EP. 39 / Former Co-Host Of The View & GMA Co-Anchor Paula Faris On Being Pushed Out Of A Job, Her Identity Crisis And Advocating For Working Moms
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Are you tired of the way that workplaces treat mothers?
Paula Faris is an Emmy award-winning journalist and author who helps moms ditch the
guilt and find a better way forward. She shares how when she advocated for herself at work so she could be there more for her children, she was pushed out of her job. Paula is also the founder of CARRY Media which provides free resources and content for working moms. She believes that when workplaces support mothers more, everyone benefits.
Paula also discusses the high levels of burnout that moms feel and why some moms are scared to leave the workplace.
Plus Caitlin Meister, the founding director of The Greer Meister Group, shares a success story from her business.
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In this episode you will learn from Paula Faris:
-How mothers are not valued in the workplace
-The hold mom guilt can have over you
-Being at the top of your career and realizing it’s not what you want
-Why women should be partnering with men to make changes in the workplace
Show Takeaways:
-How other countries are valuing their mothers in the workplace more
-Your skills as a mother have equipped you to do your job
-Advocating for the balance you need
Quotes:
”When I had stepped away from those titles I didn’t know who I was. I had an identity
crisis I didn’t know who I was outside of it.”
“My true worth and value wasn’t tied to a job.”
“We need to know our worth, and we need to advocate for our worth.”
“Your work does not define you, it really doesn't and you're going to be called to different things in different seasons.”
Advice on Advocating for yourself in the workplace
-Ask for a more flexible schedule
-Let your employer know how this will make you a better employee
-Partner with men
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EPISODE LINKS:
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim Rittberg (00:02):
If you're the parent of a college bound student, you're probably feeling mixed emotions right now As acceptance letters and financial aid offers arrive ick and proud of your student, but also stressed, thinking about how you're going to pay for it all. Take my advice and check out college AV student loans. They are the emotional support system to guide you through the college journey from start to finish. With College Ave, you'll get free access to tools and resources that make the financial road to college easier. Like their student loan calculator that lets you see how a future loan can work for you and your budget. Plus, every month they give away a thousand dollars scholarship to one lucky family. Entering is fast and easy and winning could have a big impact on your college expenses. Visit college ave.com/exit interview. Trust me, it's a better student loan experience. There's no purchase necessary to enter or win the scholarship. See official contest rules for details@collegeave.com slash exit Interview former co-anchor of Good Morning America and the View Paula Ferris is here. She talks about leaving a prestigious career and losing her job during the pandemic.
Paula Faris (01:09):
When I'd stepped away from those titles, I didn't know who I was. I had a identity crisis. I didn't know who I was outside of it.
Kim Rittberg (01:15):
She'll talk about how she got through it and what she's doing now.
(01:21):
This is Mom's exit interview, the show for moms who want to craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational moms across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms, and they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim RIT Bird. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses. They're taking back control. Join me and make work work for you instead of the other way around.
(02:24):
Super important but quick favor. Please tell two people to listen to the show. That is how us Indie podcasters grow. And please hit the follow button and drop a rating in a review. Speaking of growing, if you're growing a business and feel like ah, about making video content to promote it and you're looking for a blueprint that helps you grow your business in a way that's easier, more fun with no burnout, grab my free tips on my website. Kim rit.com. R I T T B E R G. That's also linked out in the show notes. I wanted to share with you a recent parenting win. My daughter really dislikes performing in front of people and we recently did family karaoke at a diner near us in Brooklyn where I live, and there were only about 20 people there. My daughter had said before we went in that she wanted to perform, but I could see she started getting really upset and uncomfortable when it came time to sign up her name.
(03:14):
I sat with her, I said, you don't have to, but I know you wanted to and I can see in your face part of you wants to and a part of you is scared. And I let her know it was an opportunity to be brave. And I let her know that you are brave if you feel fear and you fight through it, that kids who like to perform might actually not be fighting through any fear. They might just enjoy it. And I let it go. And I said, it's not a big deal if you don't want to sing, no problem. But I think it's a good chance to be brave. My husband, my son and I get up to sing. We put on Katie Perry's Roar, we're singing, and suddenly my daughter walks up to us, grabs a microphone, and she starts belting out Roar.
