EP. 18 / From Totally Broke to Boutique Agency CEO with Shannon McKinstrie PLUS Social Media Growth Tips to Increase Engagement and Grow Your Brand
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Do you hate the feeling of dropping your kids off at daycare? Does it kill you to leave them just to go off to a job that doesn’t fulfill you or make you happy anymore? Have you ever dreamt of a job that would let you work less hours AND stay home with your kids? PLUS want top tips for growing your brand on social from an expert who grew her business from the ground up?
When Shannon McKinstrie decided to quit the corporate world and start her social media business, she was $15,000 in medical debt and could barely afford to keep her infant daughter in diapers—but once she made the switch to work for herself, she knew she’d never go back.
Learn how Shannon started out working for just $200 a month—with her daughter in the backseat!—and how she realized that her work was worth so much more than that. Shannon also talks about the different facets of her business and how she’s been able to use those streams to create a huge amount of passive income.
PLUS hear Shannon’s top social media tips for business owners, including how to make a sale today on social, why you need to put yourself on camera to grow your business and the ideal social media content calendar.
LISTEN BELOW! And don’t forget to ‘follow’ and leave a rating & review!
Show Takeaways
In this conversation with Shannon you’ll hear:
How her daughter was the catalyst for taking her huge career leap
Why authenticity is so incredibly important when creating social media content
That your IG bio is your billboard—use it to your advantage!
You don’t have to like selling to be a great salesperson, but you do have to be a salesperson to grow your brand.
Don’t be afraid to repurpose your content. It just might save your sanity!
Takeaways from our guests:
Shannon on knowing she had made the right choice in working for herself:
“My business just quadrupled and it went bananas. That's when I was able to be like, ‘Alright, I'm at capacity, so these are my prices now.’ And my business just went bonkers. It was just crazy. I look back like, ‘Whoa, what a ride!’”
Shannon on what she would have done differently in the beginning:
“Invest in myself. At least get a free mentor. I did grow my social media management agency to six figures with no help—and that's pretty crazy. But it took me four years to do that. And I would've set myself up to make sure people know that I am a CEO. I'm not your admin.”
Shannon on how the Instagram as we know it is changing because the audience craves authenticity:
“We are overwhelmed. So we like something we can attach to, period. We want something we can attach to. More and more brands are going away from big time influencers and hiring people with 2,000 followers who are relatable because we are over the BS. We don't believe anybody. [Our] guard is up.”
Use Instagram Stories to sell your brand or build your newsletter
Instead of using a link, personalize your engagement!
The question sticker can be great to grab follower emails
Instruct followers to “DM for tips”
Use the slider sticker to directly engage with followers who swipe
Looking for more tips and advice for growing your brand? Check out my blog post!
How to Use Social Media to Sell Services or Products
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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim Rittberg (00:01):
She couldn't afford diapers, so she started her own social media business. I was determined because I was, I was desperate. I mean, I did grow my social media management agency to six figures with no help. And that's pretty crazy. It is crazy. Shannon McKinstrie is here and she's gonna give you insider secrets, hot tips on how to create your social media strategy, how to create relatable content that hits your goals on Instagram, LinkedIn. And she has an amazing piece of advice on how to make a sale today on social media. I took notes and you will too, but you don't really need it cuz we have an awesome newsletter.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
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Kim Rittberg (00:41):
Your lanyard and swipe card at the door. Welcome to Mom's Exit Interview, a podcast for moms seeking fulfillment and contentment outside the traditional nine to five. Whether you're considering taking the leap or you're already mid-air, this podcast is for you. You'll meet moms for consultants, entrepreneurs stay at home moms and side hustles and part-time workers across various industries and levels. Plus every episode will have experts with tips so you can turn your inspiration into action. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a Netflix executive and former head of video at US Weekly and I'm a mom of two. I quit the corporate world and I've never looked back, but I'm still on this journey. So join me. We don't need a boss to give us permission or a promotion to lead the lives we want.
Kim Rittberg (01:35):
If you haven't, please drop a five star rating and review for the show. Follow it and share it with your friends. That helps it get to more people. Also, I've been spending my time writing up the tips from every single episode. We have an amazing newsletter, so make sure to sign up for that. That's in the show notes. Lastly, if you like this podcast or love this podcast, obsessed with this podcast, or maybe you like my Instagram where I post really nice social media assets for it. Anyway, my day job is doing stuff like that. Yeah, Creating high quality video and podcasts for businesses and professionals to grow their client base, grow their revenue. If that's something you're interested in, click on kimrittberg.com where you could click right here in the show notes and drop me a note and we can chat. They saying necessity is the mother of invention, right?
Kim Rittberg (02:20):
Well, Shannon McKinstrie needed money for diapers, so she started her own social media business. You are going to hear Shannon's truly amazing story and something that came up in the chat and I think is so relatable to so many of us is believing in ourselves. I know for myself, I didn't really think I had a business until I actually had a few clients and it took me a really long time to say I run my own company. While I knew I had the skills, I never questioned that I had led a big team, I created high quality video content, developed new ideas for brands, trained people to be on camera. But when it came time to own that, it really took a different mindset for me to say, No, I can do this. I am the head of this. I can find clients, I can make them happy.
Kim Rittberg (03:06):
Sitting also with any successes and achievements I had had saying, Kim, pause, You should pat yourself on the back for this. You did a good job. That's something I struggle with and I really love that aspect. Um, of Shannon's story and we get into that a little bit more. You're gonna hear her amazing story. There's only like a little bit of therapy in this <laugh>. I think Shannon at what point was about to cry, like happy tears, good tears, and my arms were completely full of goosebumps by the end of this. So it is a great story and you're gonna love hearing from her. Shannon McKinstrie is a mom of two based in Raleigh, North Carolina. Her kids are eight and one and a half. She tried to count her baby's age in months, but my kids are older so I wasn't gonna indulge that. At the beginning of Shannon's career, she worked at CNN and graphics and in the control room. Then she shifted into sales and marketing and we jumped right into her exit.
