EP. 24 / Fired At The Top: Heather Monahan on Rising Back Up, How to Overcome Your Villains & Get Rid of Toxic People
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Heather Monahan is a best selling author, a keynote speaker and has an amazing story of being fired from when she was a C-suite executive in radio and how she came back. Heather helps you figure out how to overcome your fears and take action to get where you want in life, discusses how she balances the travel of a lucrative speaking career with parenting her teenager as a single mom. Plus whether you’re avoidant or confrontational, she has tips on how to deal with a toxic work environment.
Plus Kim shares how she’s icing her knee after her attempt to play sports against college level 20-something athletes in hopes of being a good role model for her kids. And in our real mom moment Kelly Siry of the sensational travel social media account for the North Fork of Long Island @nofoendlesssummer shares a story of a very awkward play date!
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Show Takeaways from Zibby Owens:
TIPS TO OVERCOME YOUR FEARS
Beliefs action knowledge framework:
Belief - Deconstruct your belief
Action - Take steps to your goal
Knowledge - Surround yourself w knowledge
HOW TO DEAL WITH A TOXIC ENVIRONMENT
People will treat you the way you teach them to
Ask: Do they treat everyone this way?
Ask: How can I clarify boundaries and show up more powerfully?
SCRIPTS TO TACKLE A TOUGH CONVERSATION AT WORK, TO HELP THEM OPEN UP MORE
“I’m confused, when you speak to me like this…”
“Am I misreading something?”
“Help me understand…”
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EPISODE LINKS:
Heather Monahan Heather’s book Overcome Your Villains
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim Rittberg (00:01):
Fired when you're at the top, Heather Monahan has a story to tell. She was a C R O winning awards flying high, then she was blindsided and she'll tell you what she did after that moment. And she has tips on how to achieve what you really want in life, how to get away from toxic environments, and how to stop holding yourself back. Oh yes, please.
This is mom's exit interview, the show for moms who wanna craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational moms across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms. And they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness, to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses. They're taking back control. Join me and make work work for you instead of the other way around.
Big news for Coach Kim <laugh>. Yes, I've been coaching my second grade daughter's soccer team. It was very scary at first. I was really hesitant to say yes. She asked me to be her coach. You see, I'm not like a soccer star, but I played sports as a kid throughout high school. I played volleyball and lacrosse pretty intensely. So I figured, you know what? I feel like it's more about where to be on the field and somebody else can sort of really help them with those dribbling skills. And I have a lot of energy and enthusiasm. So I was like, I'm going to be there coach. Sure. But my daughter is extremely bright, very sweet and caring, but also sensitive. And I know that all parents see this where how kids place you is teacher is on one side of a metal wall like a fortress wall.
And parent is on the other side. For any of you who've tried to teach their kids stuff, I'm sure throughout the pandemic it can be challenging. I have always found it challenging. Same thing with coach. Coach is on this side of the wall, parent is here. So I was very worried that me being her coach would create resentment and then in the end I would regret it and we would be fighting. So the first few games honestly we're rough. There were tears. But throughout the season I have truly seen her blossom and grow. I was really concerned. The reason we did this is the growth mindset skills. I've really wanted her to handle failure, learn how to lose gracefully. I mean, sure, getting e energy out at and being physical great, but it was really more about the growth mindset. Speaking of foot skills and strategy, by the way, the season was pretty great because it went from nine kids being pretty much paper clips magnetized to a metal ball, rolling all over the field with all the kids following it to actually a soccer game. And it was really cool to see all the kids do so much better and be so much more confident and understand how to play. So that was exciting. And a few dads even complimented our team's strategy and said we were well coached. So a dad compliment on sports is pretty big.
And this is a huge moment like huge parenting win. Pretty much parenting win of the year. On the second to last game, my daughter was in goalie and she was scored on. She was very upset. I could see her about to start crying. She cried a little bit. She started walking off the field. I came, I walked over to her. I said, of course it stinks to get scored on. Nobody likes that. But you know what, that ball went through four other people and it's a team effort. It's not just your fault. And then she still was thinking about walking off and I said, if you really leave the field now, your team will definitely lose. If they play one person down, your team's going to lose. I wasn't mean about it, I just said it very calmly. If she breathes deeply, she composed herself.
Not only did she stay on the field, she whammed a ball down the field. She kicked it really hard. And this kid who plays offense dribbles it up the field and scores. So not only did she stay on the field, she helped the team win the game. And I, I cannot explain how proud I was, like my heart was going to burst outta my chest. I made her to tell her how big a deal it was, how the five year old or six year old version of her would've never stayed on the field, would've ran off and never come back. So this is why I did it. I mean, this is why I've been waking up early for 12 weeks for that moment of growth for her and that parenting win for me. Anyway, I support you guys and I love all your positive notes.
