EP. 40 / 5 Steps to Financial Independence from Jamila Souffrant, Host of Journey to Launch
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What does financial freedom look like to you? Do you have a plan on how you are going to get there?
Jamila Souffrant was a real estate asset manager and aimed to retire at 40. She started her own journey to financial independence and she and her husband saved $169,000 in two years and are debt free besides their mortgage. Jamila began blogging and podcasting and her 'plan' completely changed and she quit her job to focus on her Journey To Launch podcast which has millions of downloads and was featured in the NYTimes. And her new goal is 'financial freedom' and she says "You don't have to wait to be happy." Jamila offers listeners tips on how you can become financially independent no matter how much money you earn!
Jamila teaches everyday people like teachers, working professionals, and busy parents how to eliminate debt, save more money and increase their net worth regardless of their income. She is considered a go-to thought leader in the personal finance field and her work has been featured in BuzzFeed, ESSENCE, Refinery 29, Money Magazine, CNBC, CBS, Business Insider and more.
Plus Vasiliki Gkarmiri (Vicky) is the Greek immigrant jewelry designer behind Next Door Goddess, where she lifts women up and sets them apart with Mediterranean inspired artisanal designs made by hand in the USA and she shares a win in her business.
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In this episode you will learn from Jamila Souffrant:
-The five stages to reach financial independence
-How financial freedom is a personal journey and everyone’s timelines are different
-Learning to spend money in ways that feel good
Show Takeaways:
-How financial freedom looks different to everyone
-Spending money isn’t a bad thing
-You can become financial independent no matter how much money you make
Quotes:
“Financial Independence can take a long time to achieve but that doesn't mean you have to wait to be happy then.”
“I didn't reach the number goal but I've actually reached the lifestyle and the life goal.”
“There are a lot of places that we're overspending or spending in ways that don't bring us happiness and joy.”
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EPISODE LINKS:
-Jamila Souffrant’s Journey to Launch Site & Podcast 5 steps to Financial Independence
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim (00:02):
If you're the parent of a college bound student, you're probably feeling mixed emotions right now as acceptance letters and financial aid offers arrive, excited and proud of your student, but also stressed thinking about how you're going to pay for it all. Take my advice and check out college AV student loans. They are the emotional support system to guide you through the college journey from start to finish. With College Ave, you'll get free access to tools and resources that make the financial road to college easier. Like their student loan calculator that lets you see how a future loan can work for you and your budget. Plus, every month they give away a thousand dollars scholarship to one lucky family. Entering is fast and easy and winning could have a big impact on your college expenses. Visit college ave.com/exit interview. Trust me, it's a better student loan experience. There's no purchase necessary to enter or win the scholarship. See official contest rules for details@collegeave.com slash exit interview. Today you're going to hear from Jam Sufran. She was an asset manager in real estate, an on a journey to reach financial independence. She managed to save a huge chunk of money. She eventually quit corporate all together. She's now a thought leader in the personal finance field. She has an award-winning podcast called Journey to Launch, and she's going to teach you about the five stages to financial independence and how you can get independent no matter how much money you have.
(01:26):
This is Mom's exit interview, the show for moms who want to craft the career and life they want. Each episode, you'll meet inspirational moms across various industries and levels who are working and living life on their own terms, and they'll bring you actionable tips from finance to business development to happiness to crushing that imposter syndrome. I'm Kim RIT Bird. I was a burnt out media executive at Netflix, US Weekly and in TV news. I wanted a career where I was fulfilled at work but present at home with my kids. So I started working for myself and I love it, but not every day was easy or is easy. I wanted to explore with all of you how other moms were creating careers on their own terms. They're carving out flex jobs, starting their own businesses, they're taking back control. Join me and make work work for you instead of the other way around.