Shannon McKinstrie (04:00):
So I had a very traumatic birth with my eight year old daughter. Um, I actually really liked my nine to five, but I say that now looking back, going like I was miserable. But after the birth of my daughter, which left me in icu, we were separated for days. It was very scary. Uh, basically I almost died <laugh> then. Uh, luckily nurses praised for them, uh, figured out what was going wrong and saved my life. But I was in IC for many days and I was in the hospital for about a week. And then when we got home I just dealt with the depression from it all and the postpartum was off the rails. Not in a way that I, you know, just overall just anxiety. It was just bad. So came the time to try to find a caretaker for her cuz I'm a procrastinator with those things.
Shannon McKinstrie (04:47):
And just the thought of leaving her just sent me and I couldn't do it. And I remember going into my office to have everyone meet Cam, she was about six weeks old and um, and you know, getting crap maternity leave as they as we do. And I went to the boss and I just said, Look, I don't know if I can do it. Is there any way I can keep my job at work from home with her? And he was like, Unfortunately, unless you shows you have a full-time nanny at home, we can't do that. And I said, No, I wanna take care of her. Like something switched to me completely. Now we were living paychecks to paycheck even with my job at the time and in a tiny little apartment. And my husband was like, he, but he could see it in my face.
Shannon McKinstrie (05:26):
Like I just, I was gonna have a breakdown if I had to leave her. So I went to him, I said, Look, if I can make, if I can get some people to pay me to do their Facebooks, you know, <laugh> the Facebooks, can I, can I stay home? And he goes, Yeah, if you can make like maybe a thousand if you can get to, you know, and I was able to do it and cuz you know, daycare, hello. So he was like, Look, if you can at least get somebody to help us pay for rent, like half of our rent, let's see, we'll give it a few months. But I mean, I could tell he was terrified, but he hid that for me, which he's a Satan for that I was determined because I was, I was desperate and I found some people to let me manage their Instagram, Facebook, et cetera.
Shannon McKinstrie (06:08):
And the rest is history. I guess. <laugh>, we got $15,000 in medical bills. We still we're the type of couple. We love to go out to dinner we love, you know, but like we were struggling as far as, we weren't saving a dime, we weren't able to um, you know, we really were like, okay, we need diapers, we need this, we need that. So you have this mountain of Bills, mountain of medical debt. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you, did you, did it make you think, Oh, maybe I should go back to a full-time job because at least it's stable? Not really. It like wasn't even an option. I just, I just knew I had to find people that would pay me money <laugh> so that I didn't have to. But no, there were definitely nights where Ryan was like, You have to, you have to go get another job.
Shannon McKinstrie (06:51):
You've gotta get this, you gotta do that. Um, I even toy with the idea of like working at a bar at night. Like that's how desperate I was to stay home, you know, with her. Shannon was desperate and knew she had to make it work, so she did whatever it took. I would go in the DC and take pictures. I, I mean candle would be in the back seat in her car seat sleeping. And I would go into the DC hop out, grab a picture of a pretty row house, hop back in, go grab a, I mean it was crazy. I look back like, what the heck were you doing? And I was charging 200 a month. Like I wouldn't even get in my car for that <laugh> like, it's crazy. But I was desperate. And honestly at the time people didn't respect social media managers at all.
Shannon McKinstrie (07:31):
I think it's still an uphill battle. And I really focused mainly on real estate agents in DC And once I earn all the realtors trusts and started doing, you know, helping so many of them, that's when they started telling their hair salon about me. They started telling so and so about me. And then a title company heard of me through I think a realtor or family on LinkedIn. They hired me for what then to me was insane amount of money and I couldn't believe it. And so that way I now was making almost as much as I was making at my old job or about the same. And I was like, this, this is, wait, this is gonna be really lucrative. And they are honestly the ones who helped me see my potential. I never got it. They were like, Shannon, do you understand you are this little shiny carrot that we can dangle <laugh> to grab more business for them as a title company Cuz they knew I helped realtors.
Kim Rittberg (08:26):
Basically the title company paid Shannon to do social media workshops. These workshops would bring in realtors, which benefits the title company. It was genius. And then like I was, I was like, my business just quadruple and it went bananas. And that's when I was able to be like, all right, well I'm at capacity, so these are my prices now. And then I started working with people beyond real estate and that, and that was fun. And um, I again just started showing up consistently and just kind of taking everyone behind the scenes of what my day looks like, why I love social media. And my business just went bonkers. It was, it was just crazy. Like I <laugh>, I don't even know the moment it shifted, but I look back like, whoa, what a ride. What does that, what are the different revenue streams you have for your business?
Shannon McKinstrie (09:13):
Okay, so management is the one we've been talking most about, right? That's where we as we're like a little mini agency <laugh>. So we take over the accounts, we do all the content for them. Second is consulting. I have, um, you know, I have everything from three week, I'm sorry, three month programs to one on one hour sessions. Just one off sessions, things like that where you can kind of pick my brain. Uh, and then the third is, okay, wo brain. Hello. Um, God sorry. Okay. The third is where I mentor people who want to be social media managers. Most are already social media managers. They're just stuck. Like I was like, I, I hate my clients. I'm not making enough money. No one respects me, blah, blah, blah. That sort of thing. And so classes are those are those group classes? Yes. Yes. So I have a course and community and then I also, people can, you know, do a three month mentoring program with me if they want.