So I'm sharing you a positive moment of my own. Anyway, we're about to get into Heather Monahan and please, if you enjoy the show, tell a friend, word of mouth is everything. Drop a five star rating, review and follow the show. It helps it reach more ears. And now we're going to talk to Heather Monahan. She was one of the few women to break the glass ceiling and claim her spot in the C-suite as a chief revenue officer in media. She got a glass ceiling award. She was named one of the most influential women in radio in 2017 and Thrive Global named her at Limit Breaking female founder in 2018. But I love her story because it's not just about her being at the top. Heather is a bestselling author and she has an incredible story of being fired. When she was really crushing it in her corporate job, suddenly she was fired. And that's the beginning of her real story. She's going to talk to you about what her story is. She's going to bring you through that and how to deal with a toxic environment that is close to home for so many of us.
And she has great tips on How to get where you wanna be.
Heather Monahan (06:03):
So I started in the wine business when I graduated college. It was funny, I was really strategic. I was a bartender. I worked all through school. I had grown up four. So I'd been working since I was nine years old. And I remember thinking, who drives the nice BMWs and Mercedes that are in the parking lot? And it was always salespeople. So I thought, okay clearly I need to be a salesperson. That was my strategy. And it worked out well. I got into the wine business right outta college. I became the top salesperson the first year and got in this whole situation where I started getting sexually harassed at work. So I quit that job and I went to an event and met this guy, started chatting him up and he offered me a job to go work for him. He was in the radio business.
So I kind of stumbled into the radio business, started off as a salesperson, became the top salesperson my first year, and my boyfriend cheated on me. And I went to work the next day, a disaster. And my boss said, do you wanna be really rich? And I said, oh yeah, I wanna be really rich. And he said, then why don't you jump on a plane with me? I'm going to make you my partner and I'm going to make you a very rich young lady. I was maybe 23 years old at the time. And I said, because I had just been cheated on. I said, okay, I would've never ever done this. And we bought a 25 million company and it was my job to accelerate revenues as rapidly and quickly as I could so we could sell the company for a profit. So under three years, I sold that company for 55 million and netted us almost 30 million, which of course he took a much larger share than I did.
Kim Rittberg (07:35):
Heather then went on to run a division of a company in Naples, Florida and was promoted and promoted until being named the Chief revenue Officer.
Heather Monahan (07:44):
And then three weeks after, I was named one of the most influential women in radio in the end of 2017, I was fired when the founder became ill and he elevated his daughter to replace him.
Kim Rittberg (07:58):
So you're doing such an amazing job. Get outta here, you're fired.
Heather Monahan (08:04):
That was a shocking moment for sure.
Kim Rittberg (08:06):
So what year are we talking about?
Heather Monahan (08:08):
That was the end of 2017
Kim Rittberg (08:11):
And so you'd have been a very senior person in radio specifically sales. So bringing in a lot of money, really earning people a lot of money. And then when you were at the top, then you were fired, what next? How did you feel? How did you handle that?
Heather Monahan (08:23):
Yeah, I had a, which meant I had to leave the industry that I had 20 plus years expertise in for at least 18 months. So that was what made it so hard because it wouldn't have been that hard if I could have just gone across the street and buried that company, that would've been easy and I would've enjoyed it. However, God had bigger plans for me. So I had to really get quiet with myself and think about, okay, right now is that moment. If there's anything out there you've ever been thinking of doing, this is the moment to do it. And I decided first to post, I've just been fired and no one was calling me. And so I put this post up on social media, it went viral. And that landed me on the Elvis Duran show. And when I was on the Elvis Duran show, halfway through that interview he said, well Heather, obviously you're writing a book.
But I wasn't writing a book. I had never thought of writing a book. I had only ever thought of sales and sales leadership. And he just had this conviction and this belief that was so powerful. He spoke a truth into me. And I said, you're right. I am writing a book. And I held myself accountable in front of his 10 million listeners. And then I jumped on a plane and I Googled, how do you write a book? And it basically said, you just have to write daily. And I thought, well, I've got some free time. So I took the next five months and I wrote my first and self-published my first book. Confidence Creator.
