EP. 21 / Spouses, Parents, & Coworkers: Lisa Chu on Keeping Business in the Family PLUS Business Babes Collective's Danielle Wiebe— Tips for Cash Flow & Collaborations
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Do you and your partner dream of starting your own business? What would it be like to have your spouse as your coworker? How do you build a team of employees that feels more like a family? And what does it take to have staying power in one of the world’s fastest moving industries?
Lisa Chu and her husband Coltrane started their company, Team Epiphany, at a conference table with one phone and a single ethernet cord... And their main goal was to get out of NYC and down to Miami to party through the winter! Today, they count themselves as the original influencer marketing agency with clients like Absolut, Nike, and HBO.
Find out how Lisa learned quickly to deal with misogyny in the corporate realm (including one CFO who refused to speak to her!), why working outside the house makes her a better mom, and the way she rebelled against the traditional postpartum expectations of her Taiwanese culture. You’ll also hear one of Lisa’s favorite stories from her crazy New York nightlife days (Hint: it involves P. Diddy, a Ziploc baggie, and thousands of dollars worth of jewelry).
PLUS I’m talking to Business Babes Collective founder Danielle Wiebe about her best tips for entrepreneurs looking for quick cash flow and growing a business through collaborations, partnerships, and affiliate marketing.
Danielle gets detailed on what percentages you should be offering, how to find the right mutually beneficial collaborations, and how to craft emails that make people want to partner with you.
Show Takeaways:
Lisa on the Why She Loves Being Her Own Boss:
“You're never gonna hustle harder than you are gonna hustle for yourself, right? You're never gonna work harder.”
Lisa on a Disrespectful Encounter With a Male CFO:
“There are differences being a woman. I know that sounds really crazy these days, but it's true. We've been in meetings with CFOs at a well known company, where the guy refused to talk to me and would only address [my husband]. And I was like, ‘You're not gonna get a financial answer from him because he doesn't deal with finances. I am the one running finance, I know the answers. He's like the face of the company. He has no idea where every penny was spent.’ ”
Lisa on Working Outside the Home:
“People ask me all the time, ‘Do you wish you were like a stay at home mom?’ And I’m like, ‘No.’ I don't know if it's just who I am, but I think that I'm a better mom for having a job that I really like, because when I'm with them I really like being with them and I really enjoy that time.”
Danielle on How to Build Your Business Through Affiliate Marketing:
“There's a lot of affiliate programs out there and if you're only going to offer a 10% kickback... No one's going to actually do that, I'm just going to be completely honest. The higher percentage the better. Anywhere between 30 to 50% for a passive product is probably where you want to be.”
Danielle on How To Scale Your Business Without Over-hiring:
“A lot of entrepreneurs, they think their only option to scale is to hire a lot of employees. I had that moment of, ‘Do I want this massive team and we're all working and we have an office?’ And for me, it has worked so well for me to work with contractors, because they are truly experts in their industry.”
Danielle on Expanding Your Audience—Don’t Get Spammy!:
“Make sure that when you approach any collaboration, any partnership—whether it's getting in front of their audience or them getting in front of your audience or collaborating and doing something together—really figure out: What is the benefit? How can this be mutually beneficial? Because if you're pitching it in a way that's just all about you, it's not gonna come across the best.”
Danielle’s Quick Cash Flow Tips:
Take advantage of your network
Always follow up—never let a warm lead cool off
Advertise yourself—let people know you’re looking to expand
Look for advocates, collaborators, and partnerships
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EPISODE LINKS:
GUEST LINKS:
Lisa Chu | Team Epiphany | Instagram
Danielle Wiebe | Business Babes Collective | Instagram
Kim Rittberg (00:02):
You'll hear from Lisa Chu, who runs a hundred person agency with her husband. Her unusual path to it includes some truly noteworthy work stories including tour buses and P Diddy. She talks about how she juggles it all and that time a man wouldn't even talk to her in a meeting. We can't work with people who just refuse to address women, like that's just crazy.
Kim Rittberg (00:25):
Then you'll learn tips on how to grow a business through collaborations, partnerships, and affiliate marketing. From the head of the business, Babes Collective, Danielle Wiebe,
Kim Rittberg (00:36):
This is Mom's Exit interview, the show for moms who wanna craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational moms across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms, and they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness, to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses. They're taking back control. Join me and make work, work for you instead of the other way around.