(02:30):
Super important but quick favor. Please tell two people to listen to the show that helps us indie podcasters reach more people and make sure to hit the follow button and drop a rating or review. Today we're talking all about money and I actually admit to our guest that I'm someone who has a hard time spending my hard-earned dollars. I've always been a person who's squirreled away her money, but my mom always encouraged me to invest in myself. So when I was first starting out with my career, she would buy me some nice interview clothing. Era was definitely Anne Taylor Loft. Did any of you have Anne Taylor Loft? Like a navy blue pint stripe suit? I had like a blazer with a dress underneath it that was all in the matching pinstripe pattern. <laugh> can't believe I remember that. And my mom would help me pay for a course if I wanted to do an advanced learning course in something related to media.
(03:18):
So now I'm investing in myself. I'm taking a course to scale my business. Basically. I had a great first group coaching course. I've been doing one-on-ones for a long time, but I am really excited to be building up my group coaching so I can help more clients. So it's been fun because then my students are building a community and everyone's kind of learning and leveling up together. So it's been fun and that is my investing in myself. And before we jump into our fabulous guest jama, I have a free download for you. If you're trying to grow your business, grow your leads, grow your income with video, grab that in the show notes, it's a free download. And for mom's exit interview, I spent time compiling the best tips from our guests to be a less stressed and happier parent that's also linked out in the show notes.
(04:04):
All right, this is going to be such a fun episode. Jamilla Souffrant. She's an author and the host of the Journey to Launch podcasts. She's considered a go-to thought leader in the personal finance field, and her work has been featured in buzzfeed, essence Refinery 29 Money Magazine, c v s Business Insider and more. The Journey to Launch podcasts has over 4 million total downloads hashtag podcast goals, and was listed by the New York Times as a podcast to help you get better with your money jam. And her husband saved $169,000 in two years and are debt free besides their mortgage. She's also a mother of three young children and lives in Brooklyn, New York. Jamila, I'm so excited to have you.
Jamila (04:43):
Thank you. I'm so excited, Kim. Thanks for having me. I
Kim (04:46):
Love your bio. I feel like it's like you have such a cool life. Jamila and I met through another mom's exit interview, Bobby, and I'm so glad we did. So Jamila, I want to hop right into you leaving corporate. This is really cool. So talk to me about where you were working and how you realized you wanted to leave your corporate job.
Jamila (05:06):
I was working in, well, the state New Jersey, living in Brooklyn. And that's important because while I enjoyed or appreciated my job, the commute that I had was just a nightmare. And I worked in real estate investment. So I was an asset manager for a top investment firm and company, and I'd actually started working there as an intern through the company and kind of worked my way up into the position that I had. And I've always had dreams of being my own boss. I've was one of those rambunctious free thinkers that said, no one, I don't like people telling me what to do. I won't stay, can't back me in the corner or no one puts me in the corner forever. But as I started to work and make decent money, my dreams of not working for anyone past 30 years old kind of subsided because I started to, I had bought my first condo at 22.
(05:56):
I was getting married. There were things that were happening while I was in my twenties that said to me, how are you not going to work? You don't have a business that you could fall back on you. I tried to start businesses, they didn't work. So fast forward, I'm now pregnant with my first son at 31. I have the horrible commute and it actually got worse as time went on, even though I had this commute in my twenties because just the patterns of the road changed. So what was once a 45 commute went to an hour and a half on just a regular day. And on this particular day where I had my awakening or wake up call, I was pregnant with my first son and I was heavily pregnant and it took three hours and I just said, this is ridiculous. I cannot do this anymore.
(06:37):
Went home, was super upset, was crying and told my husband, I have to find this a way out of my predicament. And that prompted me to start looking into just ideas. And I started to Google, how do I quit my job? How do I reach financial freedom? And I really didn't know what those catchphrases meant or where it would take me, but I discovered podcasts and blogs talking about this thing called fire movement, the fire movement. So the financial, it's an acronym that stands for the Financial Independence Retire Early Movement. And I said, Hmm, what's this? And I basically became obsessed and so on. This my long commute. Now I was listening to podcasts at one and a half time speed. So I was getting through so many of them listening to stories of people who were in corporate or were teachers that were just saving and investing aggressively into their retirement taxable accounts, saving money, and were able to exit traditional careers and 10 years or even less and do whatever they want, whether that was travel the world and never Work again, that's what it meant to be financially independent.