Kim Rittberg (09:50):
First of all, I think I wanna go back. Oh, we talked so much about your aha moment in people when they decide to make a change. How were you feeling internally? I imagine it's such a blow to your self-esteem and to your experience, your resume to have such a huge job and then just get fired. How low were you feeling? What were you feeling like? Well,
Heather Monahan (10:12):
What's interesting is that I didn't know it, but I had been basing a lot of my self-confidence on my job title, my responsibilities, my team, my paycheck, how I was proceeds in an industry. I had made it so high that a lot of people had looked up to me. And I also was looking up to that persona, not really dealing with who I was, but looking at all these exterior things. And when you allow your self-worth to be dependent upon things outside of you, you're screwed. And so I hit rock bottom when that happened cuz I felt it all had been taken from me overnight and my confidence was gone. So that was a really hard scary time. I mean, I was definitely hitting the panic button. I am a single mother. I'm not independently wealthy. I had built up success, but I knew I was going to have to use that money now as basically my runway to whatever I was going to do next. And I didn't know how long that would take. And it was just stepping. I felt like I was going from a world that was so well lit and clear to me and I knew so well to basically stumbling around in the dark and it was very hard.
Kim Rittberg (11:24):
And so you have this big announcement on LinkedIn, then you go on Elvis Duran. And I like that answer. It's when someone asks me like, oh, would you like to be on TV tonight to talk about of course. It doesn't matter what I'm doing. Absolutely. I'm writing that book that you just told me. I'm writing, I'm the same way. I'm like, of course I will. So talk to me about did you have a social media following on LinkedIn when you decided to write and sell this book? I think a lot of people see, okay, I can see being a successful corporate executive because you work hard and there's a hierarchy and you make it. So when you decided to go all in on building back your confidence, writing a book, did you have a big presence on LinkedIn? What was it like then?
Heather Monahan (12:10):
Nothing like I do now. I mean nothing. And it's funny, I go back sometimes to remind myself how far I've come and why that next goal needs to be bigger and I need to push myself more. Back then, I think I had 10,000 social media followers. So it was not substantial by any stretch of the imagination. And I had no idea how my book would be received. I didn't know anything about selling books. I had no expertise or knowledge and I was self-publishing. So it was just kind of about this unknown. I knew I wanted to build or I needed to build a personal brand and aggressively pursue that, but it wasn't established yet at that point in time.
Kim Rittberg (12:54):
So then how do you take the next steps? How do you, I don't wanna say recreate, you're always, you we're always us, but how do you create your second act, this big successful moment for yourself? What are the steps?
Heather Monahan (13:06):
You just look at it as the next step? So for me then I googled, how do you sell books? Cause I didn't know. And it said, you need to speak. And I thought, great. I've been speaking for 20 years in corporate America. That's easy. So I started cold calling companies, action steps are really important. And so I would call companies and pitch myself and say, if you buy my book, I'll come in and speak for free for your company. And then eventually one day a company said, well what's your speaker fee? And I googled speaker fees and I saw that Gary Vaynerchuk in 2018 was getting $350,000 for a 60 minute keynote. And that's when I said, stop Heather, this is the business you need to get into. And so then I went down that all in on the speaking business. And then I got to interview Sarah Blakely live on stage in front of thousands of people. My speaking business blew up and then the pandemic hit and everything came to a halt and I had to start all over again.
Kim Rittberg (14:03):
Wow. So much happening. Okay, so first of all, I have a question. You had said earlier that your goal was to be rich to find money, which makes sense cuz if you grow up not having money, that is a very important goal. Would you say that's still your goal?
Heather Monahan (14:20):
No, no, no, for sure. I mean I've made G great money in my career when I was in corporate America. But I did it with this emptiness around me that I always was trying to pursue charity work outside of work because there wasn't a lot of me, my job was to make rich people richer, the shareholders richer. And so for me, I realized there was always something missing when I was in that role. Didn't mean I didn't like my job or I wasn't good at it, but I was always trying to fulfill that give back piece and it just took more time outta my life. So now today, what I'm grateful for and I stumbled into this, I didn't know this was going to be what I was going to do, but now I, I'm so lucky that every day I get messages from people hearing how my books change their life or my podcast or my speech or whatever content I'm creating is impacting them in such a meaningful and positive way and I'm paid to do it. So to me that's, that's the secret sauce there is finding something that you're really purposely giving back and making the world a better place. And you can make an income that leveraging your talents and your unique skills, finding a way to bring all that together is that's the real goal.
Kim Rittberg (15:35):
No, it really is so true cuz I think you're right. Once you say, oh wait this, you know, were sort of forced to say, well now wow, what's next? What do I wanna do? What am I excited about? And then you end up finding this other part which is not only lucrative but also gets to help other people in a way that even when you're really successful, I mean it's like, it's a real stretch to say we're helping people. I've been in corporate America. So it's great to be able to marry that together, to be able to make that work.
