they're always Lydia. Just get up there on the stage because I'm so comfortable up there. Having been up there for so many years that it all lends itself to just more performance.
Kim (04:28):
So obviously now you're 20 years into it. When you first started, were you a theater kid? Were you a comedian? Is it that you loved? Where did that come from?
Lydia (04:37):
I've always loved being on stage. I grew up in Louisiana. I sang in church, I think like any good southern girls, I was singing in church for every service. And then my older brother had an incredible voice in the organist at our small church in Louisiana, knew about this choir school in Manhattan, and he basically said to Charles, I think you should audition in fifth grade. So to most people, they would be like, why would you ever do that? My mom is British and had gone to boarding school when she was around the same age. So it seemed something that was very natural. And he went up and applied and got in immediately and basically sang number one in the choir. I had a lot of music in my life. We would come to New York and sit in church and listen to every single service that they sang in.
(05:20):
You sing a lot of hymns, you listened to a lot of music. I think as a result, I always just wanted to be up there because it was an all boys school. I wasn't allowed to apply, but I kept singing, I sang, I went to a boarding school in Connecticut, and then I sang in the acapella singing group and I sang in the choir there, and I just always loved it. And any chance I had to get on stage, I would do it. But then in college, I didn't really do any of that. I tried out for the choir, I made it, and then it was sort of early Sunday morning, and that just seemed like more than I wanted to do after late nights out in college. And so I didn't do any singing there and I never really got on stage while I was in college.
(05:56):
And so this for me was kind of an odd opportunity. You were on stage, but you were supposed to do something that was pretty scripted and pretty normal for anyone auctioneering. So there wasn't really a lot of comedy in it. There wasn't really a lot of performance the way that I had performed. It was more about the actual auctioneering itself, so a little dry, all numbers based, you're working against what they call a reserve, which is basically the number the person gives who wants to sell a piece of art or jewelry. They're like, you can't sell it for less than this amount. And so you as the auctioneer have to navigate this whole maze to get to that reserve, and it's complicated and it's difficult. And that was Art auctioneering. And so basically anyone who was an art auctioneer was also allowed to be a charity auctioneer. There wasn't a separate training for it. It was sort of like, we just need people to go out and take auctions and you guys have the skills, so get on stage. And that was really the landscape when I first started. So it wasn't really about entertaining a crowd, it was really just about getting up there, selling the piece and then getting off the way you would anything at Christie's.
Kim (06:59):
So I know this because I've seen you on stage and I feel like a part of what you do is really infuse it with a lot of humor. And I've seen other charity auctions, but you really do infuse it with humor. At what point were you like, I'm auctioning, I'm an auctioneer, but I want to be more personality driven? I want people to laugh because I do think this is kind of an aside. So my background is I was a TV writer and producer. I always knew I wanted to be on camera. I started doing a little bit of reporting and what I realized, I didn't really like to act, but I did like to sort of be myself and myself, not performative, but I like just being around people and I like teaching and writing and speaking. What I found now is now that I speak usually about public speaking or about video strategy marketing sort of things, from my 20 years in media, what I realize is everything comes full circle.
(07:46):
To your point about music, I always love to just make people laugh. Not necessarily on a stage, but just interpersonally. I wanted to be a TV either host or reporter. I didn't want to act. That's not my thing. And so now I find that teaching and speaking on stages is scratching the itches of, I actually love to teach people, I love for people to learn. I love to be their cheerleader, but it also scratches the itch of me being like, I make it fun. I'm not just teaching you in a bland, vanilla way. I'm going to get you up and you're dancing and you're chatting and you're laughing, and maybe I'm a little silly and I make sure to include that. And I feel like that's been something that I've been able to own over time. So I guess my question for you is, as an auctioneer, how did you end up deciding My voice is going to be that I'm funny and that I bring more personality to it?
Lydia (08:31):
Well, it happened many years into auctioneering. I think one of the things that was interesting for me being a young woman on stage, because people didn't expect a young woman to show up. Most of the auctioneers, if not pretty much all of them at that point were men. And so they didn't really think of me. They didn't really take me that seriously when I would come in. And so I'd get on stage and I would immediately default to what I'd seen. All the guys that I trained with do is take it in this very serious manner without a lot of humor, without a lot of comedy because I was already scared enough that I was not the person that they wanted. So I didn't want to then mess up even more, if that makes sense. And about a decade into my career, maybe a little less, but sort of late, my late twenties, so I'd probably been doing five or six years of it and a lot like 50 to 70 a year, maybe 70 to a hundred by that last year, I was just noticing that the crowds just were not enthusiastic.