(07:39):
Your investment portfolios paid for your expenses. And so I thought, this is something that might never work for anyone past 30, but maybe this is a new goal I can set for myself. And so eventually it did take a while though eventually I started my own blog that took Chronicle what I was doing to reach my financial independence goals, which then started to turn into Journey to Launch, which is what I do now full-time. Started the podcast where I was able to leave my job and reach a level of financial freedom, not complete financial independence, but a level of freedom that I really believe everyone can reach if they go for it, if they are smart with their money. And it may take longer than you'd maybe five to 10 years, but the time is going to pass you anyway. So why not learn to enjoy the moment, enjoy today, but also set yourself for up for a great future.
Kim (08:26):
So talk to me about your initial thought based on all of your goals and your understandings was you wanted to retire by 40, right? You wanted to start qui squirreling away money. So talk to me about that stage and how much you saved up and then your choice to pivot leave because Yeah,
Jamila (08:45):
So when I first started Journey to Launch, it was to chronicle this journey that I had to financial independence and I wanted to hit that at 40 years old, which meant we'd have enough money in our investment accounts, my husband would still work, he's a teacher, and we'd be able to sustain our lifestyle. And so that meant aggressively saving and investing our money. And I did make a decent amount of money working in corporate America. I had bonuses. My husband was making decent money. So together, even though we were in New York City and then current, currently we have three kids, we were doing well for ourselves, but we structured our finances in a way where saving and investing were a priority. So in the beginning years that that's what we did, most of our money went to saving and investing outside of the mandatory things like our mortgage and paying for kids and food.
(09:29):
Then the interesting thing that happens as you're on this financial independence journey, which is why I encourage everyone to join or to at least start it is because your mind can change and new pathways will show themselves to you. So here I am starting this journey thinking I'm going to work in corporate America for seven years. I'm going to make as much money as I can. I'm going to save and invest, and maybe if that means me depriving myself of some of the luxuries in life, it's going to be fine. But then I started to have more kids. So I was on my second kid by the time I started Journey to Launch, and then I got pregnant the third time and realized that this was not sustainable. This, there was no way I can do my full-time job, have this commute, going to have three kids now and run Journey to launch on the side.
(10:13):
So I had the podcast by then and it wasn't making a lot of money, but there was potential. I saw it. And so I quickly started to think, well, what if there's a way that I can have the time and energy freedom that I'm going after by pursuing financial independence and maybe all the money isn't there yet, but in the meantime I'm able to do a job that I love more, which is what I'm doing now instead of spending most of my time in a cubicle doing something that I don't a hundred percent enjoy with limited flexibility. And so once I got pregnant with my third, I really pivoted from this aggressive investing and saving stance into investment accounts, to investing into myself and into my business. So we pivoted from primarily investment savings and as a priority to our just savings account to help bridge that gap for me to jump into entrepreneurship. Yeah, realizing that I wasn't going to make a lot of money at first and then just started to have a more balanced approach to living our life. And so I had the goal of reaching financial independence by 40. I did turn 40 years old recently. So it's funny because I didn't reach the number goal, but I've actually reached the lifestyle and the life goal that I had for myself that I set. So it's pretty amazing.
Kim (11:29):
Talk to me about that because I love how you see, basically, I love that the process of really analyzing what it is you want and not sticking doggedly, dogmatically, whatever to one process. And you were just saying the goals that you want. Can you expand on what are your life goals? And now that you've hit 40th, by the way, happy birthday, now that you, you've hit 40, what are your goals and how is what you're doing now aligned to that?
Jamila (11:54):
So ultimately, and I think this is for a lot of people, money is a tool that we have in our lives. It allows us to do things with. And so when I thought of financial independence, really I was trying to run away almost or leave my corporate job because that's where I spent most of my time. And I wanted more time, energy, freedom. So what that meant for me, especially with the context of having kids, was I realized that I have three kids two years apart. They're pretty young and taking them and dropping them off to school, that is my husband's a teacher, so his schedule then aligns with the kids schedule. So he could do it, but he's not really going to be able to unless he's late every day. So what does that look like for us to be a family of five with three small children where I have a job in Jersey.