Heather Monahan (16:06):
It wasn't easy to figure it out. I will tell you that much. And it definitely, even still today, I'm approached by different potential partners. I have different ideas of products I wanna generate. And it's always now I'm a rookie at being an entrepreneur. I don't have 20 plus years experience doing this. I have a few years. So it's all about, okay, is that the right move? Should I create an app in a community next? Should I work on this product that I'm trying to get on qvc? What does that next right thing and what does that look like? And then figuring out what are the hacks that make it happen faster? And it's definitely a lot of trial and error and a lot of fails.
Kim Rittberg (16:43):
And you said it was writing that first book that sort of turned your whole career around to being this very successful salesperson's c r O level executive to now being an author, a motivational speaker, a podcast host. Was it that it was that first book that made the pivot?
Heather Monahan (17:01):
Yeah, that was the first tangible thing that I created that I could touch, that I could sell for revenue, that I could say, wait a minute, this looks nothing like what I used to do. This is showing me what's possible. And then that started lead leading me down this completely new trajectory.
Kim Rittberg (17:18):
It's so interesting cuz I've talked to a lot of people both on this podcast and in life, being from media that books either a book does really, really well and it's sort of creates this whole new career or industry for someone or it's like a thing to get you credibility to then get paid speaking gigs or to get other things. So it's interesting that that book really was the thing that pivoted you. Cuz it can have different things, it can be different things for different people, it can be a different goal, it could be a different outcome. So I think that's just interesting
Heather Monahan (17:49):
And you're just not going to know until you go down the path and try it. Right. And it's just all about taking the chance, hey I have no idea what's going to come from this. But I always try to lower the expectation of myself and just say if it's going to help or impact one person in a positive way, it's worth me putting the effort towards it.
Kim Rittberg (18:06):
Absolutely. I need to hear all about your book in a second. First I wanna hear about you have a son.
Heather Monahan (18:11):
I do. I have a 15 year old son.
Kim Rittberg (18:13):
So talk to me about being a mom, being a single mom and balancing, I am always like, okay, show me your calendar. How do you balance, not just balance but when you're working a lot, but obviously we're all parents and that's a big part of our life. So what does your schedule look like?
Heather Monahan (18:31):
Oh my gosh, it's crazy. The toughest part, which is funny, it was awful during the pandemic cuz we were stuck at home together in a two bedroom condo. He was on virtual school and I was doing all speaking virtually and coaching virtually and everything was virtual and I'm an extrovert. So that was again, first world, world problems, not living our best life but whatever. We got through it. And I spent more time with my son in two years than we literally were together 24 7, which was good and bad. However, cut to now and live events are back, which is so exciting. But now I have to find people to help me and to take care. So life is just a juggle. There's beautiful things, like amazing opportunities to go get paid to speak for corporations in Hawaii. I just was on a phone with a client, I'm going to go speak for them in Hawaii and I'm so excited.
But in the back of my mind I'm like, shoot, that's going to be multiple days of travel. That's not like quick to New York. I'm back. I've gotta find someone that can come stay at my house. And so there is this juggle and it's, it's not easy, but success isn't easy If you pursuing your dreams isn't easy. None of this stuff is easy but it's worth it in the end. And I just think to myself, the more I show up as that real version of me taking the chances saying to my son, I don't have the answer for right now, but I am focused on finding it and I know we can find it. I just moved, I mentioned this to you just a couple of weeks ago and during the move it was an overwhelming time because for 17 years I hadn't purged through my old stuff.
And right now I was trying to get rid of so much stuff and coordinate getting out of one place to get into the new place. And of course my son still had school and whatnot. And during that time I got a DM from Dr. Phil's team saying, Hey, we need you on the show, can you be here next week? And I just remember thinking, okay, if the universe is bringing me opportunities, I'm always going to be the guy that raises our hand and says I'm all in. And so I had no idea how I was going to figure it out with the move, but I just said yes. And then I focused on what could the solution be? And I asked for help. My friend came over and helped me unpack for a day. My other friend took my son for a couple of days and I prayed.
I had a speaking engagement for a big company back in Miami the next day I just prayed that my flights would work. And luckily it all worked out, but it's definitely hectic and my lifestyle is not for everyone, I would say for sure because it is a little intense. But I don't know. I know that I'm living, I'm walking that right path that I'm meant to. I don't know exactly what that next step will be or that next season's going to be like for me. But I have this knowing and this belief in what I'm doing and I get so excited watching it unfold.