(03:56):
And my heart burst. I was so proud of the message I was instilling her that it was working and I just had goosebumps. She was proud of herself and we hugged and I said, I was proud of you. And I could see in her face she was so proud of herself. And it was just a really beautiful moment for me. I think I'm trying to do things every year that scare me both in life but in my career. And I was so proud of my daughter because there's so many moments like that through childhood, of course, where you're trying to grow. And it was just a really amazing moment. And today you're going to hear from Emmy award-winning journalist Paula Ferris. She was a co-host of Good Morning America and The View, she basically says she was pushed out of her job during Covid and now she's figuring out her next chapter, which includes a great book called You Don't Have To Carry It All. Paula's got a lot to talk about and I'm really excited for you to hear from her. Paula, thank you so much for joining us today. What a career you have. You've been a co-host of The View <laugh>, an anchor of Good Morning America Weekend co-anchor of World News now. And now you have a book called You Don't Have to Carry It All. There's so much to unpack in this interview. I'm so happy to have you.
Paula Faris (05:06):
Thank you, Kim. I'm so glad to be here.
Kim Rittberg (05:08):
So Paula, I'm going to dive right in. A lot of people who listen to this show are struggling with career and balancing it. As a parent, you were basically at the top of your career. I mean, being a co-host on the View, being on Good Morning America, those are really the top of your field. Talk to me about what made you leave journalism? Were you pushed out? How did that all work?
Paula Faris (05:30):
Yep. So I think, you know, get to the top and you're like, what good is it to gain the world and lose your soul in the process? And I was seemingly at the top of my career anchoring Good Morning America weekends and co-hosting The View, and I had so much tension when I was working. I felt like I should be mommying. When I was mommying. I felt like I should be working. I never felt like I was nailing it. I didn't like who I'd become. I felt like I was really starting to chase the spotlight and chase things for the wrong reasons. And so I, to pump the brakes at the height of my career, I asked to step into a much less prestigious position because the workplace just wasn't working for me. Workplace doesn't work for mothers. So I was like, can I please work Monday through Friday and just be a general correspondent?
(06:11):
And I did that for a year. And then a, B, c chose not to resign me the very first opportunity they had. So a lot of other moms at the beginning of the pandemic, I lost my job and I had to figure out what to do next, Kim. And was it stay in TV network news, which I'd done for decades or was it pivot and try something different and kind of go after this burning passion that had been on my heart for a long time. And that's to advocate for mothers, specifically mothers in the workplace. And that's what I chose to do. So trying something completely different, but it came out of a painful point in my life of losing my job a lot of other moms did at at the beginning of the pandemic.
Kim Rittberg (06:49):
I think that's so relatable to a lot of people that once you slow down that very aggressive climb to the top, once you're, you say, oh actually at this plateau I'm good. I'm going to hang out here. Do you feel like the employer sees you no longer as all in? Is that sort of how you felt it was?
Paula Faris (07:08):
Well, it was just the look mean. So many mothers are not just dealing with the high levels of burnout and the high levels of mom guilt and the tension of never feeling like they're nailing it, but they're valued less as mothers. Once they become mothers, they're paid less once they become mothers passed over on promotions and they're scrutinized more. And I just never felt like the workplace valued a motherhood, nor did it value what motherhood did to me. I think motherhood made me actually a better employee because I became more compassionate and empathetic and more efficient and more courageous, and I became a better leader. I'm a better negotiator. And those were all skills that were equipped through motherhood. And yet it's like there's the perception and then the reality. The perception of mothers is that we're a risk and a liability. We're counting Cheerios and the Corner. But the reality is we just kind of came, became bad asses, we became the model employee, but you're holding us to these archaic standards. So I really do think moms need someone of a rebrand because we're branded in a light that's just not factual
Kim Rittberg (08:12):
In their view. Was it, did you start stop turning down assignments? Were they like, oh, you're less committed?
Paula Faris (08:18):
No, not at all. I mean, I asked to pump the brakes at the height of my career and just step into a much less prestigious role and work Monday through Friday, but I never got an answer as to why they just said it was a business decision. But I really think I was punished for asking for a better work-life balance, which I think a lot of mothers are trying to, really trying to achieve. But no, I was contributing every day. I was the most requested correspondent for Good Morning America. I was still a correspondent and a reporter still doing big interviews. There are hard statistics that back this up, that once you become a mother, there's something called the motherhood penalty. You're just paid less. You're passed over on promotions. You make less than women that don't have children. You make a lot less than men. It's a sad reality of motherhood today, mothers in the workplace.