(09:22):
I mean, you've been to many charity auctions, how dry it can be, and I was doing that. That's really what I was doing. I hadn't at that point realized there was an importance in not doing that because it wasn't being done in any other way. And so I ended up one night going to an auction and I was very sick. I said in my first book that I was sick, but I actually was just really hungover. I'd been out the night before, I'd had a hundred drinks with my friends. I was in my late twenties, and I mean, I was just dying. I'd been sick all day. I mean, God bless you if you've never been there. I have definitely been there before and I hope to never be there again. But that particular night I couldn't find anyone to replace me. And so I ended up going to this auction and I was about to get on stage and I just felt so awful.
(10:04):
It was like I couldn't become this sort of auctioneer version of Lydia. I just had to be myself. And I do have a really strong sense of humor. It's kind of how I get myself out of sticky situations. It's how I relate to my siblings, it's how I sort of live my life. And so that was really the first night that I lent very heavily into humor, just because I felt so awful. I was just like, whatever, I just need to get out of here. I don't need to win any awards. I've just got to get the money and get off stage. And somehow that approach for the first time gave me a crowd reaction that I'd been wanting for at that 0.5, six, seven years. And after I saw it work, I realized, oh, there's a different way to do this and maybe if I lean into this, it'll work a little better. And it was interesting because I said, if that had just been my aha moment, and I'd sort of been like, oh, comedy's for me, that would've been one thing. But we were just making so much more because people were paying attention and they were ready to hear the jokes and they wanted to hear what I was going to say next. And so all of a sudden Christie started getting these calls about this woman. Can we have the woman? I was the woman.
Kim (11:11):
Which woman? Which woman? The only
Lydia (11:12):
Woman. They're like the really tall woman. They're like, oh. But the really interesting part was the one thing that had really been the part that always made me feel uncomfortable became my biggest differentiator because even now, most of the time if people are like, oh, I'm looking for that, the woman, the tall woman who's kind of sassy and funny on stage, that's 99% of the time that's me. And there are a hundred guys out there who all kind of look the same. There. Shtick is kind of the same. Most of 'em are British and they all run together and you can't really define who one is and the next one is, whereas the part that always held me back actually became the best part of what I was doing because I was one of one. And that was really fun and exciting. And it's actually a thread that has gone through my career ever since because now I seek out those opportunities. I became the first female car auctioneer, total pivot in my job. Everyone's like a car auctioneer. And I was like, yeah, let's see. I'm the first one to do it. I might as well just try. And so those types of things now really excite me. If there is not a woman in the field, I'm like, let me get in there. I've done this before. I know what this feels like. I know what the pain points will be and I know how to overcome, so lemme go first. I'll do it.
Kim (12:26):
I love that in a way you sort of accidentally found your voice. That's how it happened. And I think people really struggle with that, but it's encouraging to hear that you were doing something for five years, seven years until you really found your voice. I teach people to show up on camera. I help them with their video strategy, but being authentic, it just takes a while. You're basically robotic or impersonating someone else. I laugh because when I did some on-camera reporting, I was like, this is Kim Richberg for F os one news. That's not how I talk at all. I do not talk like that. And so I think it just takes a while to say, oh, what's the blend of me being the professional me and the personal me that feels really right. But it's encouraging to know can take a while. You're still getting jobs, you still had your career, you still had your jobs, but to really hit your stride, it took that long. At what point did you say, I am doing great. I'm getting a lot of auctioneering opportunities. I want to start my own agency?
Lydia (13:19):
Well, gosh, I was an auctioneer at Christie's for over 20 years, so it didn't happen overnight for sure. It was a confluence of events. My entire family was in a pretty horrendous car accident on Halloween three years ago, and I was out of work for the first time. I mean, I've worked my whole life. I love working. I'd been at at that point for my first internship was when I was in college between my junior and senior in college. I think I was 18 or not 18, 19 at the time. I think for me, Christie's had been such a comfortable family-like environment for so long that I almost had stopped looking outside. I just knew that everything I really wanted to do was outside of the fort Walls, but I just felt like I couldn't leave in a weird way. It was like I'd grown up there.
(14:00):
I felt like I was kind of part of the fabric of Christie's. And when I was out of work for almost three months, just recovering from the accident, the department that I started for Christie's was restructured and kind of went into different departments. By the time I got back, I had talked to 'em about being an ambassador for the company, I guess earlier that year. But the reality was the job that I was going back to was not the job that I'd done for many years. And so it really became the perfect time for me to find that next step at Christie's, which was an ambassadorship, which just meant that I was taking Christie's Auctions as a charity auctioneer. I didn't have any full-time role, which was really what I'd wanted for a long time. And then over the year it was sort of a yearly contract.