Kim Rittberg (21:13):
And what does your calendar look like broadly? How much do you travel? I think feel like that's hard cuz I recently got booked for a speaking gig. I was like, oh my God, yes. And I look at my calendar, I say to my husband, oh my god, that's in the middle of spring break. But the answer is, of course I'm still doing this gig. This is exactly what I've, I announced to at least my family and friends. I didn't put it out on social media, but I was like, I'd like to start doing paid speaking gigs. That's something I want. And of course it comes out, not the most ideal time and whatever, but I'm like, of course I'm going to take this opportunity. And the last week I got a text message from someone, would you like to be on Ashley Banfield's cable news show tonight at 10:30? I'm like, of course we were at a dinner until 9:45 at a huge video shoot at 8:00 AM the next day. I'm like, of course I would like to do that. And the answer is, you always just say yes and you figure it out. So I love that. And I do wanna hear from you how much travel is in your schedule.
Heather Monahan (22:11):
Well it's interesting because the speaking business prior to Covid, people were booking so far out you, you'd be booked for things over a year in advance. It's very different now. I just took an inquiry from my website and this is for an event happening next month. Last week I got booked for something in December. There's not enough runway yet to project how much travel. But it goes back to when you know can always say yes or you can say no, right? I was offered a speaking engagement for this weekend and I have a wedding that I'm going to the wedding wins. These are some of my best friends. You just make decisions based on what works for you. But that constantly changes and evolves. And I keep asking, oh my gosh, I really need to find someone like a college student that can come stay at my home with my son. So I'm going to find that person. And once I find that person, my situation is going to be so much easier. So it's just figuring out what does that look like? What potential solution can I find?
Kim Rittberg (23:10):
And your son's going to have a ball. I feel like my daughter loves older cool kids. I'm like, yes, teenagers, come on in. Everyone's welcome here. Any work-life balance tips you'd give to other moms or other single moms?
Heather Monahan (23:21):
I mean, ask for help. Nobody knows you're struggling. If you don't raise your hand and tell them. I'm always surprised by, I'll have dinner with a girlfriend or whatever and I'll talk about, oh, I didn't know who I could call. Say you call me, what are you talking about? And I thought, oh gosh, I didn't even think of calling you. You're why? I need to write a list out of all these people that tell me, you know what, I don't travel Heather. I have a husband. I'm here. Let, all you have to do is call. You can drop 'em off anytime. So sometimes it's just remembering who those people are and then just asking. There's nothing wrong with asking people if they're busy, they'll say no. Right. And that's okay too. And you respect that and you move on. But it's just the most important thing is just to let people know you need the help.
Kim Rittberg (24:02):
My mom said something once, she said, people like to be needed. And for sure, I hate asking, I'm like, like I don't like to ask people for things. But then I started thinking about it. I think when I'm helping someone, people feel good when they're helping. So you're actually giving them an opportunity. I just thought, oh, I just reframed that <laugh>
Heather Monahan (24:20):
Giving them a gift. Absolutely. That they're needed and maybe they're going to really enjoy having your child around their child. So yeah, it can be a really positive situation.
Kim Rittberg (24:29):
And you've had such an incredible story of having this big career and then getting fired, but now you have this other amazing second act and are you happy?
Heather Monahan (24:38):
I mean, happy is such an interesting word. I would say I find joy in every day. Yeah, there's pressure, I'm not going to lie, coming out of the pandemic and then things changing so quickly. It's all a juggling act and trying to forecast and plan ahead. I've just learned, I used to be big into, I'm planning five and 10 years. I don't do that anymore because it just, things change so quickly. So I've had to change who I am as a person because that safety and security of the plan doesn't really apply to my life anymore. So I've had to learn to get okay with that, which that was a big transition for me cuz I was feeling nervous all the time. So yeah, I'm joyful. I love what I do. I'm grateful for what I do. But there is still that unknown piece that I'm constantly having to step into fear. I'm constantly having to step into unknown where that's new in my life. When I was in corporate America, I wasn't stepping into fear. I wasn't stepping into unknown. So there was less pressure in many ways. So I guess it's how you define happiness to me, showing up and doing work that I feel like is making a difference in people's lives. That makes me so joyful. That makes me so grateful. And that tells me I'm on that right path. But yeah, there's more pressure too. So I, I guess it's how you define happy.