Kim Rittberg (09:07):
I think it's interesting to see that because I feel like people would say, I mean you're anchoring reporting for Good Morning America and you were on the V, you have such an incredible career that you've obviously worked extremely hard for, so for it to come from you that you were still being requested. So I worked in cable news and I understand what that means. Shows want you on shows are saying Paula is bringing it. She's working hard, she's bringing good stories. So you're being requested by the money maker, which is the morning show news slash to everybody. The morning show is like, yes, a huge money maker for a network. So if the morning show wants you on, it means you're doing a good job. It means they like you, it means you're delivering the good. So I think it's relatable to people to say, you were still doing your job well,
Paula Faris (09:49):
I was still doing my job great, I was committed, but I was working Monday through Friday and I was saying yes to assignments, I was bringing assignments, I was still doing great work. So that's what was tough. I never really got an answer other than it was a business decision and things didn't end how I wanted them to. But that's kind of part of life, you know, can't always put a pretty bow on everything. Sometimes you just have to accept it was a great chapter, it didn't end how I wanted, but now I'm trying something different and you can accept the pain along with the joy that this next chapter is presenting and that's where I am.
Kim Rittberg (10:24):
How did you envision your career going? What would a good trajectory have been?
Paula Faris (10:29):
I mean, what happened? I got to the top. I was able to do the view. I was anchoring the number one morning show in America. But it's funny, I never saw myself in network news. That's not why I got into broadcasting to begin with. I just really love telling stories. I've always been really curious and I've liked to ask questions and I like to disrupt things, but I always wanted to have a good work-life balance. Being with my children, being able to spend time with my family was big. I didn't want to become one of those working mothers that was forsaking everything at all costs. But that's kind of who I had become and that's why I pumped the brakes in 2018. I just felt like I lost sight of myself and I didn't know who I was outside of it. How
Kim Rittberg (11:14):
Old were your kids at 2018?
Paula Faris (11:16):
Oh my gosh.
Kim Rittberg (11:18):
Or how old are they now? How old are they now? My kids
Paula Faris (11:20):
Are, I was like, okay, first of all, math is not my strong suit. My kids are now 15, 13 and just turned nine. So that was five years ago. So 10, eight and three or four. Yeah,
Kim Rittberg (11:33):
Yeah. I was going to ask, you had said earlier that your career had shifted and it wasn't what you went in for it. So when you started doing reporting, what did you love about it that you felt you lost sight of once you got to the top?
Paula Faris (11:45):
Well, it wasn't that I lost sight of reporting. It was I lost sight of why I was doing what I was doing. And I think I got addicted to the spotlight and addicted to the accolades and the success and the trophies, the ones that you have sitting behind you <laugh>, you're doing it. And it's not that you're doing it for the wrong reasons, but I just lost sight of why I was doing what I was doing and I got so addicted to the wrong things and I was finding my identity and worth in something that could change a job. I just didn't really like who I'd become and the decisions that I was making. So I felt like my personal values were somewhat clashing with the choices that I was making. So
Kim Rittberg (12:30):
I love that. And it's funny that these trophies behind me, why I keep them here specifically is because I quit a good media corporate career. I was leading a big team. I knew I was doing a good job and people were telling me I was doing a good job and I left to bet on myself and say, I want more time with my family. And I gave up on the idea of a fancy title and winning awards and being someone glamorous and important. I sort of was like, yeah, okay, that doesn't really matter to me in the years since I decided to say I'm just going to apply my storytelling skills to projects I love. Sure. And to help other people to help business owners grow. And I won five awards for a nonprofit project for it Gets better. But
Paula Faris (13:15):
Isn't that crazy how it works? Isn't that
Kim Rittberg (13:17):
Crazy? Honestly, it took me probably two years to get out of the mindset of actually I don't care if no one thinks I'm cool or if I'm never invited to another glamorous red carpet event, I don't care. And that's when I won the awards. And honestly, that's why I have it here. I'm like, I did win those awards and I won those awards because I bet on myself and I stopped saying I stopped letting some nameless, faceless the man <affirmative> tell me how my career in my life is going to be. And yeah, that's so good. I think really, I love that you brought that up because I do have the awards in my corner and they're not from a network and they're not from a job. They're literally from a project that I worked with this amazing client and we made together. And I think I'm most proud that I bet on myself because I didn't necessarily, I gave up the identity and that's when that came.
Paula Faris (14:04):
And our stories are, yes, we both kind of chose different paths, but yours you chose, I chose mine and then it was chosen for me. So I think a lot of women, a lot of mothers are scared to leave because there is a very real penalty. It's hard to get back in the workplace once we leave and there's the fear of you're being home or whatever it is not being enough. So I feel like mothers are always struggling with this identity. But one thing I hope that the book does and what I'm really passionate about is just giving yourself permission to try new things. Look, you took your same skills and talents that made you good in one area and you moved them into another. I feel like that's what I'm doing with Carrie Media. I'm, I've always been a question asker and a disruptor and an encourager and an advocate, and now I'm taking it into a different space.