Shannon McKinstrie (10:06):
Uh, but most take my course and cause it's like a continued membership with it. And then the fourth thing is separate, I guess for my business it's, but it's a membership. I run with a business partner and that's, you know, that's the fourth, uh, stream of income. So it's been, it's been unreal to be honest. <laugh>. It's just like, that's crazy. I never would've made, um, the salary that the salary in corporate ever. Shannon, how many hours do you work a day or a week? Uh, I'd say three to four max a day. You work that's, I work. You work four hours a day mm-hmm. <affirmative> and make much more than you made in corporate. Like four times, six times. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But I will say this probably cuz I put in a ton of hours back in the day. But now I've got my course, I've got my membership, I've got passive income out the wazo.
Shannon McKinstrie (10:56):
But also I only allow my schedule, I only, my daughter, she's napping right now, Right? That during that two and a half hours, that's when I do calls. And then I usually work a little bit in the, in the morning for like an hour while she's playing. And then I'll do maybe an hour at night. So maybe that adds up closer to five. But still it's not, it's like I do a couple hours of real work. When you were building your company, how many hours a week were you working? Um, I was probably doing about eight hours a day, probably like old school. Um, but again, my daughter, she was home. So again, it was like two hours in the morning, two hours in the afternoon and two hours a night. So you never had childcare. You always built this about childcare. You were always built your kids and did it and, and fit the work in when you could fit it in.
Shannon McKinstrie (11:41):
You had that company that validated and sent you. Yes. Not only are you good, you're undercharging. Yes. And it's so nice to, to have like, you know, a supportive client like that who's hey gonna give you you that other additional money <laugh> but beat you a lesson. Really raising the bar for yourself cuz then they lifted the floor. Cause now, now that you weren't charging 200 a month, you were probably charging a minimum of 400 a month or whatever, you know? Right. Yep. Well, and the other thing too, I think what comes down to it all, and while I'm a why I'm able to only work four hours a day and I barely work Fridays. I like, I'll like open slack, I'll, I'll do some admin stuff in the morning. It's because I have the greatest clients and I like, they respect my batteries. They don't, they also as a social media manager, right? They um, they give, they give, they give, they know that I want them to succeed. But that I can't make stuff up. I can't take a picture of a tree and put it up on Instagram and call it content.
Kim Rittberg:
Uh, what would you do differently? Ooh.
Shannon McKinstrie (12:43):
Ooh. <laugh> one is invest in myself. Holy bananas. Now I had, like I said, we had no money to invest in myself. I I, we had, we had to pay, we had to get diapers. So, um, at least get a free mentor. Someone maybe in a fellow entrepreneur. There's probably people out there that don't charge, that will just kind of allow you to, you know, get a pep talk or two <laugh>. I mean, I did grow my social media management agency to six figures with no help. And that's pretty crazy. But like you said, it took me four years to do that. Like, that's silly. So I would've invested a lot sooner. And, um, I just, I would've, I would've, I would've set myself up to make sure people know that I am a ceo. I'm not your admin. Those are the biggest things I would've, I would've changed.
Shannon McKinstrie (13:30):
Yeah. Cause I was treated like an admin.
Kim Rittberg:
Are you happy?
Shannon McKinstrie:
Yes, I really am. And honestly, I've like almost cried 18 times during this interview and it's like, it's almost like I needed this talk. Cuz sometimes you don't realize what's happening in front of you and you don't realize like you're actually right where you wanted to be a while ago. So like, recognize that and celebrate that and honor that. Um, I'm very, very happy. And the fact that, you know, my girls are watching, right? Like that makes me really, really happy that they see that, uh, all the hard work that maybe there were days that Cam noticed like mommy's really, you know, not having a good day. But like, we don't have those days anymore. We, we really don't. Um, yesterday I took the whole day off and we went to the pool and we went to the playground and we went to this new shopping area that just opened that I wanted to check out.
Shannon McKinstrie (14:25):
And it was just me and my girls, you know, And it was, it was beautiful. Of course, again, not fully present, but <laugh> more present that I normally am. And yesterday was one of those good days where I was like, Gosh, this feels really good. And like the, the big challenges are kind of past us. You just gave me goosebumps. That makes me happy. I'm like, that's so nice. I know I'm go like curl on a ball and cry after this. Like, oh, sometimes it is important. Like, um, I have a therapist of course. Cause otherwise I would not be as happy and I certainly wouldn't be making this podcast. Um, but I have, you know, I I really, I'm someone who's very hard on myself. I'm a total optimist, but I'm like driven. And sometimes being driven is good as you care. And a lot of us were ambitious and we wanna be fulfilled.
Shannon McKinstrie (15:14):
But then there's that point where you need to stop. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you need to pat yourself on the back and be like, Oh my God, I'm doing this thing. I said I'm doing like, I'm like, oh, I have a business. Like actually, like I have a business and like last year I want an award and like I'm, people are hiring me for my brain and not for me to sit in a seat and have FaceTime in an office when I really wanna be home eating dinner with my kids. Like, yeah, oh my God, I'm doing this thing, I'm doing it. It's happening. So it's crazy
Kim Rittberg:
I thought, I love that you, that you said the importance of like stopping and like taking a look around and saying yes. Yeah. Yeah. So cool. And of course I had to get some tips from Shannon. She's gonna tell you how to create your social strategy, how to create relatable content that hits your goals.
We cover Instagram, LinkedIn, and she has one awesome tip on how to make a sale today on Instagram. So Shannon, you are a social media expert and beyond. Can you give me the top three tips for business owners?