(12:39):
And so when I thought about financial independence, I thought I want the ability to wake up and choose what I did. I want to be able to take them to school and pick them up if we wanted to. But then also the ability to bring my gifts into the world or figure out what those gifts are without the pressure of money. And because I had those clear goals and they did weren't always clear, I feel like it became more clear as I started to save money. And I realized money is great, but once you reach a certain level of security, it's more than money that you need you fulfillment of what you're doing in the world. And so I figured it's, it's not about the money. If I wanted more money, I could have just stayed at my job and stuck it out for the remaining how many years, but I realized that I w I'm actually okay with this journey of financial independence taking longer if it allows me to have the time and energy freedom that I've discovered today. So I think my kids really helped me figure that out quickly because they gave me a more condensed timeframe of having to figure it out.
Kim (13:38):
I love that because I think about that for me from my own experience of realizing when I had a corporate job and I liked my job and I felt valued and successful, but then I realized I had this quick moment of being like, oh my God, I'm going to miss so much of my kids' lives if I don't change something. And I feel like to your point, I feel like success and privilege and success, all of that is getting to choose. I think it's what successful is. Success to me is deciding that today I'm not going to do anything. Like yesterday I went to a Broadway show at a matinee. I was like my friend, who's another business owner that is success and it's success to say, I'm going to pick up my kid on Monday at three o'clock and go walk the streets of Brooklyn with her and then bring her to her class, her skateboarding class. And I like that you had that moment of realigning what you decided you wanted because what you had at first was a financial goal, but your financial goal was a life goal. And so now you're, you've been rejiggering those until it's something else, until it looks like something else. I love the idea of the shift of it. So speaking of financial though, so how did you end up monetizing and how is the monetization going now you're many years, right? What year did you quit your job?
Jamila (14:54):
2018. So I didn't go back after maternity leave. It was all in alignment with when I gave birth to my third child,
Kim (15:01):
Me. And we could have been hanging out on our, I never went back after Matt leave either. Actually I think it was 2019. I fully never went back. But 2017 I didn't go back either. Yeah, <laugh> talk to me about, I was like, oh wait, now I was laughing so much that I'm like, I lost my train of thought. So talk to me about the financials of it weighing that corporate job to what you're doing now. How is it comparing?
Jamila (15:22):
So it's interesting because the thing about being so analytical, and I'm a risk taker, but I'm also a calculated risk taker. So we made sure we had enough money to at least cover our expenses while my husband worked. It didn't cover all of our expenses. So we made sure to save up enough that way, journey to launch as a business. If it didn't make money in two years, we'd be okay. And then the plan was in two years, if this is not working and I'd have to go find a job. So I weighed that. I weighed that and what it looked like, how it impacted our finances, realizing that ultimately I still had this goal to reach financial independence, but what would it look like if I did take a break of investing aggressively and saving aggressively? And when I ran the numbers, I had the spreadsheet, I have spreadsheets, I ran the numbers and it said, even if you stop investing for five years, I mean even if you stop investing, you did so much work over the past few years that you'd be actually okay at the standard retirement age that you would never have to invest again.
(16:19):
So that's worst case, which the worst case is actually pretty great because there's some people who can't say that yet. And then I realized, okay, so let's get some other scenarios. So what if I can't invest and save for five years? But then I start after that? And so I ran all these scenarios and realized I'd be okay in neither one, which made me feel okay with taking the risk of leaving the kind of six figure salary and bonuses behind because I also said, well, what's the upside? So I'm running all these worst case scenarios. What about the best case scenarios? What happens if my dreams do come true and I actually make just as much or more money in my corporate job? And then I'm also working on projects and doing things that I could only dream of, which is actually happening. And so with that, I thought that the risk to not take it would be too much, too heavy or too costly to avoid. And there was just, it was a no-brainer once I ran the numbers and saw that even in the worst case I'd be okay.