(14:56):
I'm a founder as for this media company that's all about advocating for mothers. So taking it and using it in a different capacity, but we don't have to do one thing for the rest of our lives, especially as women, we can give ourselves permission to try new things in new seasons and it can be really scary. And some of us can't afford to leave our job because we have to put food on the table. So there's a lot of real hard decisions that have to be made. But I really want women to have give themselves the permission to try new things and new seasons. Yeah, they don't have to do one thing for the rest of their life. A job work does not define you. It really doesn't. And you're going to be called to different things in different seasons. And it might be a season where you're like, I really feel called to be home and be present with my kids for a couple years. And you might be called to a different vocational space. So just give yourself that freedom and flexibility. Don't back yourself in a corner. And the skills and skills and talents that you have been equipped with through motherhood are so unique and we need to start fighting and advocating for those. We need to know our worth and we need to advocate for our worth because we just became truly bad asses by becoming mothers. Really, it's true.
Kim Rittberg (16:06):
I've been hearing my friends stress about college for their kids. It brings me right back. I remember the confusion and stress that comes with paying for college. I now have a way to help college bound families breathe easy with College Ave Student Loans. College Ave is here to help you take the stress out of paying for college with loans designed to fit your unique budget and goals through a simple three minute application, flexible repayment options, and helpful tools. This is your shortcut on the road to college. To learn more, visit college ave.com/exit interview and enter to win their thousand dollars college scholarship. There's no purchase necessary to enter or win the scholarship. See official contest rules for details@collegeave.com slash exit. Did you struggle with identity when you left your journalism career?
Paula Faris (16:55):
Absolutely, yes. I didn't know who I was outside of it. I released a memoir a couple of years ago called Out Why I traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling. And it was like why I decided to pump the brakes and why I stepped down from those dream jobs of anchoring Good Morning America and Coast in the View because I was burned out and I didn't like who I'd become. But then when I'd stepped away from those titles, I didn't know who I was. I had a identity crisis, I didn't know who I was outside of it. So I had to really find out who I was outside of what I did. And I think that's what gave me a little bit more boldness and founding caring media because I realized I could do different things in different seasons. I don't have to do one thing for the rest of my life. I have to give myself that permission and I have to get over the fear of whether or not people are going to see me in a different light and how can I be seen in, can I see myself in a different light? So yeah, I struggled with my identity quite a bit. And then you can find your identity and work. You can find your identity in momming, but that's something that a lot of mothers are, I think struggle with continually.
Kim Rittberg (17:56):
What helped you get over it was like what helped you get over that sort of identity crisis? Was it knowing that, hey, I'm choosing this path or I wanted to step back and now I'm finding a different path and this is this season and in five years or 10 years, who knows? What is it that gave you peace in that?
Paula Faris (18:13):
Well, I think I had to know my true worth and value wasn't tied to a job. Would I know who I was outside of it? And I always thought that I would be able to say yes, I can step away from what I'm doing at any point, whether that's working or momming and still know who I am. And if you don't know who you are outside of what you do outside of that one thing, I really suggest I had to do a lot of soul searching. There are a lot of tears, there's a lot of anger, a lot of confusion. And I know I'm a person of deep faith. I know my true worth and value. I know that it doesn't come. I say my value isn't vocation, my calling isn't my career. My worth isn't just my work. I know who I am. I know my true value, and I don't place my value and identity in something that's going to shift and change.
Kim Rittberg (19:01):
And tell me more about your book. So you know, said you were inspired to write it by your own experiences. Tell me a little bit more about it.
Paula Faris (19:08):
Yeah, so it's called You don't have to carry it all, ditch the mom guilt and find a better way forward. And I know what it's like to carry that tremendous amount of guilt and burnout and never feel like I'm nailing it. And it's just when I started hearing the experiences of other women who were paid less and value less and scrutinized more, I really wanted to do something about it. So I put my journalist hat back on. So it's it I took to talk to people from renowned leaders, from different political affiliations, from different religious affiliations, mothers from all walks of life to really find out how can we give mothers in the workplace the support they need and deserve, but also back it up, how did we get to this point? How did we get to this point in America where it is harder to be a parent here than pretty much anywhere else in the world? Why is that so peeling back the layers, diving into our history as a country to see how we got to this point. What I really hope is that look, that this book is helpful and it is hopeful, but you have to peel back some of those painful layers first and see how we got here. But there's a lot of tools to help mothers on their journey. If you want to ditch the guilt, find a better way forward. That's this book. It's helpful, it's hopeful things are going to get better. They really are. So
Kim Rittberg (20:23):
I'd love to talk about mom guilt. Did you feel mom guilt?