Shannon McKinstrie:
Yes. I would say number one, have a goal. Because again, there's, you'll get wrapped up in all the tips out there. You got it. Whose goal is it? Right? Everyone's like, Oh, well that person's growing faster. I was like, well, was your goal to get a bunch of followers or was it to sell more? What was it? Right? So know your goal and like write it down and always have it nearby so that you're never let down. Right? Um, I mean you'll be let down from here and there. Cause sometimes Instagram just does what it wants to do, but um, have a goal in mind.
Shannon McKinstrie (16:44):
And if you do want a million followers, cool, whatever, then that's your goal. But like, why do you want a million followers? Why <laugh> for what? Um, there's a lot of people trust me that have huge followers and can't sell a dime of stuff. So just with that said, I know people who literally have a thousand followers and sell more than people with 10,000 promise you. So have a goal in mind. Um, then from that goal, create a strategy around it. Ask yourself, how much time do I have to devote? Do I like video? Do I like design? You can grow without doing one real ever in your life. You can, it will be slower, just like we were saying it might. Okay, you don't have to invest, but you're gonna grow slower, right? But like, you don't have to. I know a lot of people that literally almost only post care cells and still do very well focus on the quality.
Shannon McKinstrie (17:34):
So number one, a goal number two, figure out how much time you can devote to it. If you have 30 minutes a day, awesome, mark that. If it's from 8:00 AM to eight 30 or 8:00 PM you know, I call it my jeopardy hour. <laugh> usually from like seven 30 to eight, I'm going through dms as frantically as I can and I'm like, I gotta the phone down. Um, so choose app. And with that second tip there, choose how many times a week you wanna post. I post three to four times a week. I usually do Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, or I do Monday, Tuesday, Thursdays. Pick those days and create a calendar cuz it's gonna save you a lot of time. If you wanna post daily, do it. But again, ask yourself, how much time do I have? And there you go. Third tip, interview your clients, interview your past clients and customers.
Shannon McKinstrie (18:22):
And I mean, do like this a zoom, Why did you buy for me? Why did you tell someone about me? What were you actually buying? Why did you buy this? That that's your content. That's literally your content. Because once you know their pain points, I know a lot of time when I was selling my course, for instance, I was talking about it completely the other the wrong way. And then I started interviewing all the people that bought the course and I was like, that's why you bought my course. Oh, what were they saying? So you're saying the client's pain points create the language that you need to speak. So if a client is like, um, I don't know how to sell these shoes or whatever, um, I don't know how to sell these shoes and I hired you so that you could help, blah. So then you're taking that content and answering those questions in social media form.
Shannon McKinstrie (19:09):
Exactly. Exactly. And you can create relatable content from it, which is huge, right? So if you know, so for instance, I'll tell you one of the girls that I interviewed was like, Oh, I had hit a ceiling in my business. And I was like, Oh, like I didn't, you know, I didn't realize, um, that was a big pain point for a lot of people that purchased my course cuz they felt like they were, they didn't know where to go from here. When I thought it was like, Oh, let's establish boundaries, let's do this, let's clean up systems. They were like, I am Max and I don't know what to do. So I was like, my gosh. Like I didn't even realize that my course solved that problem. Um, so I now write relatable content, My emails, everything was around like feeling stuck, right? Feeling whatever.
Shannon McKinstrie (19:53):
Where I more so is like they're feeling annoyed and frustrated with their clients or they're this or they're that. But it's like a lot of them are feeling just stuck and that they hit a ceiling. So now I use that word. Do you feel like you've had had a ceiling, a ceiling of growth? Like you're at a thousand followers or you're at x clients and you can't find more, You don't know where the next three clients are coming from, that sort. Exactly. Like, you're just, you're stuck. You're just like, I, I can't new move the needle. It's just so very interesting, right? So then I was like, okay, well I can create a lot of content around that. So interview your people. Really. And I love, there's a girl named Caitlin, I can't think of her name right now. She's genius marketer. And she tells a story about, you know, when she was, she wouldn't out and bought like one of those clunky big alarm clocks that we used to have back in the day because she was finding she would miss her alarm cuz you know, she would just lean over and tap snooze on her iPhone.
Shannon McKinstrie (20:43):
And then she wasn't getting up in time for her workouts and you know, not getting out and going on a run. So she got one of those big clunky alarm clocks that you can't ignore and put on the other side of the room. And when she was researching 'em, she was reading the reviews, she was reading the copy that these alarm clocks were saying. She's like, They're not getting to my pain point. Her pain point was, I need to get out of bed and go get my life together. Get, you know, she was buying accountability, right? She's not buying an alarm clock for oh, it's brighter than others. Or, oh, it's this like, she's like, they weren't getting so fi she's like, if the alarm clock company had asked me, she's like, they probably would've answered my pain point in their copy. So just interview your people, it's eye opening.
Shannon McKinstrie (21:23):
And then from that make relatable, funny content, educational content, that little bite size tips. You don't have to give them, you know, a whole masterclass in your content. And then, um, behind the scenes, right? So those the goal, have a goal. Know how much time interview your people and create content around that. And the, if I can do a bonus one Yeah. Be behind the scenes. The more th merrier. Yeah. <laugh> behind the scenes content to me is everything always has been, You could look at my Instagram from seven years ago and you'll see me stressing behind the scenes. Authenticity, authenticity, authenticity. Let people, we have no idea what each other do in a day. We have no flip and clue. So when you take people behind the scenes, even if you sell a product, show yourself putting the products in a box and mailing it.