(14:40):
And when I was about to sign the second year, it was just a part of me that didn't want to do it. I was like, what is the next step for me? I don't want to keep working with this company. I've been there forever. It's time for something fresh and new. And I'd had this idea for an agency simply because I knew that the talent that was on a lot of the stages that I was seeing from nights that I wasn't out there from feedback I was getting for friends was not that great. And that there was space and room for someone to come in and really find amazing auctioneers, make sure that those were the auctioneers on stage, and then train them. So if they didn't know what they were doing, they would know what they were doing. And then when they got on stage, people would have a great experience like you did at Casa that night. They would walk out and be like, that was so fun. That was incredible. And oh my God, I just donated a thousand dollars that I was not planning to donate tonight. That is the job of a charity auctioneer. It's to push and push and push, but also have people leaving feeling like they really have done something great that night.
Kim (15:33):
Two quick questions. So when you were an auctioneer at Christie's, were you only representing art or they have an auction system, they have an auction area that covers other things. Were you always doing art for 20 years?
Lydia (15:43):
No. For me it was really charity always. I've always loved Charity Auctioneering. And for me, the other thing that, and I say this now in retrospect, it's so funny to think about, but Christie's didn't really have a lot of women on the podium, especially when I started. I think there was maybe one or two, and they didn't ever take the big sales. So the big evening sales were always taken by men until 2020 when there was literally an edict that came down from the top that were like, it has to be 50 50 now. But up until that point, women, we didn't get the big sales. So because I had so much experience as a charity auctioneer, the stages for me in New York were getting bigger and bigger and bigger. 10 years ago I was on stage at Madison Square Garden in front of 7,000 people with Bruce Springsteen.
(16:27):
The comp for me at Christie's at that point was to be on stage in front of a half empty room taking a book sale. And by that point I had grown so big in my career as a charity auctioneer that I would sort of look at that and be like, I have no interest in doing that. I want to be able to fly around a stage with a wireless mic and goad people into bidding and an art auction. You're standing behind a podium and yes, it looks very prestigious, but it just seemed a little dull to me to be honest. And the fun part for me now is the car auctioneering is this hybrid of pulling it back and restraining a little bit like an art auctioneer, but also being able to talk to the crowd like a charity auctioneer. So I feel like I found my perfect sweet spot.
Kim (17:04):
So how long has the agency been in existence?
Lydia (17:07):
So I launched it in August of 2023.
Kim (17:10):
Wow. It's relatively
Lydia (17:11):
New. And within one year we'd made over a hundred million dollars for nonprofits.
Kim (17:17):
And then you went on your own how many years ago? What year? I know that's different than running the agency.
Lydia (17:22):
Well, I've always had a side business. So when I was at Christie's, so probably about 11 years into my charity auctioneering career, I was training the head of hr and he was a great auctioneer, and we kind of sat down and I just said to him, listen, it's gotten to the point now where we didn't get paid by Christie's to take the auctions. It was always a donation of our time, which I had a full-time job and it was a global job. I had my three children. There was a lot going on. I didn't have any more time to donate at that point, but I still continued to do it. And we were having a conversation and I just said, it's a little crazy that we can't get compensated outside if it's a nonprofit that has nothing to do with Christie's. Christie's takes these auctions because they are helping out a top client or this is a huge strategy play for us and we want to be in front of this particular audience.
(18:10):
So what about all the other nonprofits that don't tick those boxes? Because those people are reaching out to me too. I get off stage and I have five people with business cards asking if I will take their auction. And so he sort of said, well, yeah, I understand what you're saying. There is a bit of a gray area there and you seem to know which ones are Christie's related and which ones aren't. So you can charge your rate. You can just sort of make that up. And I did. So I started asking that first year, any nonprofit that would reach out and say, could you take this and say, well, I can't take it on behalf of Christie's because Christie's wouldn't support this as an organization, but I would be happy to take it on my own and this is my fee. And the first time I did it, I was like, they're going to just say no. And they were like, oh yeah, okay, fine. And it was like 10 seconds later I was sort of like, wait, what? So I had an entire book of business aside from the ones that I was still taking for Christie's.