Kim (17:12):
And when you quit your job, did you already have, what do they say? The wind against your back, did you feel like, oh, journey to launch, this is happening. I'm feeling some momentum. Cause I think people, when you start a business or start a passion project, there are sort of breadcrumbs that you realize something about this is connecting.
Jamila (17:30):
There was no financial wind <laugh>, like I didn't have a runway or clients or a lot of things happening. But the things that signaled to me that it was okay, I'd had a chance at making this work was one, which is why it's so important to network and see other people who are doing what you do. Because in my space, in the personal finance space, when I was working and a newbie, I would see other creators how they turned their expertise into, they were writers, they were on their personalities, they wrote books, they sold courses, and they were doing pretty well from what they said. And you know, can't always believe what people are just saying online. But I also had a couple friends where I knew, I knew that they were doing okay and were able to sustain themselves. And that gave me confidence. And I'm definitely one of those people that if someone else can do it, why can't I?
(18:16):
So I'm like, if they can do it, I can do it too. So that was helpful to see that it was a viable business model. I just had to choose what I wanted to do. The second thing was I was getting such great feedback from the audience, from Journeyers, like the podcast downloads, they were decent, they were growing slowly. Nothing was like a takeoff, but it was growing slowly over time. I had secured an agent like that year too. So that signal to me agent that would help with brand partnerships. And so that signal to me that nothing was coming in yet, but I saw that he saw on me that there was a potential to make money. So I was like, all right, that's helpful. And we had that, the money in our savings account that would help bridge any gaps. So with all that and just some prayer, I said this, we're just going to have to, there's no other time that this to me makes sense then now to make this work. If I'm going to do it, I got to do it now.
Kim (19:08):
And so the income streams are what? Brand partnerships podcast ads. What are the different ways that you make money? Yeah,
Jamila (19:15):
I've changed. It's changed a bit since I started. So I used to sell my own courses and I still have those kind of on pause right now. But right now, currently the main ways that I make money, brand partnerships, podcast, sponsorships, and I am writing a book. So my book Advance, although when it comes to book advances, that's broken out into one forts over a period of three, four years. So that does take time. So that's primarily where I am now. There's so many other opportunities there too. I'm just not giving the energy to that because I'm focusing on writing the book right now.
Kim (19:48):
Congratulations. Writing a book is a huge, huge deal. So congratulations. That's
Jamila (19:52):
Exciting. Thank you.
Kim (19:54):
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Jamila (20:55):
There is so much talk around being frugal or not spending money, which for good reason when it comes to personal finance because there are a lot of places that we're overspending or spending in ways that don't bring us happiness and joy. So I think there's a lot of content about that, avoiding spending, don't spend your money. But there is something to be said for a lot of people who are actually afraid to spend money. They do have the scarcity mindset. I never feeling they have enough, even though they are financially secure, there's not probably enough content around that. And I think I know why. I think that's really a privileged position to be in. For someone to have be making potentially six figures or have a stable job, but they're afraid to spend money, you get that whole like, oh, woe is, you have $10,000.
(21:40):
You don't know how to spend and think about someone who actually doesn't have that kind of money. That's why I think a lot of personal finance creators want to help people who need help on a day-to-day basis. It works and it's great, I think where a lot of the energy should be spent, but there's a large population of people who can spend more in order to gain some time back or energy back by outsourcing as a family or taking vacations or buying just something that they want. And the idea around it, they may just feel not great about it for various reasons, and it's working through why they don't feel great and maybe they don't feel great because it's not in line with their values. Maybe they want it because it's someone else has it, or it's just social media and or messaging or maybe it's a self-worth issue. You don't feel like you deserve it. And so these are deep-rooted, introspective questions and things we have to peel back in ourselves if we are in a financial position to do more, but we don't just to realize or make sure that we're doing it for the right reason.