Shannon McKinstrie (22:09):
Right? If you are an event show, how much work goes into putting a tablescape out? Like we have no clue. We're fascinated. So, um, that's another thing that has always sold my products and services is just, I just take people behind the scenes and stories I lean on. I I would not have a business without Instagram stories. Period. So, And you feel like, so I think a lot of business owners, and I feel like sometimes I was feeling worried about this and then I just took off the bandaid and said, who cares? A lot of people feel like behind the scenes of like me walking to a meeting and behind the scenes of like me typing on my computer, who cares? Right? Why? Like how do you think about, how do you think about behind the scenes? How do you get people to take off the bandaid and really start showing more behind the scenes?
Shannon McKinstrie (22:47):
I think a lot of people struggle with that. They feel their life's not interesting. Yes. So everyone's life is interesting. I I mean your target hall is interesting what you got at Trader Joe's. I mean especially right now, depending on when this goes out, but like fall, they wanna see if you like pumpkin spice or if you hate it, right? They wanna see Instagram stories on, Do you like pumpkin latte or regular latte? I did, I just said that. But like, like why people would be like, you know, someone might say though I'm a service provider or I sell a product. Like who cares that I'm going to get a coffee? Your answer is mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we are overwhelmed. So we like something we can attach to period. We want something we can attach to. And let me tell you, this is so fascinating to me.
Shannon McKinstrie (23:26):
More and more brands are going away from big time influencers and hiring people with like 2000 followers who are relatable because we are, we are over the bs. We don't believe anybody. We are like, guard is up. So if you ares listening, you're an influencer of some sort, like don't you do, People are gonna look at you more like, ooh, she only has 2000. Not only cuz 2000 is huge, but they're gonna look and be like, Oh she's, people are gonna believe her because she, they know she's not faking. You know? And so anyway, it's very, very fascinating to see how the influencer world is shifting and how brands are working with more. Um, and it's actually very interesting. I saw a whole, cuz I geek out with this stuff, um, thing on TikTok about the Kardashians and how the Kardashians are struggling on TikTok because it's not relatable and we want raw authenticity, right?
Shannon McKinstrie (24:20):
Even more so Instagram is still that aesthetically pleasing, but it's still, we want the real stuff. So, okay, so I have a couple of questions. By the way, I'm loving this conversation. I'm gonna say I follow you on Instagram. I love your content. I love what you post. I also like that I see it and I realize you actually could just shoot seven seconds of something that's like sort of nice to watch. Put a bunch of texts on it. Like, I feel like I came from, where I came from the beginning of my career is news. You know, you worked in news. If it bleeds, it leads. If you see a fire, start with the fire. And so the idea of social media, it's like, oh, you need footage that's so compelling. You don't really always need footage that's so compelling. You need like a catchy message, a catchy headline motion.
Kim Rittberg (25:02):
So I think that that was something that really like, released me a little bit. Cause my, the company, the content I make for companies is like gorgeous and polished and shot studio with like three cameras and lights and actors mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But like on social media, I just let it all hang out. And I think that that has released me. And I like, when I follow you, it makes me realize not every single thing has to be like, so like perfectly lit. And, and you know, I think that that, so anyway, that that, that is what I wanted to say about that. I did have a couple of questions too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, relatable, relatability and education. How much education should people be putting in? What's the balance of content people should put on their Instagram? Ah, that's such a good question. Here's what I typically do to just kind of keep myself in check and make sure I am educating enough and, um, making sure I have a good balance, right?
Shannon McKinstrie (25:47):
So I don't really do a percent, well, I guess it would come down to a percentage, but, um, this is what I do. This is one of my favorite tips to share with people because this is what I do for myself and my clients. And it works because we all know there's different buyer personas, right? And just like you said, there's someone who's gonna be more attracted to the really pretty film with the actors and then somebody who's more attracted to the raw, right? So this is how I map out my week for myself and my clients. Think of how all of our brains work, right? We, we wake up Monday or maybe Sunday night, we got the Sunday scaries Monday morning, we're like, Oh God, here we go again on Sunday, Mondays, we need that empathy, inspiration, motivation, pep talks, permission slips, et cetera.
Shannon McKinstrie (26:24):
Right? We need that. What I always ask people, what is your person need to hear today? <laugh>. What is it that's, what are, what's on their brain? What's keeping them up? What permission slip do they need? That's great for Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. That's when I educate and I hit 'em with like, here's a tip, here's a hack, here's a tutorial. Something simple. We're overwhelmed. Keep it simple. And then Thursday, Friday is the relatable, fun, silly. That's where I'm like, let's have some fun. Let's lol <laugh>, let's laugh at each other. Let's, let's lol together. Who's calling me a millennial? I'm gonna logs with you forever. Shannon. <laugh> side parts man, side parts. LOLs, laughing emojis. Here I am, we're on Saturday. What happens to Saturday? What's, what are we doing Saturday? I'm, I refuse to post on Saturdays because that is something I have protected myself around.
Shannon McKinstrie (27:15):
Saturday is Sabbath. Saturday is Saturday Sabbath and Shannon, it is, it is. So, and it's totally okay to disappear one day a week because it's actually intentional. And I do this strategically because when you let your stories completely expire for a day, the next time you throw a story up there, Instagram's like, Thank God your she's back. And they like throw it out to more people. And we get four. I mean, you don't look at my stories for how many stories put up. I put way more than you should. I would always advise someone 10 or under, cuz after 10 views drop significantly after I think about when I walk, I don't wanna see that many. Like, yeah, no, after three they drop. So I always keep the first three, three stories of your day. Like where if you got something important to say, you're trying to build your email, that's where it goes.
Shannon McKinstrie 1 (27:57):
Like this morning, the first thing I did was what? Something I needed to get out today.