Kim (18:59):
So it sounds like it's like you kind of had all this business, you just build the agency. What has been the hardest part about starting and running your own agency? It sounds like everything's going great, but have there been challenges? What have those been? I think the biggest challenge
Lydia (19:12):
Was the way that I really saw it happening was that I was going to do what I had done at Christie's. I would hold auditions, I would find new auctioneers, and that was the way it was going to work. But I had so many people reach out when I started the agency that it became really overwhelming. And I just was sort of like, I don't want to try out 300 people when I know 50 of them and have to tell them that I don't think that they would be right. That's just not who I am. I hate the whole tryout system. I hate disappointing people. I'm such an inspire of people. So for me to say to someone, I don't know that you have what it takes or I just don't want to train you. So that was really the biggest challenge for me dropping that part of the idea because I was like, this is going to be great.
(19:52):
And what I've realized instead is that I'm almost like a talent seeker because a lot of times when I'm out on stage, there will be an mc or there will be this amazing person who has a talent that I never thought of but is very closely adjacent to being a charity auctioneer. And so I talked to them. And so I have about six of my auctioneers are people that I trained at Christie's or worked for an auction house and had that training who I think are great and have a lot of charisma and are training or have been on stage forever and probably have their own books of business as well. The other six are people who I've identified as people that I wanted to represent, and that's been really exciting.
Kim (20:28):
So what happened to all those people who wanted you to try them out, and how did you handle that? Because I agree with you, I feel like it is awkward because the better you are at networking and the better you do, more people want you, but then you have to invariably disappoint people. It's like, how did you navigate that?
Lydia (20:42):
Well, I just sort of had a blanket email and I said, listen, the agency is really information at this point. I'm not entirely sure what this is going to look like, but I'd be happy to reach out. Please send me your reels. Please send me your videos. And people did, I mean, I got videos from South Africa. I mean, I was getting videos from everywhere and I was like, listen, you're amazing. But I don't have any clients in South Africa yet. And I think the other thing that's interesting about a talent agency is you have to be very careful about who you put your name behind obviously. But in addition to that, you want to make sure that your auctioneers are getting tons of clients in business because that's how they get better. I'm good at my job because I spend 70 nights on stage when I go months without taking an auction. It's like, yes, it's like riding a bike to an extent, but I'm much better seven or eight into a season than I am on the day one. True. Yeah. Yeah.
Kim (21:25):
Okay. So talk to me. You have a book called Claim Your Confidence. So as someone who's on stage all the time using your personality to make people donate more money, what are your top tips for people who are struggling with building that confidence?
Lydia (21:38):
Well, one of the things that people often think about when they go on stage is the minute they get up there, they're looking at the audience think to themselves like, everybody here hates me and they don't want to hear what I have to say and they think I'm boring. So I think so much of the work about public speaking goes before you get on stage and really thinking about what's happening when you're walking on that stage and being very aware of everything that is about to take place. There's a great story that I heard years ago about someone describing how much he hates public speaking. They asked this guy, why do you hate public speaking so much? He said, well, because every time before I get on stage, my palm starts sweating, my heart starts racing, I feel really sick. I feel like I'm getting my whole body's numb.
(22:18):
And he is just describing essentially an adrenaline rush. And then they interviewed someone else who, let's call it Bruce Springsteen, who's a very well-known performer, and they said, what do you like about being on stage? He's like, oh man, the rush before I get on stage. I love the adrenaline. I love and is describing the same thing. So I say to people, when you're thinking about public speaking, when you feel that adrenaline rush coming in, you want to think of it as energy you're about to bring to the room because Kim, just as well as I do, if you get on stage late at night and you are low energy that the crowd is going to either fall asleep or they're going to talk over you, same thing at eight o'clock in the morning. Don't be afraid to address the elephant in the room. It's eight o'clock in the morning.
(22:56):
I know you may not have had all your coffee, you may need to get another cup after this, but I promise you, I'm going to bring you the energy. I'm up here to do that for you. And so being very vocal with the crowd about the fact that you are going to bring the energy is another easy way to sort of slide into it and get everyone nodding and approval. I do that a lot at night. When I get on stage, it's 10 o'clock at night, I'm the last person on stage and I'll get on stage and say something like, good evening ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to be here as your auctioneer this evening. And I can tell just by looking at you that none of you feel the same way. You don't want me up here, it's fine, but you have to bring that energy that you want from the room. So again, when you're getting up there, wait for the adrenaline rush and know that it's the energy boost you need. And when you get on that stage, use that energy to really get the crowd on your side.
Kim (23:44):
And how do people break through imposter syndrome?