Kim Rittberg (01:43):
Hey everyone, thank you for listening. As always. If my voice sounds a little ragged today, it's because I've had a crazy month. I went cold water swimming to some, that's probably not a huge deal, but to me it is. I'm a total beach lover. Love the sun. Hate the cold, Definitely hate swimming in cold water. My dad was Middle Eastern, so I like to think I was born with desert skin anyway, I was invited to do the cold water swim for an amazing charity called Chick Mission, which helps women freeze their eggs if they're diagnosed with cancer. So I just had to be brave for that and I used it as a teachable moment with my kids. Look, look, Mommy is terrified <laugh>, but she's doing it anyway. She's being brave and so can you. Anyway, so that, that's what's going on with my voice.
Kim Rittberg (02:33):
Some other really fun news, listen, I know you love this podcast. It means you think about your career and how it fits in with your life and so are a lot of other people. I was interviewed on cable news on Ashley Banfield show about this exact topic. It was on News Nation and we were talking about working women, why they're leaving corporate and what they're looking for. So we are all trailblazers talking about this and before I start, I have some great people coming on the show today. If you're driving or maybe you're grabbing a pumpkin latte or whatever right now, if you haven't, please drop a five star rating in review and follow the show. It helps it reach more ears and please send me your feedback. I love feedback. Unlike at work or the word feedback is terrible, please drop your feedback. And also, if you're trying to grow your business with amazing content, I make amazing content like this podcast and award-winning videos for brands and professionals, you could check out my site, go to kimrittberg.com, I have some free downloads with super easy and amazing tips. And now you're gonna be hearing from Lisa Chew, who runs a hundred person marketing and creative agency called Team Epiphany alongside her husband. You'll hear from her her unusual path to running a company, including some time spent on a tour bus, like many weeks. That one time when a chief financial officer refused to even talk to her in a meeting because she was a woman masked up plus a totally crazy story about PagerDuty and a very expensive piece of jewelry.
Lisa Chu (04:03):
So I grew up in California in the Bay Area, um, born in the East Bay, I guess you could call it, uh, in Oakland, but only lived there for a month. And I was then brought to Taiwan where my family's from. Um, lived there for a couple years and then my parents decided that they wanted like the California suburban life for us, brought us back, you know, raised us in the house that we were in forever in San Mateo, which is I guess now part of Silicon Valley <laugh>, which is weird to me because you know, back in the days it was filled with like the circus or orcas and now it's like a whole industry. I really want to be in fashion. So I got into f i t, came out here by myself, um, and finished off school there. I thought I wanted to be a fashion editor. And during my senior year I interned at People Teen People Magazine and I quickly learned that I did not wanna be a fashion editor. <laugh>
Kim Rittberg (05:08):
Lisa eventually started working in photo production, but over time felt it was a little monotonous.
Kim Rittberg (05:14):
You decide you don't wanna work in digital photo production or photo production in general. What's next?
Lisa Chu (05:19):
I go into marketing. A friend of mine was like, Hey, I'm at this small marketing um, agency, Do you wanna come here? And I was like, Why not? Uh, you know, I had at that point been in New York for five years and really kind of entrenched in like the New York nightlife scene. And there I feel like I finally figured out a way to make like my life marry my work. So I actually, um, helped launch Ivanca for book hardi, some Coke products, but also really start building like kind of pseudo influencer programs to push product out. And that I did for about two years.
Kim Rittberg (05:58):
At the time, Puff Daddy or P Diddy had an agency and Lisa started working for them, doing branded partnerships, handling the look and feel of the tour and booking talent. And she ended up going on tour with some of the acts being slick Rick Dougie Fresh and a Tribe called Quest.
Lisa Chu (06:14):
It was five weeks, 10 cities each. Um, so basically it was like the same cities, but every tour was a a different type of act. You're literally living on a bus, sleeping on a bus, eating, you know, Ramen noodles.
Kim Rittberg (06:31):
Wait, wait, sorry, sorry. When you said sleeping on a bus, do you have hotel rooms?
Lisa Chu (06:35):
We do. But you're like leading like super late at night or super early in the morning and it takes like a day to get there. So all the buses, I feel like how many there were maybe there were like depending on the act because depending on who was performing, how big their crew was, like there'd be a number of buses. But like the buses had beds and I all, all of us had beds. So you can like be sleeping on the bus, you can just be hanging out, but it takes forever to get across the country. <laugh> on a bus, I mean you're literally on the road for five weeks.
Kim Rittberg (07:05):
Around that time, Lisa met her husband Coltrane and she explains how their marketing and created the agency called Team Epiphany was launched, originally started by Coling and two of their friends.
Lisa Chu (07:16):
It was like five of us sitting around a conference table with like one ethernet chord and one phone <laugh>. Um, and that's kind of how Epiphany started and they started it to really go to Miami for free and party <laugh>. Um, and once I got there it was like, oh, there's real work.