Kim (22:41):
I think that is a good point. I'm one of those people, no matter how little or how much money I earned, I wouldn't really feel comfortable investing in myself. And listen, it's a place of privilege. I've never really, really struggled, struggled, struggled, struggled. But whether I earned a lot of money or a little money, I never would invest a lot in myself. I never bought a lot of nice things. And I think as I get older, I'm better at putting the money to delegate. I no, I've never had any problem with I'm going to hire someone to clean my house. I don't like cleaning. I'm not good at it and it's not a good use of my time. And I think I've gotten better at spending money on delegating, especially as I'm growing my business because without that I'm like, if I'm in all the administrative tasks all day, I'm not bringing my actual value to these clients and students. I'm an amazing video strategist. I'm a great marketer. If I'm spending all day in Google Sheets and doing administrative tasks, why did I do this? So I'm getting better about delegating, but I agree with you about that guilt. We feel there's a lot of weirdness about spending the money you have.
Jamila (23:39):
So some of the questions are things you can think through if this is you, because you talk about not I'm that too, in terms of not spending on myself, I don't buy a lot of clothes. I will have the same shoes sweater for years.
Kim (23:53):
Yeah, me too.
Jamila (23:54):
My sister, she's the total opposite. She's like, oh, it's new. It's like the new season. I need to get a new coat. I'm like, you buy a coat last year. <laugh> like, I can keep a coat for years. So if she were to be try to be like me, she would feel restricted. She gets energy from shopping, she likes it or even getting her nails done or certain things, which is fine. Now if it's at a conflict of her financial goals, then I'd say you should find a balance between that. Me, I actually don't get energy from doing those things. I like the end result. So I'm not going to say I don't like a new code or getting my nails done. I like it after the fact, but I don't like doing it. And so I think it's really important for you to ask yourself if you, you're feeling like this maybe question of are you not doing something because you actually really just don't want to do it or self-worth you don't think you deserve it thing.
(24:36):
Or maybe even a laziness thing. I don't like using the word lazy, but you just don't feel like you have the time or energy for it. Ask yourself why you're not doing it. Because it could really be like you just don't care for it. And are you feeling like you should do it because other people are telling you should have family or even parents or you should get your hair done. Why do you should? I'm like, because I don't want to. But if it's a, you know what you want to feel like you haven't done it in a while makes you feel good, then do it. I'm all about making sure it's in alignment with your overall goals. I don't want you to spend in a way that's not congruent with your inner goals, inner life, but then also the outer stuff that you want for yourself.
Kim (25:18):
Yeah, that's a good point. I do believe in the, you have to spend money to make money. I'm taking a course on scaling my courses and then my mom, when I was in my early twenties, had zero money. She's like, I'll take you shopping for interview outfits. I was like, okay. And she's like, I will pay for this course for you. I'm like, okay. She sort of set in that mentality of spend money on yourself to grow your career in your business.
Jamila (25:41):
And I agree with that. I think there's investments, just like we talk about in investments in the stock market and in our retirement accounts. There's an investment to be made in ourselves and in our knowledge and skillset and completely agree that there were things I had paid for and still paying for that I would not be where I am today without making those investments. When someone else would've said, why, you know, can do it yourself or Why are you spending all that money on that? And it's like, well, this is why, because it's taken me to where I am now.
Kim (26:11):
Talk to me about reaching financial independence and the five stages of the journey. I'm so excited to hear about this.
Jamila (26:17):
So financial independence in the technical sense is when you have enough money in your investment account or in passive income to help cover your living expenses. So when that happens, you reach the mountaintop, you literally do not have to actively work for money. Again, you can pull money from your passive business or your investment accounts to live your life. To me, that sounds like a dream. I know most people like why wouldn't you want that? But then it comes down to for lot of people like then how do I reach that? Everyone has such different starting points with debt, their income, their expenses, and so it can feel unrealistic, quite frankly for people to reach that goal. It's because when I first heard it, I'm like, that would be amazing to having the option to not even with journey to launch to say, you know what?