Lydia (23:48):
I mean, listen, I think it's one of those things you have to just understand you might have over the course of your career, everyone has felt that way. It doesn't get better by ignoring it. It doesn't get better by not going in the room. It gets better by putting yourself in situations where you feel a little uncomfortable and realizing half the time that it's just you that no one's thinking about you, no one's worrying about what you're doing. People are inherently selfish. And so if you walk into a room and you're like, everyone's wondering why I'm here, everyone's not going to like what I have to say. I often say, what you should be thinking is that person over there is thinking about what they're having for lunch. They're not even concerned with anything you're doing.
Kim (24:24):
I literally always say that. I'm like, that person's thinking about dinner. They do not care about you. I talk to a lot of people showing up on social media and we all think that everyone's judging us, but really we're thinking of Jane who is rude to us at the high school cafeteria. Well, Jane lives in Idaho and does not care about you, and she's really tired, so she's not thinking about you. But I think that that's exactly it. I always say they're thinking about dinner, they don't care about you, which is freeing.
Lydia (24:47):
Yeah, just put out what you want to put out and don't worry about what other people think.
Kim (24:51):
And then I would love, I know that in your book claim Your Confidence, you talk about the mindset tips, not just for stage, but I think what I love about this confidence piece is it's not just about public speaking, it's not just about showing up on social media, but building up your confidence is important for every aspect of life. What tips do you have for people to shift their mindset to be building that confidence?
Lydia (25:13):
Confidence comes from things that you are not sure you can do. Trying those things and then realizing that A, you could do it or B, you didn't do it, but you survived. So I would say to people who are trying to build their confidence, try things that you don't think you can do, the more you do it, the easier it becomes to try harder things. It's almost like a graph. If you think about when you try something that's really hard and you get this huge peak, you've tried this really difficult thing and it doesn't work out, you fall really far the first time, but the second time when you try something that's really difficult, you still get that peak, but the valley's much lower because you can recover a lot faster. And essentially what you want to do when it comes to confidence is get to the point where those bumps are barely, they're barely bumps in the road. You realize that it didn't work out the way you wanted or something didn't happen, but ultimately you don't care and you just move on. I'm sure Kimmy, you are there. That's where I am in my life. I'll try anything and if it doesn't work out, I'm just sort of like, oh, well, it just didn't work out. And even if it's embarrassing, make it a good story and tell everyone, it makes it sting a lot less.
Kim (26:17):
And I know you have, how many kids do you have?
Lydia (26:20):
Three.
Kim (26:21):
You have three kids. So I have two kids, and I don't know if you feel the same way, but I feel like being a parent and being a coach and you have, you're a mentor, you're a boss, and you're basically a human coach on stage at 70 nights a year, I do feel like there is this very valuable parallel. My kids will say, I can't do that, or I'm not good at that. Then I have these people that I'm coaching either one-on-one or in a group setting to show up on camera for social media to grow their business. Real estate agents, coaches, consultants, and they're struggling in the same way. They're like, I don't like being on camera. I look weird. I sound weird. I feel like I'm going to look silly. I think of being judged. And I realized that under both of it is discomfort.
(27:03):
But discomfort breeds growth. And you can't grow if you're not uncomfortable. And I've been there for so many things. I mean, God running my own business, I had brought on a business coach and I was like, stop showing me the numbers. Just do it for me. I hate it. I really hate it. But that discomfort is me putting myself in a new mode, which is business owner mode more than marketing expert mode, and it's uncomfortable new. And so I find myself saying kind of that same message to my kids, which is, yeah, it's hard at first. Everything's hard at first. Everything's hard for me at first too. And so I find that both as a parent and coaching other people is there's that really helpful parallel that those messages are kind of the same whether you're seven or 57, it's the same thing.
Lydia (27:43):
Yes, absolutely it is. I think that the other thing is that we always assume in this day and age, and especially if you are on social media, I try to say this all the time, things don't happen overnight for most of us. I did a post, I guess it was probably a couple months ago, I was taking this auction for name a celebrity that You've ever wanted to meet. And they were in the room that night. I mean, it was everyone from Selma Hayek to Nicole Kidman to Kim Kardashian to Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos. I mean, it was just the craziest room of 200 people. And I was at Gucci picking out an outfit to wear. That was part of it. And I remember posting something and I was like something along the lines of to all those people who say that it just happens. Good for you.