Paula Faris (20:26):
Oh, are you kidding me? Yeah, all the time. All the time. So much guilt when I was home I felt like I should be working. It's like, what is that quote? Society expects us to work. We don't have children and to parent, we don't have jobs. So yes. And what's interesting in writing this book is I realize that mom guilt is much an American thing. It was made in America. And we dive into why it is and an American really truly, I mean women, mothers in other parts of the world do not feel mom guilt to the extent that we do. You look globally, mothers in other parts of the world most of the time have to work to provide and they take a great deal of pride in working. But the most important aspect is that motherhood is valued in other countries from a societal level, level, a cultural level, a policy level, a community level.
(21:21):
So asking for help is not a sign of weakness in other countries. It's actually they're expected to have this level of interdependence and to depend on one another. But there's also social constructs set up not to make it difficult for her to have a child and have a job because they need her in the workforce, but they also need her to continue to procreate. And there's just so much support for parenthood, so much support for raising your children. There's not this mantra of, oh, your kid your problem. It's like we are our brother's keeper. It is up to us to raise this next generation. Children are not a valueless commodity. They are here in the United States. So it's really, it's an attitudinal shift in so many ways.
Kim Rittberg (22:06):
Paula, that is shocking that other countries don't set all of their meetings during bedtime and dinnertime. I
Paula Faris (22:12):
Know. Isn't that crazy? And yes, the nine to five is just <laugh> nuts. When I really started peeling back these layers and seeing just like, look, they may not have the three homes and three fancy cars, but they also have different priorities and they know what's really important. They may rent their home, they may, but they're investing in their family, they're investing in experiences, they're investing in the future. And here it's like your kid, your problem, if you want to raise a child, it's very privatized. It's on you childcare, education, all of it, all is on you. But then society gets to benefit from your children once they're of age. So one thing that I discovered in the book too is that there's this happy gap here in America and it's larger in America than anywhere else. And that happy gap is there's the largest gap between parents and non-parents here in America of their happiness. So becoming a parent in America is actually really, it's a stress in a strain which doesn't exist to the levels in other countries again. And it comes not just down to the support and the structure, but the attitudes of children. They're either our greatest natural resource in this country or they're not. And here they're not my kid, not my problem. So it's about attitude shifts. There's so much that goes into it. Attitude shifts, societal shifts, policy shifts, there's a lot.
Kim Rittberg (23:32):
How do you think moms can best help change the working world to make it better for working parents?
Paula Faris (23:38):
There's a lot that we can do. Well, first of all, I think we need to know our worth. And by knowing our worth, knowing that I shouldn't apologize for picking my kids up, for having to leave to take my kid to an appointment. But knowing our worth in the sense that there is scientific physiological research to say that I have grown in so many core capabilities as a parent, as a mother, whether your baby grew in your belly or in your heart, I have become more efficient. I have become more empathetic, I've become more compassionate. My emotional intelligence went through the roof. I'm a better visionary, I'm a better leader. I'm a better negotiator. Parenthood truly made me the ideal employee. And employers, if they really knew what was best for their bottom line, they would value families through their policies. Because families don't leave.
(24:30):
If you take care of a mother or father in the workplace, they're incredibly loyal and one of the greatest costs of doing business is employee turnover and retention. So I think it's knowing your worth, knowing that I have become equipped with all of these capabilities that didn't have before and then advocating for it. I shouldn't have to apologize because if I don't have children, we don't have a society. And even if you don't have children, you benefit from my children because the harder we make it on a society to have children, we have fewer children. Fewer children equals a strained labor force. Fewer laborers. Fewer laborers means economic crisis. It is good to support families. So know your worth advocate for and then reach down and help bring other people alongside of you and bring other people to the table. I think we have a responsibility to sponsor and advocate for other people.
(25:23):
And there's so much that we can do within corporations, which I write about and how we can specifically advocate for families within the workplace too. And that can be difficult because I think 3% of all employees feel, they feel the freedom. Only 3% of employees really feel like they have the agency to come forward and say, I want this. But I think if you're worthy and you're advocating for it and then you're bringing alongside other people alongside of you, I think it can be really, really, really empowering. But don't go to the table and say, I want this and this. Come to the table with solutions, be proactive and then you can show them how parenthood has changed you for the better. There's just so much science and so much research that I really dive into in the book that was honestly mind blowing for me.