Kim Rittberg (25:58):
Great. Okay, I need to hear about this book. Overcome Your Villains, mastering your Beliefs, actions and Knowledge to Conquer Any adversity. I love this description. Your book helps readers evaluate and eliminate any outside or self-defeating blockers between where you are now and where you deserve to be. I love that. I feel like who doesn't need that? So tell me a little bit about that. What are the things readers walk away from? What are the tips in that area?
Heather Monahan (26:25):
So I guess a couple of years ago, one of my mentors, I was on the phone with him and I was saying to him, what am I missing? What could I get better at? What do you see that I'm not maximizing it? And he said, you don't have a process. He said, you have it but you haven't declared it. Identified it and shared it. And I thought that's interesting. He said, so go back throughout your life and find out how did you become the number one salesperson at Gallo your first year? How did you become the number one salesperson in radio? How did you get promoted so fast? Look at all these different times and say, what is the theme that I've been implementing here? And what, it took me a while to figure that out. Cause I basically went to a whiteboard and started mapping all these things out and it wasn't clear at first.
However, I did become clear over time. And so it's a three step process that I share in my new book, which is called My Back Process, beliefs, action and Knowledge. And that first step is all around beliefs. And that can be the belief that you're holding within your head. It can be the belief that someone else is imparting on you. It can be the story that you're telling yourself from your childhood, but it's about deconstructing whatever belief you're holding. So I'll use the example of getting fired. The day that I got fired, I had this belief, I've lost everything. I just lost everything, right? So when you deconstruct that belief, you have to say, did I lose my health? No. Did I lose my family? No. Did I lose my business acumen? No. Did I lose my business network? No. Did I lose lose my talent?
No. Did I lose anything? Oh, I lost a paycheck. So once I distilled that belief down to the most simplistic shred of fact and often there's no fact factual basis at all which, and then you have to let it go and give yourself a better belief to hang onto. But once I distilled it down, that wasn't hard of a pill to swallow cause I had found different paychecks in my life. So it's getting everything down to what is actual truth. Then number two, immediately take action. Once you distill the belief, you've gotta move quickly and take action. A lot of women get hung up here. Don't overthink do done will always be better than perfect. So for me, that example is put the post up on social media. I've just been fired If I've ever helped you, I need to hear from you now. So number three is knowledge.
Surround yourself from a very intentional standpoint with people who are where you wanna be. Don't take advice and direction from people who haven't been where you're going. And listen, that can be through TED Talks, that can be through books, podcasts, that can be through any type of content you're accessing. It doesn't just have to be from a conversation with someone or a mentor, but it can be. But really intentional that you're getting that support and guidance and knowledge from the people that you really want to. Don't just kind of fall into it. Don't call your mother when you've been fired asking for business advice. If she was a stay-at-home mom her whole life, that's not the person to call. So it's all about being really intentional about where you're going and surrounding yourself with the best knowledge possible.
Kim Rittberg (29:26):
I laugh, you'll hear me, my laughter of recognition cuz I think that it's sort of a stereotype, but kind of true. It's a lot of women, we feel like we need to have every single answer in place to do the next thing. And it's like, would a man think that? Would a man say that? You have to just think, do you know enough? Can you do this next step and you don't need, I'm the same way. I'm like, well I don't know these five things. Well, when I ran a 17 person team, I only knew 70% of the job and I learned the other 30%. You never know everything. And I think that that can hinder our action. So I love that that's in there cuz some of it's the mental block, but then it's the physical thing. Just start going, just move forward. So I love that. I think that that's something that resonates with a lot of people of feeling like you need to over prepare and have the MBA or the this and that. And it's like, no, you don't. Just start doing it. Just start going and then the world will teach you whether it's welcome, start getting feedback when you start putting yourself out there.
Heather Monahan (30:23):
Exactly. And I was just on a call earlier today with the C-Suite executive and he was telling me he's in his sixties, super, super successful in the finance business. And he was saying that he remembers being in his thirties when he was first elevated to a director role and other people saying, oh you'll not going to make it. You'll be outta here fast. And him doubting himself and saying, was I really qualified enough to be in this position. He said, what I've learned now 30 years later, you're never qualified enough in the position. That's the move. You've gotta move into it before you're qualified. So you learn on the job. That's how it works. We've just been told the opposite for so long by people who are jealous or insecure or have their own issues. It's all about saying, wait a minute, this is the process, this is the growth.
Kim Rittberg (31:06):
Absolutely. And I, I'd love for you to expand on this about how to deal with or overcome a toxic environment, whether at work or at home or in your own head. What advice do you have for people that are in toxic environments?