(28:30):
But that's not been my story. It's like after 20 years of hard work, I'm at a place where I know what I'm doing and I get opportunities like this. And I think about 20 years there are people who say to me, what, I wasn't even alive 20 years ago. I'm like, no, I know it's a long time. It's a really long time. You can be graduating from college. And the amount of time that I've been doing this, the beginning of your life to graduating from college has happened in the same amount of time. It has taken me to get to this point in my career. And that's really my expectation for everything. I have a podcast. I mean, you have a podcast and this people are always like, so are you going to sell your podcast? I mean, maybe. But also there are a lot of things that go between having a podcast and getting there. And I just say to people, if it doesn't happen now, it just means it needs more work. I'm just going to work harder and I'm going to keep chipping away. And at some point that will reveal itself, sort of skirting that time and time again is not the reality for most of us. So dig in, lean in, understand it's going to take time and enjoy the ride.
Kim (29:28):
I feel like you must have had some really funny incidents with celebrities at the charities. I didn't really think about the fact that obviously you must encounter a lot of celebrities at these charity events.
Lydia (29:37):
I do. Celebrities are people, period, end of sentence. And you realize that especially when you live in New York and there are celebrities in kids' schools and you run into people who are massive celebrities and then you're like, oh, you are exactly the same as I am. You're just a person that everybody else expects a lot more from you than they do from the average person. And when you get on stage, I think one thing that I've realized is that celebrities actually really enjoy being on stage with me. I know what I'm doing and then they don't have to do it, but I have other celebrities who people like Seth Meyers is one of them, and Matthew Reese is another guy who I take auctions with around this particular auction in Brooklyn every year, and it's really fun and it's very funny, and we've gotten to the point now, I think we've been doing it for four years.
(30:19):
And so it's basically some combination of us all taking pot shots at each other, but also Seth is doing jokes and I'm auctioneering and Matthew's kind of laughing and doing jokes as well, but it works. I mean, we make a lot of money every time, but again, just normal people, it's like having my brothers on stage at this point and I don't even know them that well, but they're that funny and that just kind of willing to go at me and I'm willing to do it for them. And so that makes it fun and you're just, again, just a normal person with a bigger job and a bigger platform.
Kim (30:47):
I went to that last year, so not this year, but the year before the Brooklyn Bridge Park Conservancy. It was really fun. It actually was really, really fun. And I think it was also fun because to your point, people in different situations, it just allows everybody to loosen up and lighten up and you're like, oh, Matthew Reese actually a regular real person. Cool. Okay. Seth Meyers off of his TV show set. So fun and loose and I mean, he's funny on TV obviously also, but yeah. Awesome. Okay, now I have to ask you, because Lydia gave these incredible negotiating tips at Fast Company and everybody was scribbling things down. So I'd love Lydia for you to give our listeners your top tips for going into a negotiation.
Lydia (31:27):
Yeah, absolutely. So always going back to the mindset piece, for me it's such a huge part of anything because I feel like so many people walk into negotiations and they don't think about it until they get there. So there should be a complete pre-negotiations strategy for you before you walk in. First and foremost, you have to take the emotion out of negotiation. So you walk into a negotiation, you are having a conversation with someone, you are not trying to take points off of someone. You're not trying to be combative. That is the stuff that's going to make you act like someone other than yourself. So when you walk into a negotiation, think to yourself, okay, I'm having a conversation and I want the outcome to look like X, but that does not mean that I have to turn into the Hulk or some crazy aggressive person.
(32:08):
That is not what it means. Just spend some time centering yourself because frankly, the person who is the calmest in a negotiation nine times out of 10 will walk out with what they want. Before you walk into that negotiation, set your low, medium, and high meaning you have sat down and thought about what it is that will make you high five your best friend, jumping, screaming up in the air. That is your high. That is obviously what you want to aim for. Realistically, are you going to get it? Not unless you're sitting across the table from someone who's never negotiated before. Your medium is likely what the outcome will be, and the low is the point at which you need to make sure you do not go below it. Again, when you get into that situation, if things aren't going well, you might start unloading things that you didn't mean to, and then you walk out and you're like, oh God, why did I do that?
(32:55):
So low, medium, high, very important and equally important is the pre-negotiations before the negotiation. Walking in with a million different ideas about how things could work is the best way to walk into a negotiation. Walking into a negotiation with one idea and one idea for an outcome is the easiest way to be disappointed and frankly lose it. So gather anyone who might have a different opinion about what this could look like for you beforehand and have them bounce ideas and questions off of you. It's a really good way to get a different understanding of how someone might see what you're doing When you walk into the negotiation, always be willing to think about things in a way to open the pie, so additional things you can add in and give away. It's always nice for someone to feel like they're winning. So if you walk in knowing there are a couple of things that you don't really care about that you can toss in pretty quickly, always a great idea.