Kim Rittberg (07:39):
And so now, so now do you co-run it with your husband? You work together and you co run the company?
Lisa Chu (07:44):
I co-run it with him. We kind of do very different things. He's like the face of the company. He's the one pitching the clients. He's the one out and about schmoozing with them. Um, and he works with a strategy team that comes up with all the ideas. I run the production team with 10 B handle, you know, oversee finance and operations, so, and hr, so all kind of in-house stuff with a little bit of production stuff.
Kim Rittberg (08:13):
You run this company with your husbands. What are some of the pros and cons?
Lisa Chu (08:16):
Pros, Let's start with the happy stuff. Um, pros is like you're never gonna hustle harder than you are gonna hustle for yourself, right? You're never gonna work harder. Um, you don't have to answer to a boss, but you do have to answer to a lot of employees. So that's kind of is like a double edged stored like you feel responsible for these people's lives. Like if you have to like somebody go, you have to think about like, oh my God, like they have X, Y, and Z that they take care of. Or you know, ABC Pros, I could set my own schedule. I'm kind of a workaholic. Like I don't really go by the clock, I go by, I don't want want to wake up to 900 emails <laugh>. So I'm ans I always tell people if I'm shooting you emails late at night, don't feel like obligated to answer. I just need to get it off my like list of things I need to run through. Um, pros, someone asked me that last night like what's the best thing about building the company? And I think it's really seeing the people that we hire and them building their career here and seeing their work out in the world.
Kim Rittberg (09:23):
Yeah, getting to mentor and getting to like let people grow. That's cool.
Lisa Chu (09:26):
Yeah, like I was saying, it sucks when like big agencies like Widen, like steal them, but it's like also a little bit like you wouldn't steal them if they weren't good. Yeah. You
Kim Rittberg (09:35):
Know? Yeah. I had some people on my team and a few of them, one went to today show Digital, another went to NBC News Digital. I'm like, yes. That's amazing. Good for you. Like yes.
Kim Rittberg (09:45):
And Lisa talks about her experience of running an agency as a woman.
Lisa Chu (09:49):
I've always seen there are differences as being an old woman. I know that sounds really crazy these days, but it's true. We've been in meetings with CFOs at a pretty big well known company, holding company where the guy refused to talk to me and just would only address cold train. And I was like, you're not gonna get a financial answer from him because he doesn't deal with finances.
Kim Rittberg (10:14):
So you were in a meeting with another big company, the CFO would only talk to your husband and not to you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> even though you run finance. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, how did you react to that?
Lisa Chu (10:23):
I kept like, he's not gonna answer that question. Like I know the answers. Like I am the one running finance, I know the answers. He's like the face of the company. He has no idea where every penny was spent, where whatever. It was a really awkward conversation. I think at the end of it I walked away with, I think he was trying to get us to out one of his employees for doing something shady and that wasn't the case, but he kept like pushing Coltrane to like say something and I was like, he's not gonna answer that question. We walked away from it and we walked away from the business and we really haven't worked with them since. And they're a huge company, a well known company. And I was just like, I can't like you, I can't, we can't work with people who just refuse to address women. Like that's just crazy.
Kim Rittberg (11:12):
Do you have mom guilt?
Lisa Chu (11:13):
What is mom guilt? Explain that to me.
Kim Rittberg (11:16):
That's good. If you don't even know what it is, it means you don't have it. <laugh>
Lisa Chu (11:20):
People ask me all the time like, Oh, do you feel like, you know, do you wish you were like a stay at home mom? Or I was like, No <laugh>. I don't know if it's just who I am, but I also think that I'm a better mom for having a job that I really like because when I'm with them then I really like being with them and I really enjoy that time and I don't get annoyed. I think even on maternity leave, and I don't recommend this to anybody is literally just me. Like I have a very hard time doing the same thing over and over again at home. Like being Chinese, you're supposed to like have this whole period after you have a kid where you're not supposed to do anything. You're not supposed to take a shower, you're not supposed to move, you're not supposed to do wash your hair that didn't last very long. Um, but you're not supposed to go anywhere for like a month and you're supposed to drink all these herbs and soups and stuff like that. I mean, I was like ready to run out the door <laugh>. I'm also a better mom for having a job cuz then when I'm with my kids, I'm really with them and I'm like, not like, ugh, just go to bed. You know, like, if you wanna keep 100. I know so many moms are just like, what time are you gonna go to
Kim Rittberg (12:34):
Bed? Yeah. I I remember a friend, someone was mentioning that another person that they felt like the work of the day was just getting to bedtime. Like what about the living in the day <laugh>. Right. What about the living <laugh>?