Kim Rittberg:
Okay, So first of all, by the way, I'm loving these tips. I'm typing notes. I'm actually typing notes. I do a newsletter for the show. So I type the notes. I do a blog post and a newsletter. These tips are such gold. How do you, I love it. So for businesses on Instagram or really on social, but on Instagram, how do they push from connecting, Being relatable, making people like you to selling, selling their service or selling their product. Okay, So, so do you mean like as far as stories or content or both? Anything like, like what would you recommend? So let's say we have a business owner. Let's say we have a business and they're on Instagram, they're growing their following, they're connecting, you know, they're, they're seeing that people are relating to them, they're getting some engagement.
Shannon McKinstrie (28:37):
How do they go from connecting, getting some followers to actually selling their service or product? I love this. Okay. I always like to use the analogy that Instagram's a little, Let's pretend it's a store, basically. Like your bio is your billboard. It's, it's, or it's not the bill, it's the signage. It's the sign outside that says gifts, apparel, Right? It's like, this is what's inside. You're grid is people, the window. They're, they're peeking in, they're being nosy, they're trying to get the vibe, the energy they're trying to fill, what it's like. And then the stories are the open door. That's where they walk in and they can shoot you with dm. So d I'm telling you right now, stories convert like great, z I test this all the time, right? Like put something in my reel, like, hey DM me this. If I put in stories, I get so, or even the link sticker in stories, I get more, uh, conversion.
Shannon McKinstrie (29:26):
If I say DM me here and I put a little arrow cuz they're more comfortable or they don't wanna go out of the, they don't wanna leave my story. What sort of, what sort of service or product are you gonna get someone from stories? Is it gonna be someone's like, I'm offering a class, um, I only have three spots left. Mm-hmm <affirmative> DM me here if you're interested. Or yeah, DM me if you have a question. Like what, what is the cause I think that there's, people struggle with feeling salesy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So how do you, how do you get through that? You just gotta know that people, that you're doing them a favor. If you talk about what you're, what you're selling, you really are. I said for years, I'm the worst salesman in the world. I'm the worst salesmen in the world. I'm like, well I can't be, if I'm <laugh> six, If you're running a multi six figure business, you're not the worst salesperson in the world, let me tell you that.
Shannon McKinstrie (30:07):
I will right? Get the value of that notion <laugh>. Well that's why I'm like, I don't understand cause I'm terrible at sales, right? And even when my sales jobs, I would get highs. That's why I was like, I gotta get back to marketing. But I would just talk about it. I would talk about why I'm selling it. I would talk about, I would tell the story. I would share the dm, the happy DM from the client, things like that. So the way I do it is I, this is, this is how I started selling it. Again, this is not anything I learned. I just tested things out. Let's say you and I are on a consultation call, I hang up, I'd get on stories and I go, Oh my gosh, the coolest thing, this came up in our store in our huddle hour. They didn't know how to do x, I found them, blah, blah, blah.
Shannon McKinstrie (30:42):
Oh if you want one. And I, back in the day, I wouldn't even pitch, they'd just DM me and be like, what's, what's that? I used to do hashtag vaults back, back when everyone was, you know, hashtag obsessed. And I would just show a boomerang, a simple boomerang like sending a hashtag vault out to a client. I'd get like 10 dms. People being like, What's that? I wanna, now I get more confident cuz now I know they want to know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then I don't have to answer their dm. I tell 'em exactly what to do. So one thing I love to do, instead of the link sticker, this is a great way to grow your email list. I love that question box. It's a sticker where, you know, you can ask a question. I say drop your email below and I do this all the time and I get like 20, 30 people to drop their emails.
Shannon McKinstrie (31:22):
I add 'em to their email list, right? How do you, what's the question you're asking? Okay, what's coming before that? So you're recommending an Instagram story is there's a question box. And instead of saying ask me a question, you can say, put your email to get added, give me your email and I'll put you in my newsletter. I'll add you to exactly. Or interesting. But put it before that. What are you putting before that? Right? That someone's responding with their email. So if my goal is to grow my email list, or I wanna send the email with all the information to them, I just say, drop your email below. So I'll have texts up there being like, if you're interested or wanna join my email, I, I usually plug the email what it's about or if, if it's a course, whatever it is, right? So wait list.
Shannon McKinstrie (32:01):
This is how I always grow my wait list and my, so if I have a wait list for a upcoming program or whatever, I'm like, drop your email. Like I don't even say click a link because they're not going to three people might, four people might. And I'll say, which is like 0.01% of people watching my story, if I say, drop your email here and we'll hook you up, I swipe up. It's like, full love did. So right before that though, you were talking about something, she's like, I prompt I helped this. Oh my god, today I helped this client do X, Y, and Z. And people are like, me, you, me too. And they see themselves in the story and you're like, it was such a great meeting, I felt so great. I could help them. The ideas were helping them. That's your service provider you'd like to help.
Shannon McKinstrie (32:39):
Right? And then the next slide, you're like, drop your email here. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I'll send you tips. So for, yeah, so for some, right? So for something more about like, if I'm trying to sell an actual huddle out, trying to get, I'll literally just say DM me for the link. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I'll get the dm. Now I know it's a lot to manage dms, so lean on the, like you'll watch my stories and be like, what is she talking about? There's a link sticker in every story <laugh>. That's because I, my dms are flooded right now. I can't get, I can't get people, I won't get to that. I need the auto, you need the auto flow of a newsletter, right? But if you're struggling, so smart. I think this is really smart cuz I do think I, I love, I love that um, the idea of just someone's like, Yeah, okay, you boom, instead of sending to another page.