(33:46):
And then it kind of takes me to one of my favorite phrases when it comes to negotiation, there's more than one way to get to London from Paris, meaning there are many different ways to get to the outcome that you want. Some of that might be giving some things away. Some of these might be taking something that you didn't think you were going to get, but don't be so obtuse that you walk in and think there's only one way to do this, and if it isn't done like this, I'm going to walk. It's not the way to win a negotiation. The best way to do it is to expand the pie and find some additional things. And then finally, I would say remember to front foot the follow-up, meaning you need to take the lead on coming back with everything you guys have discussed. So when you shake someone's hand, when you walk out of the door, I like to say, the next thing you do is pick up your iPhone and start making notes about everything you guys have discussed in addition to having them written in the room.
(34:35):
Get that information over as soon as possible and get that into contract stage immediately because that is the easiest way for a negotiation to fall apart. It's like for me, when I get off stage as the auctioneer, a lot of times if I have not made sure that the person is going to get the item that night or they haven't signed a form to say that they're going to get it and they've paid five x what they thought they were going to pay, you better believe the next day when someone calls to follow up, they'll be like, well, I don't know. Do I really want to do it? So make sure that you front foot the follow up, take ownership of the process, and that way the negotiation will have the outcome you want.
Kim (35:08):
I love this. I think that those negotiation tips are so applicable to so many situations, and I run my own business, so I'm learning everything as I go. I generally do not love sales. I'm very extroverted. I'm probably better at sales than most people. I like to talk to people, but things like what you just said about having the pie expanded, be open to different situations, I feel like that dovetails with other advice I'd heard in the past about sales is like the better listener you are, the better your business will grow. I've had insane year this year, and I feel like I just truly will be like, what do you need? What are you struggling with? It's not like, this is my package and this is my group class. It's like, how can I support you? And truly that is what I mean. But sometimes we think it's like, here's my product, buy this thing, and it's not really that.
(35:52):
And it's really about if you're asking really good questions. And one thing I remembered you saying at your workshop as I took notes, one thing I remember you saying is the idea of whoever's in the room getting information from them. So whether it's an assistant or the person or their colleague, it's like what's important to them? Because sometimes we think we're mind readers, so what's important to us, we only know our own brain, but we actually don't know what's important to the other person until we ask, until we get information. So that helps fill up the pie that helps us see other situations, and I think we're all, I especially, we're all still working on the take the emotion out of negotiation. I think that's something that everybody in every workplace, in every sales situation, in every negotiation, I think people are always working on that because we are humans. We do have emotions, and I think that really the best people have successfully taken emotions out of it, but I think a lot of other people are still working on that.
Lydia (36:40):
Yeah, I think when I say take the emotion out of negotiation, I also mean more along the lines of people walk into a negotiation and they're like, oh, that person's going to hate me. Totally, totally. Yes. That person doesn't hate, that person doesn't know you just walked in the room five seconds ago. How can they hate you? It also is interesting because a lot of times you'll hear people say all these things about themselves, and I always think to myself, why are you telling me this? Just keep that stuff to yourself. I don't need to know that you feel that way about yourself. If you tell me, I'll believe you, if you say you're a bad public speaker, if you say you're bad at this, or I'll believe everything you say because you're your best salesperson. So choose very wisely how you choose to describe yourself and don't ever underestimate how important the words you are, the words that you use about yourself are to other
Kim (37:24):
People for negotiation or confidence or everything
Lydia (37:28):
For everything,
Kim (37:29):
Right? I agree. You are what you define yourself as If you say, I am this bad, I'm bad at X or I'm bad at Y. Well, you could say in October of 2024, I'm bad at X, but in February I'm going to be amazing at it. So it's like we get to continue to evolve. This has been a fantastic chat. Where can people find you and where can they connect with you?
Lydia (37:49):
Well, I have a variety of different ways really. Instagram is where I spend most of my time, so if you want to find me, that's usually where I am. But I'm also on LinkedIn. Lydia Fenet is my same tag for everything. And then I have a website, lydiafenet.com for auctioneering or speaking or anything like that.
Kim (38:06):
Awesome. Anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to share? I know you have an event in January.