Lisa Chu (12:48):
I think that's like, I, that's what exactly what I'm saying. Like you just like wake up to wait for bedtime and like, that's not like I wanna be there, I wanna like take them out. I wanna like play games with them. I wanna read them, I wanna like hang out with them and not just be like, ok, it's bedtime now go to bed so I can have a glass of wine.
Kim Rittberg (13:04):
How do you do that? How do you balance that and not wanna tear your hair out? Do you have family help? Do you have great nanny? Like how do you, you
Lisa Chu (13:09):
Know, we have a great nanny we call ie, which is auntie, like I said, um, she's amazing. We don't have family that helps. His mother doesn't live near us and my mother is in a nursing home in Taiwan and both our fathers passed away. Um, so we really rely on our nanny to help out and to be honest, the people here help out. Like, people here are like, I know it's weird, but they're like close friends. They'll be like, No, I'll go grab e from school and like just hop on a train and go grab him at school and bring him back here or drop him off at the house.
Kim Rittberg (13:42):
All right. You, you had a lot of parties in your younger years, maybe in your current years. Got any crazy stories from me? I feel like you must have some crazy stories.
Lisa Chu (13:51):
Crazy stories from New York Night Life. Wow. Uh,
Kim Rittberg (13:56):
I, I feel like I'm like, I know you have some p crazy old pea Diddy story from 2002.
Lisa Chu (14:02):
A crazy story. I mean when I was there I got, I remember one time having the call called him be like, I'm not coming home. And he was like, Why? I was like, he came by the office, his zip lock bag of jewelry is missing. And they didn't discover that until he got to Teterboro and now the entire office is on lockdown because everyone has to go through security to figure out where this bag of jewelry is. So I'm just gonna sit here in this queue of security and figure out how to get out this building. And he's like, Is that a joke? And I'm like, No.
Kim Rittberg (14:35):
Wait. So first of all he did he put his jewelry in his Ziploc bag? Yes. Okay. That's a little weird. Anyway, but whoever
Lisa Chu (14:41):
Decided to do that, the bag of jewelry was missing and it was like, I was like, is this a joke? <laugh>,
Kim Rittberg (14:46):
So he's in a private, ok, so he's in a private plane at Teeter Airport outside New York, York and he's like, Oh, he realizes jewelry is missing and everyone's on lockdown. Did they find the jewelry?
Lisa Chu (14:57):
Unclear?
Kim Rittberg (14:59):
Oh,
Lisa Chu (15:00):
Unclear. Wow. But the entire office was on lockdown because this bag of jewelry was missing.
Kim Rittberg (15:08):
What's in the hardest part of running a business, being an entrepreneur, having two kids? What's been the hardest part?
Lisa Chu (15:14):
I think the hardest part is not being able, sometimes I really do. Any people that can just clock off people who really can just go on vacation. Like I don't think we have that luxury like we go on vacation, but if necessary we will get on that call if something happens. I will answer that now. I mean, I think sometimes I really do envy people with that. Others like I'm not shop is closed.
Kim Rittberg (15:34):
One of the pros of running your own business is that you could wear whatever you
Lisa Chu (15:37):
Want, whatever you want. Like I would say 50% of the time I'm in like a workout outfit. Like literally
Kim Rittberg (15:44):
That's a big advantage.
Lisa Chu (15:46):
That's why people like being here. It's just you don't get that like super stuffy environment, you know, where you feel like you have to be like this. I mean, and, and that ultimately was my last job. I was at the office and done with my job I one and like falling asleep at my desk being like, this is but have be here 'til don't fall asleep. <laugh>.
Kim Rittberg (16:09):
I've had those where I was like, so I need to stay another three hours because I'm too efficient at my job. There's no problem with America.
Lisa Chu (16:17):
Yeah,
Kim Rittberg (16:20):
You could check out their agency at Team Epiphany and you could follow Lisa at Miss Lisa Chu on Instagram.
Kim Rittberg (16:42):
Now I'm really excited to bring you some tips. I loved talking to Danielle Wiebe of the Business, Babes Collective, she's the founder of that group. It's a global community for female entrepreneurs and she hosts a podcast of the same name Beast in Vancouver, Canada. Danielle realized entrepreneurs in her area were looking for community, so she began hosting in-person events, then Wawa Covid hit. So she had to immediately pivot. Of course she was having her baby Rosemary and it was a crazy time for her. Danielle has great tips about how to earn revenue quickly, how to grow your business with collaborations, partnerships, affiliate marketing and more. I love starting an interview with a crying baby in the background. Actually that's the best kind of interview, Danielle. It's real.