Kim Rittberg (33:20):
Um, I have a question to you about how often should you repeat content? Cuz I, I feel like people say it only shows up to 10% of your audience at any given time. So if you're trying to grow your newsletter or you're trying to sell something, a product or a service or a course, should you be repeating that? Hey, give me your email a few times a week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so this is what I do. This is my favorite thing to do cuz especially for my fellow people that hate selling. Like, we feel gross what I do in my caption. Yeah. I also, I also hate selling. I don't mind embarra. Well I love teaching. I love teaching. I love informing. I hate selling. I hate it too. You know what's funny, what I do? And you should do student stories. I'll be like, shameless plug, like I poke.
Shannon McKinstrie (33:57):
We're not dumb. Tell me what you're doing. I even did it yesterday cuz I've been talking about this webinar I did the other day all week. I was like, I know you guys are so tired of listening to me talk about this webinar. I'll shut up after Tuesday promise. Like I make a joke about it. I I'm selling something. You just, they know you're selling something. So I'll kind of poke fun. Um, or what I do is I give a tip. So let's say you're doing a piece of content and you're trying to get people to buy your course. Buy your product, whatever. It's, I'll be like, hey, here's three ways to xy z da da da da ps did you know I gave you all this and more in my blah blah blah. Click the link in my bio. DM me, comment this below.
Shannon McKinstrie (34:34):
I'll give them a call to action for how to get it got. Then after that I go, All right, let's hear it was, which tip was your favorite? One, two, or three. Yeah. So this way, cuz if they just see a call to action, go click my stuff and buy it, they'll go, Okay, you wanna start a conversation every time you put up a piece of content up, it's a, you wanna be a thought leader, you wanna talk, you wanna establish yourself as an expert. Start the conversation. Cuz every time they comment and you comment back, you're the first piece of person on their feed next time they log in, right? But if they're looking, so that's a great way to do it in your captions. That's how I do it. I call it the double cta. I didn't coin this. This is a lot of people do it.
Shannon McKinstrie (35:12):
And then, um, that's why I started doing and not feel icky. So I was like, I'm not only selling, I'm also inviting them into a conversation that's easy. And then in stories, that's where I go DME or you know, DMM for the link or, or just click the link. I mean, again, if you're selling something, you gotta talk about it every day. Put it in stories and test it one day. Do the question box another day, do the link sticker the other day, do a DM and just see what, see what works. So that we have the question box. We have the link. What's the third option to get people to, to add your newsletter? I see a lot of people go swipe, swipe if you want. So that's slider. The slider sticker. People love that thing. They can't, they can't resist it. Oh yeah.
Shannon McKinstrie (35:50):
Swipe, swipe the heart, swipe the hard swipe. You want me to send you blah, blah blah. Oh my gosh. People do that all time. And um, I'll swipe and they'll DM me and be like, okay, here it is. Like you can literally say swipe if you, if you want it. And again, this is, and then you send it to them as less spammy. Love that. Exactly. Cause they ask for it. You also do a lot of work on LinkedIn. Yes. Can you gimme some, gimme some tips for someone who wants to crush it on LinkedIn. Yeah. Don't, don't do how tos <laugh> like do not be a thought leader. Period. And if you don't know what that means, look it up. How to be a thought leader. I treat LinkedIn. I literally share my tweets and that's what so many people on LinkedIn crush it.
Shannon McKinstrie (36:25):
We people on LinkedIn love a screenshot of a tweet, which is a simple thought provoking discussion. Is it, are you really screenshotting your own tweet or you're pretending? Do you actually hate her? No, I actually tweet. Yeah. Okay. And actually twi Twitter is literally my brain. I, if I have an idea, I go throw it there cuz I know it's there. I can't lose it in notes. I can't lose it in a sea of Google drives. I tweet it out all my content if you oh me on, I don't have a falling on Twitter at all. It's literally my brain dump. If I'm venting or pissed about something. Oh, I go off on Twitter, I'm like, it's a thread. And I just go. And then there's my, there's my real and I literally take it. And that's my real script sometimes. Okay, so, all right.
Shannon McKinstrie (37:04):
So to crush on LinkedIn, don't do how tos try to be a thought leader and by trying to be a thought leader you mean opinions LinkedIn on a topic that ever people are talking about and give your own take. Yes. Like for instance, I saw one on LinkedIn that went bananas. And just literally what you have to do on all these platforms is study it. You gotta go through what's getting attention. Why. Right? And so like for instance, like, um, I saw, and here's an example of a how too that is good on LinkedIn. There was one yesterday where it was like, um, the best open rate times for emails is between seven and 9:00 AM whatever. Right? And like, but that's a simple, you know what I mean? It's not like this whole how it was a tweet. Yeah. A tip. It's, it's a quick tip.
Shannon McKinstrie (37:42):
It's a quick tip. It's a quick tip. So if you're gonna do that quick tip, another one I saw that was awesome was like underrated marketing scale being nice or something like that. And it's like everyone's going crazy. Like yeah, yeah. Fire emojis. And it's just like simple thoughts. Now the other thing that says really well on LinkedIn is your, any of your successes, your story. So think anything you've ever done on any sort of content where you're talking about, you know, um, mine would start off with like, we needed money for diapers. I don't know, but you know what I mean. Like, talk about your story, tell your story of how you got here. People love to cheer you on. They love a success story. They love to see you at marketing events. So literally the biggest, when I look at my LinkedIn top performing, it's anytime I've been at a marketing event with other business professionals, I'll post that, right?