Heather Monahan (31:19):
Oh my gosh. First and foremost, people will treat you the way you teach them to. So what I recommend people is look at that person that's treating you in a way that is not acceptable, number one, and say, does this person treat everyone this way? Because there's going to be people that they don't. So now once you've identified this person, let's say they would never treat Jill that way. She was so kind to Jill, then you need to start channeling your inner Jill, right? You've gotta start saying, how can I show up differently and how can I be more powerful? How can I clarify boundaries? How can I ask for what I need? Number two, I would say sit down with that person and have a very candid conversation and let them know what you need. So often we think that everyone knows what we need and we just assume that they do.
They might not even be aware. It might be such a routine for them to treat someone badly. They don't even think about it. It, it's not even conscious to them. So let them know, this doesn't work for me the way you've been speaking to me. Here's what I need. Is that something that you can do? Have not a confrontational fight, but just have a very clear direct conversation. And then if that person comes back and says, no, I treat you the way I treat you well, that's when you need to go to somebody else to say, I need to be moved from this team. This is not going to work for me. Once you've heard that that person's not going to change the way that they treat you, then no, you've gotta move off that team. And if you can't find a way at that company to move off the team, then you gotta find another company to go to.
Kim Rittberg (32:45):
I love that. I like how you were flagging the idea of it doesn't have to be confrontational. I'm very avoidant and I've had some situations with colleagues that I actually had to say, Hey I've noticed there's been some friction. Is there something going on? Is there something we could be doing differently? And then they were like, oh, there was, well actually maybe you could do this way that would be easier for us. We're more planners and you're more spontaneous. I was like, okay, great. And I feel like I came at it from a non-confrontational point of view. I mean, in my head I was like, why is this person being so rude? But I came into that room not in a confrontational manner and I do not love conversations like that. But it's an important thing to know how to do. And you have to be able to do that or to grow both, especially in corporate America as a manager and as a person.
But in life. I mean, if you avoid every hard conversation, you'd never grow. And you're in the same capability mindset that you had at 22. And that's not good for anyone. But I like how like, well, if I'm as avoided as I was at age 22, well I'm not doing much for myself or my family or my business. But I like how you were saying in that it doesn't have to be confrontational. Cause I think that that's what people think of when they think, oh, this person's being harsh to me. It's going to be this big fight and maybe it won't be.
Heather Monahan (34:02):
So h here's a couple of tips that I share in my book actually. If you're walking into a situation, you're afraid that I don't wanna be perceived confrontational, which listen, it's up to that person how they're going to perceive you. That's not your problem. However, some approaches that work pretty well are number one, this is my favorite. I always say I'm confused, right? Because basically you're saying to someone, maybe this is my fault. Maybe I'm not reading this correctly. So I'm confused when you speak to me like that. It doesn't feel the same way. That is when I speak to other people on the team, is there something that you wanna say to me? Am I misreading something? What's going on? So I'm confused… is a great way to open a difficult conversation. Another one is, help me understand. Help me understand what's going on.
I feel like there's something between you and I have no idea what it is. I would love to repair this and find a way to move forward. Do you feel the same way? What's going on? So those are two really good approaches where you're not saying to someone, here's what you did. You're not accusing someone, you're trying to get them to empty their glass to you. Cause they might say, yes, I'm glad that you came in here and asked, here's going on. I've got major problems at home. Can't, I'm overwhelmed. I'm taking it out on you. And you know what, I guess I didn't realize. You don't know what's going to happen until they empty their glass and are truthful and honest with you. So try to give them that grace to do that.
Kim Rittberg (35:27):
And also, if you are doing something that is creating friction that maybe you're not aware of, great. Let that person say it. And then also, the last thing I find is very interesting is then you also I don't wanna say defang them, but you sort of take that ability away from them to treat you badly afterwards because now it's at that point, it's really just embarrassing for them. If you've said to them, Hey, I feel like there's friction. Is something going on? Is there communication gap? And then they're like, no, no, no, it's fine. Then they go into a meeting and treat you like garbage that's on them. I mean, that's just embarrassing. You look like the hero trying to have a grownup conversation. Then they look like the child. So I think that that's also another thing is it sets up that next step of being like, okay, I did what I needed to do and this is not going the right direction. Exactly. And it talk to me. I know one of the things you talk a lot about is not giving up. And I think that that's a great lesson for all of us. And you've had this really, really striking, what do you call it? Knock down from the topic. You were in such a great position and you felt super low. What advice do you have for someone who's feeling down?