Danielle Wiebe (17:30):
Exactly right. <laugh>
Danielle Wiebe (17:35):
Was in the fall of 2020 when I hit really bad burnout because we had hosted a conference in September and right after that conference, like it was, the conference itself was really successful. It was all online and we, we got all of our different chapter leaders together. We hosted this conference and um, it was a successful conference, but I had put like so much into that and I was just basically running off of adrenaline from when we heard there was covid shutdown till then. And so I had to take a step back and just figure out, okay, what are we doing here? What is our, what does our community look like now that, you know, Covid doesn't look like there's, you know, anything changing anytime soon. And then, um, so I, I really went through a time of like discovering like what is the business and then what are my strengths? What can I do that is different from what we've been doing before? And really pivot it in a way that serves our community best.
Kim Rittberg (18:40):
Getting into the tips, Danielle encourages entrepreneurs to find their profitable action steps. So if you need more cash flow quickly, here's how to do
Danielle Wiebe (18:49):
It. So I always go to the low hanging fruit first. So is there people that you've been in contact with that have maybe mentioned? And a lot of times we, we don't, um, actually take advantage of the moment that we're in. So for example, a lot of times, say for example, you're at a party and you're like, Oh, this is what I do and someone's like, Oh well I like that sounds like something I need in my life or whatever. And we're like, Oh yeah, okay, we maybe like give them a business card or probably not today. Maybe they're like, Oh this is my Instagram, follow me here. Uh, but then it's like we don't actually follow up with those people. We're like, oh, if they're interested then the why. And so it's following up with those really warm leads who you know you can help and you can support.
Danielle Wiebe (19:32):
So if there's been people either that have reached out to you in the past or people that you know of that could use the product or the service that you offer, following up directly with them I think is the absolute best way to, to start. That's like where I would start the low hanging fruit. And then from there it's like how can you potentially generate referrals? So reaching out to your past customers or even um, people that have, have potentially referred you in the past and just putting it out there that either you're looking for new clients or you're looking to expand your business. Is there anyone else or any other connections that you know of that you think, or someone that you think I could meet or should meet? And so you never know like what doors that is gonna open for you and looking at those action steps that can bring you in a large amount of income.
Danielle Wiebe (20:22):
So for example, like let's say you're, cuz I know a lot of this would be maybe for service based entrepreneurs of like following up the past leads and all that kinda stuff. Say you're a product based business, maybe you wanna pitch different stores that you could have your product in, cuz that's gonna be a wholesale order. So that's gonna be a decent amount of money upfront rather than just looking for those people that are gonna be your direct customers. So how can you actually look for people who can be advocates for your brand? Um, and that's where collaborations and partnerships I think sinks in really, really well with that. So how can you partner with other people who potentially, that's kind of the next step is how can you partner with other people who have your ideal clients within their network? And how can you create a mutually beneficial partnership, collaboration or cross promote where you can get it in front of their audience, they can get in front of your audience. And there's like so many different ways to do that. Um, but you know, it could be giveaways, it could be, uh, email list swaps. I love that because it's like so easy and such a natural way to, to share if you have a platform, if you have like a podcast, it's like collaborating on a podcast, uh, or YouTube channel or Instagram. And there's, there's so many different ways hosting an event with someone who has an ideal like audience similar to yours. So yeah, the the options are really endless there.
Kim Rittberg (21:43):
How big is your team for Business Babes Collective?
Danielle Wiebe (21:46):
Yeah, it's such a great question. So I actually, I have one, um, amazing Hannah, she's, she's awesome. She's the only one that works for me, like consistently. And then we, we bring in contractors all the time, so we'll have contractors for example, when we have events we'll bring on contractors, um, for, for specific projects or we'll hire like experts for helping us with the SEO on our website or things that I personally am not talented in. I'm like, I'm just gonna bring in the expert. I'm gonna bring on a contractor here.
Kim Rittberg (22:16):
That's what they say though, you got anything you're not good at, you should bring in someone else. Right? Or you don't. Exactly.
Kim Rittberg (22:21):
I interviewed Rebecca Minkoff that stuck with me. What is the highest and best use of your time? It's like, absolutely, you can know a little bit about seo, but if you're really gonna dive deep, hire someone who can do that for you and make the money that you can make off of the things you're good at and bring in other people. And I remember when I was, it's funny, I was in tv, I was working in TV and I was like getting more senior and I think the idea, I was like, you're so reliant. Like I came from writing and producing and directing. You're reliant on having a good camera person and having a good editor. And I said to my, my friend who's like a mentor and she's an executive producer of tv. I was like, but you're so reliant on other people. Like if the editor doesn't do a good job or if the camera person doesn't do a good job, it makes me stress out cause it's still your fault. And she said, Yeah, but you just have to find good people and trust them. Yeah. And sometimes it doesn't work out, but she's, she said you just have to trust you're hiring good people and that they're gonna do a good job.