Lydia (38:11):
I do. I would love to tell everyone a little bit about the retreat that I'm hosting in January. So I will be hosting a retreat for the second year called the Claim Your Confidence Retreat. It's really a four day, three night retreat at Suzuki Bun House out in the Hamptons, which is the most beautiful property and a place for you to go if you want to set your intentions for the year and really set your year off. I find January for most people is the worst month. You've come off the holiday season and everyone's feeling kind of gross and they haven't really thought about what they want to do in January, and everyone's like My New Year's resolution, and then it's gone. So this gives you another two weeks, and then you can come in and we really talk about confidence. And so I have an amazing artist named Kate Shelter who's going to come and do a watercolor class. One afternoon, a woman named Sarah Rag is going to talk to you about holistic wellness and making sure that your diet is lining up with basically the confidence that you're going to be building on the inside while we're there. But everything's really to just kickstart your year, and we had an amazing time last year, so I'm really looking forward to it this year.
Kim (39:06):
Fantastic. Oh, I forgot to ask you one question. I did want to ask you, what does work life balance look like to you? You're running this agency, you have three kids. What does work-life balance look like?
Lydia (39:15):
It's interesting. I try to think of work as a series of sprints and plateaus because my work is so cyclical. I'm very, very busy during the fall and the spring, not super busy in the winter and not at all during the holiday season. So during the times when I'm not super busy, I really try to take that time off to do things with my kids, to travel to make sure that I am a hundred percent there for them, picking them up from school, picking 'em up from camp at a time that when I'm on the road and traveling like crazy, which I will be the first two weeks of November, I won't be able to be as present for that. So instead of looking at it as like work-life balance where everything lines up, I look at it as a series of sprints and plateaus.
(39:55):
I'll say to the kids, I'm heading into a sprint for the next couple of weeks, which means I'll be heading out of the door at 8:00 PM to get on stage pretty much every single night for the next couple of weeks, I'll be on planes a lot, but then when I come back, it's Thanksgiving, we'll all be together. We're going to have plenty of time to do all the things that we want to do. And during those times, during those sprint times, I say to people, this is not a time when I can meet you for coffee. I'm not going to grab dinner with you. I'm not going to get breakfast with you. This is the time for me to be with my family or to focus on myself so that I can be on stage and be feeling great. A hundred percent present with a lot of energy during those plateau times.
(40:29):
That's when I am like 30 coffees deep over the course of a day, far too many tons of informational interviews, doing 15 minute calls on Zoom. That's the time that I spend doing things for other people. And in that cycle, I say too, especially for those who are working moms out there, I love to ask for help, but I also love to offer help when I am not in a busy place. So when I'm in a plateau, I'm reaching out to people who've offered to take my kids, to pick them up, to do that for them so that I'm not always asking for things, and that makes me feel like I can really succeed.
Kim (41:02):
Kids really thrive on that communication, so when they understand two weeks are busy and then I'm home, it's like that's how it goes, and that's what they get used to. And kids, whatever they're used to is what they get. Actually now, I have a lot more flexibility because I work for myself. My kids don't remember that I was on a plane going to LA for Netflix once a month in addition to filming, going to film shoots all over the country. They don't remember that because that was like four years ago, five years ago. So Nate will be like, oh, no, you're going to dinner tonight. I'm like, you literally have no memory of me being gone for an entire week a month. And so now me being gone for dinner one night is not a big deal, but the communication piece of, yeah, I am going to dinner and I'll be see you in the morning. But they get used to whatever they have, and I think that the communication piece is really important.
Lydia (41:47):
And I think when it comes to work, it's such a great example to set for our kids to show them that we are living the life that we want. I think it's important that it's not always about them because that breeds a child that is only focused on themselves. And I love the fact that my daughters are very entrepreneurial because they see me doing things and they want to be part of it, and I include them. I bring them on trips with me. I include them in business discussions, and it's exciting for them, and they're always talking about how they're going to start this and start that, and that makes me really happy. I want them to be entrepreneurs. I think it's a great life.
Kim (42:19):
I love that. I heard my daughter telling my son, like, mommy, she's a business owner and she has a podcast every week and she walks us to school every day, but she wasn't saying that for my benefit. She actually was talking to her brother. I was like, okay, she sees this, she hears this, she feels it. And yeah, sometimes it's busy and sometimes it's not. But that's okay. I agree with you. We're forming them. They're seeing what we're doing. It's not always perfect, but it's thoughtful and intentional.
Lydia (42:45):
Absolutely. Lydia, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, Kim.
Kim (42:53):
Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to exit the grind and enter success on your own terms. This is the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to grab my free download, how to Grow Your Business with Amazing video at kimrittberg.com and linked out in the show notes. I love to hear your feedback. Make sure to submit to me what you learned from the show and how you are crushing it on your own terms. Connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G. And this show is edited by Jillian Grover and produced by Henry Street Media. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rittberg.