(27:02):
I don't even need to do this. I, I'm going to take a break for a year. Who doesn't want to do that? And so I think that is the main goal. That's like the level five. But let me start back to the level one and realizing that it didn't feel appealing or achievable for a lot of people. I broke down the journey to financial independence in five stages. And so the first stage, and a lot of people may be in this stage now and I'd love to hear if your listeners feel like they identify with a stage. So let me know. Stage one is the explorer stage. It is the stage where you just want to be financially stable. So maybe you come to a point where you're not even able to cover your expenses with your income. You're in the red every month, you find yourself getting into more debt.
(27:42):
It's, it's a very unstable stage. And so in that stage, the goal is to get stable. It's just to be able to pay for your expenses from your income. And once you finish that stage or that stage one, you can move to stage two. Stage two is what I call the cadet stage is all about paying off consumer debt. So a lot of people also find themselves in this stage if they're just starting their financial journey. So this is paying off credit card debt. I usually actually don't include student loans in a mortgage just because they can be pretty large for some people and can take decades to pay off. But I'm more talking about credit cards personal loans, a car loan if you want to include it, any high interest rate debt. And so in this stage you're focusing on paying off your consumer debt.
(28:23):
Once you get out of that stage, you're in stage three, which I call the aviator stage. So you got rid of the consumer debt. If you have debt, it's you, you're consciously holding it for a reason or you're slowly paying it off because you want to. But this stage you're able to focus on investing and building your assets. And so when I first started and I found financial independence, I was kind of at that end cadet stage, beginning aviator stage. I still had some student loan debt and some other debt. But once I found out about this end goal of financial independence, I, I worked to pay off that debt and then I was able to be in that aviator stage. So when you mentioned in my bio that I paid off $169,000, I was in that aviator stage where that's the beauty of the STA stage because you're not necessarily having to pay debt or to give your money to other people.
(29:07):
You can decide where it goes. And so we're able to be very aggressive with investing into our investment accounts, retirement accounts, and saving accounts. After that stage, you can move to stage four, which I call the commander stage. It's the work flexibility stage. It's the stage I'm currently in. So this is the stage where you can choose what you want to do for work because you are financially more than financially stable. You know, can maybe take a break to start a business or switch careers or travel the world, but you have the option. It doesn't mean you never have to work again, but you can take breaks if you want. And then the fifth stage is the ultimate stage captain stage. You do have all the money in the accounts or as a business where you're not actively involved, that pays for your expenses. So I know I broke that down really that's kind of a lot.
(29:53):
But I want the main takeaway to be that each of those stages, it can take a while to go through depending on your starting point. So for someone who doesn't have a lot of income or has a lot of debt, someone they can spend one year on the cadet stage paying off debt and another person can spend five years and so on. So it's all going to be different depending on your starting points, depending on what you have working for you or against you. And you have to realize that it's a personal journey, but in each stage there is more freedom to be had as you keep going. Every debt, every dollar paid off, every time you add a hundred dollars more, set an investment account, you are moving through the stages. And so while it might be a long journey, it's a rewarding and fruitful one because before it, things may happen faster than you think just because you started or you might find another pathway. I did, I thought I was going to be take corporate America as my launching through the stages and I found a way to do something that I love, even though it might take me longer to reach my goals. And so I just think just to leave everyone with that so you're not discouraged if you feel like the stages are so long, but that there's so much joy and freedom within each stage that you can uncover as you do it.
Kim (31:01):
Oh, I love that. I love how you break it down. And anyway, I mean I think that when we think about retirement and long term, we're always talking about decades. So I think saying a five step, I don't feel like it's overwhelming. Cause to me, five steps when I had already been thinking about decades away from now. So I think that's a really cool framework. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I was already, so obviously we're not all millionaires. So no matter where you are, how can someone achieve time, energy, and money freedom where they are?