Shannon McKinstrie (38:26):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, look at us, we're at a networking event, da da da. People love it. They geek out to any like, oh my god, I had a record breaking month that does well. And then third, my thoughts and opinions. That's it. 1, 2, 3. Those are your content pillars in LinkedIn. And then how do you get engagement? You gotta get in there. Same as Instagram. Uh, what's really cool about LinkedIn, same as Instagram. Like if I go like, and comment on something, um, it shows up to other people and people that aren't following you. Yes. That's it. And go like, okay, I, it's my dream to speak on stage one day, right? As social media examiner, why make sure I comment on every social media examiner post in hopes that people that work there watching and go see my stuff. So I actually repurpose my talks, my tweets, everything.
Shannon McKinstrie (39:08):
Almost everything on LinkedIn I do is repurpose completely. So I love that. Don't overthink LinkedIn. Talk me. Sorry. You, you said that the LinkedIn content pillars are so behind the scenes, um, successes. I would say just behind the scenes triumphs behind the scenes successes Yep. Of your business. Like honestly, apic a picture of me with with crazy on LinkedIn, I'm crazy. For me it was a picture of a bottle in my computer and a cup of coffee and it was like my morning and people loved it. So behind the, that's what I mean raw, not branded photos, nothing fancy. The second would be thoughts and opinions, which apparent, like you don't even have to do a tweet, you can just type it out like a really po not po it doesn't have to be crazy polarizing, but just something, um, that everyone within your niche will attach to cuz they're like, get it.
Shannon McKinstrie (40:00):
And then, um, your successes, Sorry, wait, did I say that right? So number one is behind successes of your successes and keep it raw and real thoughts, your opinions. And then third is your story. The empathy. Like your personal story, right? Like mine would be like, uh, I was in the hospital bed delivering my second child and my whole video unit was crashing before me. I decided I need to work for myself. I wanted to re there it control of my career. So that's love it. Picture of me, picture of me in the hospital. Why am I posting a picture of my hospital? This is why Right. People would eat it up. Yep. And yet you gotta have a strong hook. Yeah, I mean that's, there's two things that I love what you're saying cuz these are things that I do in my business'. Content strategy.
Shannon McKinstrie (40:40):
A hook is true for every single place you post. It doesn't even matter. It's a newsletter. It's, it's LinkedIn, it's Instagram everywhere. It's the first seconds. Someone's gonna decide if they're reading it or not. But the other thing you were saying is you gotta squeeze all the juice from the orange, whatever you're making, try to use it in many different ways, whether you're on one platform or two or five. Use that one thing like you were saying about your diaper founder story. Yeah. Like you needed money for diapers, which now is gonna be like the title of this episode. Um, <laugh>, she needed money for diapers. <laugh> she wants for business. Yep, that's exactly, So your diaper founder story, you're gonna use that on LinkedIn as a photo. You're gonna do a reel on Instagram. You're gonna put that in a newsletter with a nice photo of you.
Kim Rittberg (41:19):
So I love the idea to people is you don't have to make five pieces of content. You have one idea and then you have five pieces of content. So literally, literally, I, I have a reel about this. I'll do my tweet, I expand on it on LinkedIn. I take that, I make it a real, I then make it a TikTok and then it's an email. Like it's that I know, I don't like to say it's that easy cuz a lot of people struggle with this, but like lit literally. It can be that easy, but you've gotta just have a time where you feel creative and dump ideas. Yeah. And then you're good. I love that. Yeah. Shannon, Um, this was like a masterclass in social media. <laugh>, I wanna thank you enough. You can find Shannon on Instagram, LinkedIn, or on her website shannonmckinstrie.com.
Kim Rittberg (42:02):
And that's gonna be linked out in the show notes. Here is when we feature a real mom showing life in its happiest, funniest, or gross moments. Alissa Maizes is the mom of two boys, ages 19 and 21. And the mom of her investing advising firm amplify my wealth with her children heading to college and her passion for finances and helping others. Inspired her to write a new chapter in her life, empowering women with their finances. Alyssa shares a sweet story from when her kids were little. Have you ever wondered if your efforts to impart your values upon your kids was making a difference? I have. I have a vivid memory of when my kids were barely in elementary school and we would carry on our tradition of them going through their belongings and selecting the items to donate to others. And so granted, this takes a lot longer with kids, but I thought it was important to do it with them rather than for them.
Alissa Maizes (43:03):
And so as usual, they selected items, packaged it, walked it into the garage, placed in the suv, and like every other time we've done it, there was that moment when the car was overflowing and we were ready to jump in until this day when they noticed two items that didn't make it into the SUV and they questioned me. Well, it was the little Tyke's kitchen that they used to waddle around and prepare gourmet food for me. And then it was that little rocking horse that they used to jump on straight from the bath soaking wet. And so they saw that I was hesitating, they wrapped their arms around me, reassuring me that it was okay that someone else would enjoy it. At that moment with my heart full of joy, but my eyes filled with tears. I knew that my efforts were making a difference. That's adorable. And if you wanna submit your story, visit moms exit interview.com. And while you're there, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter or you can also get my Day Job, Real Job newsletter, or I help people get better on camera and make great content to grow their business.
Kim Rittberg (44:23):
Thank you so much for listening. We wanna hear from you. Tell us what topics you want us to cover and what questions you have for upcoming shows and experts. We will read everyone and we will use them. You can find us everywhere. Go to mom's exit www.kimrittberg.com, scroll down to find the contact button, or you can DM me on Instagram at Kim Rittberg. Or you can leave your feedback right inside your review in the podcast app. Please follow the show in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen and leave review in a five star rating. And don't forget to share it with people who will find it valuable. It's truly meant to be a resource. And this is Mom's Exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Rittberg. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. John Haitz is our editor, and Aliza Friedlander is our producer in publicist.