Heather Monahan (36:34):
I mean, number one, who are you surrounding yourself with that that's just so critical because whether it's negative thoughts in your own head or people that are putting you down, and this is why I'm big to fire your villains. The day that woman thought she fired me, I fired my number one villain from my life. It was incredible what started happening in my life. The magic that started showing up in my life because I didn't blocked by a negative person. So unblock yourself, number one, whoever that is, whether it's a sneaky friend, whether it's your negative tape that you're running, rewrite that tape, whether it be a romantic relationship or negative people at work, you have got to fire those villains. I had a friend message me this weekend and he has been in a negative workplace environment working for a negative boss for four years.
And he's messaging me yesterday and he's saying, oh, only a year left on the contract. And I'm thinking to myself, I've told him countless times, leave the job you need to quit. There's no mincing words here. You will not find happiness. You won't find those gifts and blessings and opportunities until you fire that negative person in your space. Right? And if you choose not to, don't wonder why you're not happy. Don't wonder why you're down. That is why, right? So to me it's such a powerful, it's a really powerful move that you can make to get yourself out of a funk. Another thing is building momentum and that domino effect taking action. You've gotta get out there and take steps to make things happen. You can't just assume things are just going to fall into your life. Yes, it's great to declare an intention and to pray to God and to put it out to the universe what you want to happen.
But you've also gotta get up and take some swings at things and say, I don't know what's going to happen with this, but I'm going to go for it. I'm going to pitch this person. I'm going to pitch these 500 people, whatever it may be. But to get up and start taking action to build that momentum for yourself. And then doors will start opening, opportunities will start arriving. But you have to step into that unknown and be responsible and accountable and to accountability. Tell someone that you love that is your cheerleader. Hey, here's what I'm working on. I'm afraid I'm not going to actually do it. Let's give myself a deadline. Let's sit down. Let's once a week you and I get together. I need you to hold me accountable to this. I go to social media and say, oh, I'm working on my third book. I let social media hold me accountable. Cuz then people will DM me and ask me, what's going on with that? What happened? Right? So it's like I reverse put pressure on myself so that I make sure I follow through.
Kim Rittberg (38:56):
I love that. I'd be like, just kidding. I never wrote that. Delete that post <laugh>. Just kidding. That didn't happen.
Kim Rittberg (39:04):
Thank you so much, Heather. That was awesome. If you wanna hear more, check out her podcast, creating Confidence with Heather Monahan. Her website is heathermonahan.com. And her book is Overcome Your Villains Mastering Your Beliefs, actions, and Knowledge to conquer any adversity. Get ready for our Real Mom moment. This one is from Kelly Siri. She runs a travel blog and social media agency catering to businesses on the North Fork of Long Island in New York. Kelly runs a social handle called Nofo Endless Summer, which is amazing tips of what to do in that area while also being a stay-at-home mom. She and I met at a parenting event and I was impressed with all that she is juggling. Here is her cute story.
Kelly Siry (39:51):
Today I wanna talk to you a little bit about finding mom friends. We all know how difficult it can be, and when you find somebody who you click with, you wanna hold onto them. Let's rewind back to Covid. We had been in isolation for a few months and my daughter and I were pretty socially starved. We were at the beach one day when we ran into a mom and her daughter of similar age to my daughter. We played at the beach for a few hours. We chatted, we laughed. We really enjoyed each other's company. We exchanged numbers with the promise of meeting up again. When suddenly my daughter turns to the little girl and says something about Jesus and poor people, with a look of terror in my eyes, I turn to the other mom and say, I promise we are not crazy religious fanatics. The mom seemed to doubt what I was saying. Then my daughter quickly made a redemption by saying, and Kamala Harris is going to be the next female vice president who we almost blew it. <laugh> the mom and I still laugh about it to this day. I hope you all have found Mom friends who you click with in this way.
Kim Rittberg (41:13):
You could find Kelly at NoFo Endless Summer on Instagram. And if you wanna submit your real mom moment, make sure to sign up for our newsletter. Or you can visit www.kimrittberg.com.
Thank you you so much for listening. We wanna hear from you. Tell us what topics you want us to cover and what questions you have for upcoming shows and experts. We will read everyone and we will use them. You can find us everywhere. Go to www.kimrittberg.com, scroll down to find the contact button, or you can DM me on Instagram at Kim Rittberg. Or you can leave your feedback right inside your review in the podcast app. Please follow the show in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen and leave a review in a five star rating. And don't forget to share it with people who will find it valuable. It's truly meant to be a resource. And this is Mom's Exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer Kim Ritrberg. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. John Haitz is our editor, and Eliza Friedlander is our producer and publicist.