Jamila (31:29):
So going back just to the stages, you can achieve more time and energy freedom by even if you are in the cadet stage paying off debt because you're working actively on paying off debt, that's a priority. And so that's less money that you have to then pay someone. You owe a credit card company. And it's funny, money is so analytical, you know, can count money, you can count how much income you have, you, it's quantifiable how much expenses if you're doing if you the work. But there's a lot of things that impact your money that you can't quantify. It's like the internal energy, the mindset about yourself, about your life, your habits. I mean, sometimes habits are quantifiable, but just the things you do on a day-to-day basis, the little things that make you who you are can always be measured. And so when we talk about time and energy, the thing that we all want, how do you wake up happier or how do you enjoy your life?
(32:24):
I really make a point to say financial independence can take a long time to achieve, but that doesn't mean you have to wait to be happy then. So in order to achieve the time and energy freedom you're looking for, you do have to look at your life differently. So yeah, maybe you're working at a job you currently don't love or maybe your business is not where you want it to be yet, but there are some positives about your life. You get to go to work and pay that bill, not that you have to or you know, get to run a business. And it can be stressful sometimes, but it's your own business. And sometimes I think working on our internal mindset, that shift of how you feel about your life can give you more energy to then do more things that help you. So a lot of that is not measurable. It's like that deep work. It's that introspective work that generating energy by sitting, whether you are spiritual or you're religious or whether you get that through praying or meditation or working out, you can self generate energy that helps you in other areas of your life to help you reach your goals. So I hope that was clear. It makes sense, but
Kim (33:23):
No, I think that's so true. And I also think, listen, whatever we learned was one framework. So there's always a way to change your mind to decide something else. So I love that you're presenting people with this is a framework to achieve goals and your goals can shift and there's a new way to achieve that. Chi, I absolutely loved hearing all your tips and your story. Where can our listeners find you and find all of the ways to connect with you?
Jamila (33:47):
Yes. So you can find my podcast wherever you listen to this amazing podcast. Just type in journey two, launch at t o launch. And then I'm on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Journey to Launch. And if you're interested in the five steps, you want to kind of see the visual of that, I do have a jumpstart guide that breaks that all down for you and gives you the episodes that you can listen to start with in my podcast world@journeytolaunch.com slash jumpstart.
Kim (34:11):
Awesome. And I'll link that out in the show notes. Thank you so much, this is awesome.
Jamila (34:15):
Thanks, Kim.
Kim (34:18):
Here is when we feature a real mom life in its happiest, funniest, or sweetest moments. And if you want to submit yours, visit moms exit interview.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Vicky (34:28):
Hi, this is Vicky from Xa Gardes coming to you with the moon of the week. I had a customer reach out to Melia Instagram and she wrote, I absolutely love my earrings when I put them on. I feel like a fighter, like a warrior. I can do everything. And this resonated so much with me. This is the reason why I started this business. I could always see this bigger, bolder version of women breaking those glass ceilings in amazing jewelry. It's also been my thing as a mom of free. I don't always have the time for the full face of makeup or the perfect hairdo, but I also have a moment to put on a lipstick and a pair of earing and some other pieces of jewelry that make me feel good. This way. I feel like I've done the bare minimum to empower my confidence from the outside in and I love it. And realizing that I was able to transfer that personal experience to my customer and that she now feels the same way when she puts her earrings on. That to me is everything. So there you have it.
Kim (35:33):
Thank you for listening. Please follow the show in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And if you could please drop a five star rating. And I love getting feedback. This is not like at work when everybody hates feedback. I actually love getting letters from you. Tell me what you loved hearing about any ideas for shows in the future. You can find me@kimrichberg.com or mom's exit interview.com. And you just hit that contact button. And if you run a business and need to level up your content and social media, if you're thinking I really want to get more leads and more clients through video and podcasts, drop me a line. That is exactly what I do for businesses and professionals. My newsletter sign up and more info is@kimrit.com. Read the find me on social at Kim rit, R I T T B E R G. This is Mom's Exit Interview. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Whitford. The show is produced by Henry Street Media, Jillian Grover, editor the show. I'll see you next time.
(36:36):
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