Danielle Wiebe (23:17):
Yeah, Yeah.
Kim Rittberg (23:18):
And that, that really like re rejigger my brain. Cause I, I feel like we're all so used to being like self-reliant and independent and that's great, but certain things you have to, you have to have that teamwork attitude or you can't grow because you're not gonna be an expert in seo. Um, every, you know, you're not gonna like whatever the things that you're either not good at or don't like or whatever, um, that's how you grow to, to delegate those things out. And it's in every industry. Um, I think it's hard cause when you're an entrepreneur you do have to do a lot of things at first, but as you grow you have to outsource those
Danielle Wiebe (23:50):
Things. Yeah. And and it's, it's funny because I I I also wanna mention too that, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs, they think their only option to scale is to hire a lot of employees. Which, um, I, you know, I had that moment of like, do I want this like massive team and we're all working and maybe we have an office or whatever. And for me I'm like, you know what, um, I, it has worked so well for me to work with contractors because they are truly experts in their industry.
Kim Rittberg (24:18):
How can entrepreneurs utilize strategic collaborations and partnerships in, in a lot of ways to scale their revenue?
Danielle Wiebe (24:25):
Oh, such a good question. Okay. So when it comes to partnerships and collaboration, the biggest thing that I always recommend for people, because I think people get really caught up in like, Oh, I want to get featured in this massive blog, or I wanna partner with this person who has like millions of followers. Start with where you're at. Like start with who can you collaborate with, who first of all shares your values and really you feel aligned with because trying to partner with someone just because they have a big audience, it's just, it's never gonna be as successful as you think it will be because you really wanna find people who are kind of at your level that who you know, that you can bring value to. So I would say that is the first tip is make sure that when you approach any collaboration, any partnership, whether it's getting in front of their audience or them getting in front of your audience or collaborating and doing something together, like hosting an event together or doing a collaborative photo shoot or hosting a giveaway, right? There's so many different options of what you could do. But I would say when you connect with those people, really figure out what is the benefit? How can this be mutually beneficial? Because if you're pitching it in a way that's just all about you, it's not gonna come across the best. Right? Um, we've all gotten those pitch emails that, you know, feel very spammy and it feels like they don't really care about who you are and what you do. They just want to get in front of your audience. And so
Kim Rittberg (25:59):
Danielle, I I like how like, number one rule on don't be spammy, <laugh>
Danielle Wiebe (26:03):
Spammy. Um, and it's funny because I, I see it so often and you know anyone that also has a community of their own, and I think this is what has allowed me to get really good at it too, is because I see really, really bad pitches and then I see really, really good ones. So it's like figuring out, okay, how can I bring value to that person? Is there something of value, whether it be my expertise? Cuz people always think, Well I don't have an audience, I don't have, I haven't built a community yet. How can I collaborate with these people? You don't have to have any of that. What skills do you have? What can you potentially offer? A really good example that I always give is there was someone who is a, um, a virtual assistant who really wanted to partner with me and really wanted to get in front of my audience.
Danielle Wiebe (26:52):
And so she offered me two free hours of her time where she would just do work for me for free for two hours. I was like, amazing, thank you. And so she worked for us and she was amazing. And so I ended up working with her even more actually and paying her and then referring her to my network. So if you wanna partner with someone, if you want to scale your, your impact, your revenue, all of those things, who is someone who has your ideal audience? Who has the ideal people you wanna get in front of? And how can you bring value to them? And how can you create some sort of a collaboration partnership that benefits both of you at the same time? So that's what I would say.
Kim Rittberg (27:30):
I think that that's really interesting cuz a couple of people have recommended, um, on the show, like Terry Rice's, uh, business development consultant who recommended sometimes at the beginning you might wanna give a reduced rate or I don't know if he said free or someone else recommended free generally don't work for free. Like that's just not a good idea. But when you're starting out you could be working at a discounted rate or you could be working for free for testimonials or an exchange for networking. So I do think what you're saying is great and would you have hired that virtual assistant? Maybe, maybe not. But then you got to see their quality of their work. Exactly. And then you want to recommend them with a sincere recommendation cuz you've worked with them. So I think that's a really smart thing. And I generally, personally, I do programs.