Kim Rittberg (26:12):
One of the things I like that I saw for the book is that you recommend partnering with men because it is like as we try to make this change, and by the way, I feel like I want to clarify earlier, I now work for myself, but because I did not see the flexibility I was looking for or even stability I was looking for in my industry, digital media is notoriously volatile. And so for me, a balance where I get to see my kids and also have an income came through self-employment. But I agree not everyone can do that. And I think that there is so many changes that still need to happen in the workplace. I'm a huge believer in we need to advocate more and the workplace needs to change. And I don't think the answer for everyone is quit your job and start your business. No,
Paula Faris (26:56):
It's not.
Kim Rittberg (26:57):
But I think that we do need to ask those questions. What am I looking for? What do I want? And then how do I get there and how do I push for that? Because yeah, to your point is saying, these are the things that would serve me better, but also here's how I serve the company better now. So making it a win-win.
Paula Faris (27:15):
Exactly. And that's why it's important. You can advocate for your worth once you really know your worth and what you're bringing to the table. And parents make up 70% of the workforce and companies that aren't creating family friendly policies are going to get left in the dust because this next generation, the millennials and the Gen Zs, they want something different. And in five years they're going to be 70 to 75% of the workplace. So companies that don't start valuing employees and they're through policies that are family friendly are going to get left in the dust and they're going to have a huge retention and hiring crisis soon, really, really soon. I think too, if you're a leader, and we really, one of the, you mentioned inviting men into the conversation. I'm a huge believer and if we're emasculating men and we're pushing them out of the conversation, we're not able to solve the true problem.
(28:03):
We need everyone to figure out how we can give working moms the support that they need and deserve. And so many of the issues we face as a society, I think are in direct result to how we don't value families and how we treat mothers in the workplace. So this needs to be a unified effort and a unified front. But if you're a leader, one of the best things you can do is not just talking the talk but walking the walk. If you have access to paternity leave and you're a C E O and you take one week of it as, and you are offering six weeks, you need to walk the walk. You can't just talk the talk. You have to help negotiate for your employees their parental benefits. And you have to take advantage of those benefits too because they're looking to see how you react. And that's going to set the tone in the culture of the company.
Kim Rittberg (28:49):
It is so true because I think a lot of times we say, oh, the working world really isn't built for mothers. I think that is very much true. But we also, if we want to make the working world better for mothers, we also need fathers to be more open to absolutely conversations, leaning in more to the home. I feel like I'm very appreciative. My husband is responsible for the groceries and it's gendered, but the finances because he is better at that, but he participates, he knows how to make their lunches. I don't need to tell him what goes in their lunch. And I think that this conversation around that is we do need to change those expectations because how if a woman is expected to work a hundred percent, but also be like the soul or majority domestic helper provider, how does that work? There are only so many hours in the day and
Paula Faris (29:31):
That's why there's record levels of burnout for mothers these days. I read about a statistic in the book that working mothers are working about 98 hours a week, and that's between work that they do at home and work that they do actually with their employer because it just never ends. It's always something. We're juggling a thousand things and that needs to change. And look, there's a lot of single moms, there's more children living in single parent homes in the United States than anywhere else globally. But I think that one of the greatest things that men can do for women in this fight is to take their paternity leave. And if they don't have paternity leave then to advocate for it. And the reason why I think that's one of the greatest things they can do is because it not just helps with the bonding of their children, long-term effects, positive effects.
(30:19):
It has been shown that paternity leave that men who take it have better relationships down the road with their children and those bonds can't be erased. It also helps reduce postpartum maternal depression because you're supporting your partner. And what I think it really does is it levels the field out of the gate and doesn't put it all on the woman that you are the default nurturer and caretaker. It's saying, we are in this together. We are parenting together. If you want to really figure out how we got to that point where the man is the breadwinner and the woman is the nurturer, it's really the genesis of that is the 1950s. Because up until then, the most traditional family, the men and the women were working together working. They were working on the farm or they were working in the home together. They were raising the children together. That's actually the most traditional family throughout American history.
Kim Rittberg (31:13):
I'm like literally envisioning my grandparents. I was like, hmm.
Paula Faris (31:18):
Oh no, the 1950s kind of ruined it for a lot of us tend to romanticize that time in the time of June cleaver. Oh, let's get back to those days. And I'm like, well, what we have to remember is when we romanticize a time where we're remembering a feeling and not the actual reality and what was good for part of the people part of the time was often predicated on horrible things. For instance, in the 1950s, the reason men, white men could have a jobb and the woman could stay home and they had these clear confines was because blacks and women were essentially pushed out of the workplace. There was a teenage baby boom. Morality wasn't higher back then, and a third of the population was in poverty. So you have to look at all the facts.
Kim Rittberg (31:59):
Yeah, absolutely. And can you talk to me about Carey Media that you started as well?
Paula Faris (32:04):
Yes. So I started Carrie Media about a year ago. And again, it was at that divergent moment in time where I had to choose between do I want to stay in TV or do I want to really go for this passion to advocate for mothers in the workplace? And I founded it about a year ago, emptied some of my retirement accounts to just, I just really feel called to help give working moms the support that they need and deserve. And so what we do at Carey is we provide free resources and content and storytelling. Our motto is, being a working mom should work. And we want to tell those stories to help change the stories. We have a weekly newsletter for working moms called the Carryall. It is the weekly newsletter for and by working moms, that's just a load listener. You can laugh, you can learn, you can take a little bit off your plate. So we have that and we have wonderful free resources. Resources on how to tell your boss you're pregnant, resources on how to ask for a raise resources on how to deal with burnout, how to savor your summer, so how to de-stress dinner. So really a lot of resources that help take so much of that tension and juggle off of a working mom's plate. So our ultimate goal is we want to change the game for working moms. We want being a working mom to work.
Kim Rittberg (33:12):
I love that. I love that you're taking all of your skills that you've had over your amazing career and really moving it into an area where you're helping people. I it's really, it's very inspirational. It's
Paula Faris (33:22):
Cool. Thank you, Kim. I appreciate that.
Kim Rittberg (33:25):
And Paula, can I ask you a couple of Roundup questions? Yes,
Paula Faris (33:28):
Absolutely.
Kim Rittberg (33:29):
Okay. You had mentioned mom guilt before. I wonder, do you have tips on handling mom guilt when someone's really struggling with, yeah, I'm home, but I should be at work, I'm at work show I should be at home. Any tips for handling mom guilt?
Paula Faris (33:40):
First of all, I want you to know you're not alone. That the majority of mothers struggle with mom guilt. But second of all, something that really provided a lot of freedom for me was knowing that my kids are actually going to be better because I'm working. There's a lot of data to back this up. Sons are better communicators and their better partners because their mother's work daughters are better for a myriad of reasons because their mother's work. I would encourage you to bring your kids into the process too, of does this work for our family? And also just knowing that globally, other moms and or mothers in other country, they don't really struggle with mom guilt. They take a great amount of pride in helping to provide for the family. And so just know that you're not alone. It's kind of an American thing and your kids are actually going to be better off because you're working, but bring them in the game, bring them into the conversation.
Kim Rittberg (34:35):
And I know that you made this big shift because it wasn't aligning with your family. You weren't happy and you didn't feel like, what's the sweetest moment where you just were like, yes, I'm doing this right, it's working.
Paula Faris (34:47):
I don't know if there's one moment, but just like the car pickup line to be honest, to just to be present in those moments. And look, I think we have to be careful how we talk about stay-at-home moms and working moms. We're all king, all moms work, and so we have to be really careful. Even mothers that want to pump the brakes like I did to raise their kids, working moms are raising their children too, so we have to be careful how we really talk about it. There hasn't really been one moment, but just knowing that I've been able to be present in this season and things are probably going to look different in my next chapter, Kim, but knowing my why, I'm doing what I'm doing because I want to be really present with my children at this point in time and I can, so that informs all of my decisions.
(35:35):
It informs the work I do. It informs what I say yes to, what I say no to how much I'm putting on my plate, the sacrifices that you make. I don't really contribute financially a lot to the household these days. My husband, we live in a very small town, very rural town, and so we had to make adjustments, financial adjustments so that we could really rely more on his salary. While I'm getting Carrie up and running before it can be fully functional and monetized, but there's going to be sacrifices involved. But I think just looking around, being able to go to my kids' games and being able to pick 'em up from school and to be present with them, that's what makes it worth it. That's my why. And again, it may change and my next chapter may change and I may feel called to do something a little bit more hands-on where I'm can't be with the kids as much, but I think bringing them into the conversation, I don't want to demonize work. I look at the cool things that mommy and daddy get to do. Look how we get to shine our light in these spaces. Look what we feel called to bring the kids, involved them in the process too. I don't want to demonize work because our kids are going to have to work. But also knowing you can love what you do, but don't be defined by what you do. But I just love being present even in those mundane moments of sitting in the car pickup line for 20 minutes three times a day. By the way,
Kim Rittberg (37:02):
<laugh> actually
Paula Faris (37:04):
Six times. We have three different drop-offs and three different pickups. So I dunno, just the little things, just being grateful for the little things. In the moments,
Kim Rittberg (37:11):
Are you doing all the pickups and drop-offs?