Kim Rittberg (28:10):
So like I do one-on-one consulting projects on content with professionals. I don't generally now do hourly, but sometimes I will. I'm like, okay, I'll do like a session, like a, a batch of sessions with someone cuz like I just wanna help them and I believe in them. Those are also people who can like broaden my network and introduce me to more people. And then they've seen how I work. So they, you know, it's one thing for someone to see you on social media, it's another thing to someone to actually see your work and your skills in person and in action. So I do think that there's a lot of interesting points of view on this and I I like your idea of, you know, really thinking how you could bring value and that value could be in a variety of ways.
Danielle Wiebe (28:49):
Yeah. And I, I do wanna speak on that because I, I do think that, you know, um, it gets a bad reputation of like, oh, never, never work for free. I understand the concept of that if, if, if people are actually not valuing their own work. But if you value your own work, you will know that by giving that you are getting something of value in return. And that's why I say mutually beneficial. It always has to be mutually beneficial. Sometimes you don't know actually where that's gonna lead though. So that's the tricky part. So sometimes you have to take a little bit of a risk where it's like, I'm gonna put myself out there because this is a community that I would love to get in front of. And so that's kind of where it gets a little bit tricky. But that's what I would say, like set those boundaries. So maybe you're going to, you know, maybe if you're in growth mode, you're going to try to do a couple of those partnerships ev uh, every few months. And that's, that's your boundary and, and that's, and that's what's gonna help you to grow. So I agree.
Kim Rittberg (29:48):
Agreed. And I think the other thing is you can also tell that person, this is confidential, please do not tell anyone that I did this work for free. Yes. Because you really don't want it to get around you, You're doing it. So I do think there's, what I like to think of is like, there's a lot of ways to get where you're going. And I think these are great tips to, to think outside the box, you know, to really think about other ways to get in front of people. Um, Yeah. And talk to me about what I, I really, really wanna hear from you about the fastest and most efficient way to get in front of hundreds or thousands of new clients or customers each month.
Danielle Wiebe (30:20):
Yes. Okay. So the biggest tip that I have is it's, it comes back to collaborations. How can you bring value normally for free? So whether that be a, uh, speaking opportunity or, um, a potentially getting on a podcast or pitching yourself to guest write for a blog. So think about your skills, like what are your skills? If you're, if you're really good in front of the camera, could you pitch yourself to be on tv? Right? Like, where can you pitch yourself, where you can get in front of hundreds if not thousands of your ideal clients? And that's where the research comes in to make sure that wherever you are trying to, you know, get that opportunity, it's the right opportunity because you can get in front of hundreds of thousands of people, but if they're not the, your ideal client, it's not going to do anything really for you other than give you experience, which is super valuable on its own.
Danielle Wiebe (31:18):
But it's not gonna, if that's what you're expecting, make sure it's the ideal audience where you're like, These are my people, these are my ideal clients. And show up and give value. And again, it's, it's one of those things where if you consistently show up and give value in front of your ideal clients, there's always gonna be a percentage of those people who will be like, I need to hire that person, or I need to work with that person. I need to be a part of that person's community because you're gonna resonate exactly with them. And so that's, that's my advice.
Kim Rittberg (31:53):
It's interesting because because of mom's exit interview, I've been putting myself out there more, um, on other podcasts and I really just think of it as like, Oh, I just wanna like kind of get the word out about the podcast, but I've been getting clients from it, which is interesting. So just being out there more like, to your point, just being out there more, so often I talk about mom's exit interview show about like the different paths there are for moms and how you can start your own business. But my actual business is advising on content. Like I'm a video expert Yeah. Podcast expert. Like I can help grow a business with content. And so once you start putting yourself out there more, it sort of starts to feed on itself and you end up meeting more people. And I just, there is, I, I think sometimes people are like, Ugh, I'm just like spending all this time on social media.
Kim Rittberg (32:34):
If you reframe it and think of it, this is content marketing. Like there's an entire like, area of business taught in business schools about content marketing. It's a real thing. It's not black hole of social media. It's actually growth for your business. And I think when I think of it like that, I'm like, Oh, this is good. This is fruitful. You know, an hour of your time on a podcast or an hour of your time on Instagram live. Like, you know, you could think of it as content marketing instead of like, Oh, I'm just drowning on social media and just like, you know, doom scroller.
Danielle Wiebe (33:04):
Exactly. And, and exactly. And, and also, yeah, play to strengths. Like some people are amazing writers. I am. I wish that I was a great writer. I'm just not. I really am the worst writer. And that's why it's like, I'm not gonna pitch someone to guest blog on their website. I just won't because I, it won't get me any clients, trust me. Um, so
Kim Rittberg (33:25):
Right off clients will leave <laugh>.