Paula Faris (37:14):
My husband helps, so we, that's the only way we can do it. Again, we live in a rural area. We live in a town of just over 2000, so you have to drive. We're near Clemson, South Carolina, we're at the base of the mountains, so it's really pretty here. We love it. But it's a small town life. It's a quieter life and we really, really love it and we embrace it. Yes, there are a lot of changes moving from New York City to a small town, but we've really, really embraced it. But yes, we're in the car a lot. My husband's a great partner. The one thing we can't agree on is dinner.
Kim Rittberg (37:48):
I mean, <laugh>
Paula Faris (37:49):
Possibly drive us to divorce one day. We've been married for 22 years and I'm like, could we please figure out who's cooking dinner? It's the biggest fight in our house.
Kim Rittberg (37:57):
My husband will ask me in the middle of lunch, what are we eating for dinner? I'm like, I don't know. I'm in the middle of my lunch. Stop asking me.
Paula Faris (38:04):
Yes, exactly. I'm like, I don't know. What are you making? Right? And the thing is like neither my husband or I take any enjoyment from cooking. So that's the struggle. That is the struggle bus. But he's a great partner. He's not babysitting the children. Yes, he is so good with the kids. They love him. We are a partnership and it's taken a lot of work to get there. A lot of work. But we're committed to being partners in this.
Kim Rittberg (38:31):
Are you happy?
Paula Faris (38:32):
Yes, I'm extremely happy, happiest I've ever been. And you can find happiness too, even after a painful moment like losing your job. So those don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Kim Rittberg (38:44):
You can grab Paula's book, you don't have to carry it all. And you could check out Carrie Media, which is a free resource, which helps you laugh and learn. Paula's also also on Instagram at Paula Ferris Here is when we feature a real mom life in its happiest, funniest, or sweetest moments. Caitlin Meister is the founding director of the Greer Meister Group, a New York City-based private tutoring and educational consulting practice. In addition to consulting with private clients, she speaks in rights on a variety of education topics and is dedicated to a strengths-based neurodiversity affirming approach. And now she shares a sweet success story.
Caitlin Greer Meister (39:19):
Is homework causing stress in your home? You are not alone. I'm Caitlin Greer Meister and I'm the founding director of Joyfully Learning at the Groomer Meister Group where New York City-based private tutoring and educational consulting practice. I'm also mom to two young kids. I have a four-year-old and an eight-year-old. Stress around homework is one of the most common questions I tackle in my private practice. This year I took a little bit of a business leap. I went out onto Instagram. I had no idea what I was doing. It was really overwhelming at first, but here's why it was worth it. I got a DM yesterday from a mom. She'd reached out to me through Instagram dms a few weeks ago. Her child was struggling with homework stress. I helped her figure out a plan to advocate for her child's needs with the teacher. Well, yesterday she came back to me and said that the plan worked. The teacher's incredibly supportive and it's completely changed her evenings at home with her child. Why? Because as moms, we want to use that time to connect meaningfully with our kids, not be homework enforcers. That's my win this week and it's a why I do what I do.
Kim Rittberg (40:15):
And if you want to submit yours, visit moms exit interview.com. We'd love to hear from you.
(40:24):
Thank you for listening. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen. And if you could please drop a five star rating. And I love getting feedback. This is not like at work when everybody hates feedback. I actually love getting letters from you. Tell me what you loved hearing about any ideas for shows in the future. You can find me@kimrittenberg.com or mom's exit interview.com. And you just hit that contact button. And if you run a business and need to level up your content and social media, if you're thinking I really want to get more leads and more clients through video and podcasts, drop me a line. That is exactly what I do for businesses and professionals. My newsletter sign up and more info is@kimrit.com. Or you can find me on social at kim rit, R I T T B E R G. This is Mom's Exit interview. I'm your host at executive producer Kim rit. The show is produced by Henry Street Media. Jillian Grover editor show. I'll see you next time.
(41:26):
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