Danielle Wiebe (33:28):
Exactly. So she's like, she, she has so many spelling mistakes, What is happening here? Um, but that's not my strength, right? My strength is in speaking or you know, I can show up on video. I, that doesn't really make me nervous. I love speaking in front of people. And so it's like, figure out what your, what is your strength? What are you good at? Or what could you get good at? Cause if you're like, Well I don't really, I don't, I'm not good at anything, well just try a few things and then eventually you're gonna get good at it. Um, so that's what I would say too, like play to your strengths because that's where you're gonna shine too.
Kim Rittberg (33:57):
Awesome. And talk to me about paid partnerships. Yeah. Affiliate marketing, like super
Danielle Wiebe (34:03):
Fun. Are
Kim Rittberg (34:03):
Those, are those other ways that you recommend people pursuing additional ways to get in front of ideal clients, paid partnerships, affiliate marketing? What are your thoughts on those?
Danielle Wiebe (34:12):
Yeah, so, so it goes both ways, right? So for example, if you are someone who's a content creator, right? And you're creating lots of content, maybe having YouTube channel, maybe you have a podcast or whatever that is, um, then you can, you can actually gain paid partnerships for yourself, for other people to get in front of your audience. Um, so potentially brands that are really aligned or maybe there's products that you already use and love that you could become an affiliate for. So that's actually an extra income stream for yourself. So we do a lot of affiliates as well for products and services we already use and love, we recommend to our community because we talk about it anyways, so why not get a commission on it, right? So there's that. And then there's the opposite where if you're actually wanting to get your product, your service out there more, you can create a affiliate program where other people can be affiliating for your products or services.
Danielle Wiebe (35:10):
Um, this usually works best for like either an online course or a service or, um, you can do it for products as well. Absolutely. But it really depends on like what is gonna be your strategy with that and how can you offer a really good affiliate program. Cuz there's a lot of affiliate programs out there. And so if you're only gonna offer, you know, oh, here's a 10% kickback, no one's gonna actually do that. I, I'm just gonna be completely honest with you. So make it really think about if I was affiliating for a product or service, what would I wanna see in it? And then also ask some of the people that you might wanna be your affiliates, what would they like to see out of it? And so, again, coming back to that mutually beneficial partnership is how can you make it really incentivizing for people?
Danielle Wiebe (35:57):
And then paid partnerships. So maybe you're going to pay, um, someone who has a large community to maybe you're gonna have an ad on their podcast or whatever that is. So how can you actually invest in your own business to get in front of your ideal client? So again, it goes both ways. You can use it in both senses. And, and we've done it both ways too, where we've had affiliates for our program Action Takers Club that have been super successful with other, um, entrepreneurs who have our ideal audience, and then we've been affiliates for other people's as well. So it's worked both ways.
Kim Rittberg (36:30):
So you said, okay, 10% kickback, it's not enough to really incentivize someone. What does a good affiliate partnership look like? If someone were to say, you know, I wanna be an affiliate, I'd love for you to recommend your community to my course.
Danielle Wiebe (36:44):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Kim Rittberg (36:44):
What, what could I offer you that is appealing, that would look good?
Danielle Wiebe (36:49):
Um, the higher percentage, the better. I, I would say like anywhere between 30 to 50% is probably where you wanna be at. And a lot of people are like, Oh my gosh. But that's so much. Think about it this way. If you are getting, especially if it's something that's like a passive product for you, if you are getting people to purchase your product, your service that would never have purchased it in the first place, and it's not costing you much more money for, for having them as a customer, that's where affiliate programs are really successful. If each customer you bring in is gonna cost you more money or it's going to, you know, then that's where it's like, okay, maybe the commission is smaller, but if it's a passive product, then I would say 30 to 50%. I think. I don't think, I don't know that I would look in an affiliate program that was less than 30%. If I'm being completely honest with you.
Kim Rittberg (37:45):
You can find out more about Danielle and the Business Babes Collective on Instagram or on their website, and you should check out their podcast. And that's all linked out in the show notes.
Kim Rittberg (38:04):
Thank you so much for being here. Please follow the show in Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen and leave a five star rating and share it with people who would find it valuable because it's a great show that I put so much work into it and I love getting feedback on what resonated with you. Drop me a note on our website www.kimrittberg.com, or a DM, me on Instagram, wherever, whatever you want. This is Mom's exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Rittberg. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. Jo Leonardo is our editor for this episode, and Aliza Freelander is our producer and Publicist. I'll see you next time.