EP. 13 / Getting Back Into the Workforce After a Break and Making Career Shift and How to Handle a Resume Gap with Atlantis Adedipe and The Mom Project’s Pam Cohen, PhD
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RETURNING TO WORK AFTER A CAREER BREAK
Returning to work after a career pause…whether that’s maternity leave, being home with your children, being a stay-at-home mom or shifting industries - how do you do it? How hard is it to get back into the workforce? Where do you start? What should you say interview? Hear from Atlantis Adedipe, a mom who's done it—and even used the opportunity to completely switch industries. Atlantis explains how she definitely decided to switch careers, how her son’s special needs impacted her choices, how splitting from her husband impacted her finances and how she stayed positive and fought imposter syndrome and negativity during her job hunt and career shift.
So, once you’ve made the decision to return to work, how exactly do you go about it? The Mom Project’s Pam Cohen, PhD is giving tips on how to get back to work… including a few you might not expect! She’s sharing what to do about that gap on your resume, how to explain it in a job interview, why an extended period of time away from the corporate world could actually be a good thing.
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In this conversation with Atlantis Adedipe, you will learn about the circumstances that shaped her career switch from forensics to project management:
Emotional burnout
Her son’s special needs diagnosis
Moving to a new city and state
Finding herself in a co parenting situation
Atlantis Adedipe on tackling imposter syndrome and negativity in her job search and how Mom Project’s RISE program changed her life and brought her confidence back:
“Making the decision to be a stay at home mom and take a career pause is one thing, but then when you're ready to get back in, to face that rejection and just the uncertainty, it can be a blow to your ego… ‘Do I not have what I thought I had? I went to college, I've had jobs. What's going on here? Has the world changed so much that the skills that I have are no longer valued?’… I think for me it was super, super important to just have that community of women who understood your situation.”
Takeaways from our guests:
Pam Cohen’s tips for moms returning to the workforce after time away:
Don’t discount the skills you’ve learned outside of work
Check out reskilling programs like the RISE program
Be honest about the reason for your gap and give tangible examples of what you’ve learned
You may have to step down the ladder to get back up—think of it as temporary
Don’t be afraid to ask about opportunities for advancement
Q&A - lessons from the episode
I want to get back into the workforce, but I’m no longer in love with my career… is it crazy to make a big switch? You’re allowed to change and outgrow things that no longer fit. Making a career switch may just be the thing that helps you get your confidence back in the workplace.
How can I change careers without relevant professional experience or getting a whole new degree? There is a lot of value in professional certifications and in networking. Research what certifications might be available for your new path and make sure to find a relevant community.
I have a gap on my resume from taking time off to raise my kids, how do I explain it to potential employers? Don’t get caught up in the idea of a gap and start to doubt yourself. Explore the skills that you’ve learned in your time off and package them just like any other job.
Recent episodes that you should hear if you’re interested in this!
PART TIME JOBS FOR MOMS: DREAM OR NIGHTMARE? AND HOW CAN YOU FIND ONE
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EPISODE LINKS:
Atlantis Adedipe: LouBear Apothecary
Pam Cohen: The Mom Project | Werk Labs
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim Rittberg (00:02):
On ramping, returning to work after a career pause, how can you do it? And what if you wanna switch industries entirely? You're gonna hear from Atlantis who got back to work after a break and shifted to a totally new area, she talks about the challenges of interviewing and applying for jobs.
Atlantis Adedipe (00:19):
It can be a blow to your ego. It can be a blow to your self-esteem and you start to like question yourself, like, okay, do I, do I not have what I thought I had? Like, you know, I did, I went to college, I did this. I've had jobs like what's going on here. Has the world changed so much that the skills that I have are no longer valued,
Kim Rittberg (00:39):
But there is a happy ending. And then Pam Cohen from the mom project has tips on exactly what to do when you wanna go back to work after a career break,
Kim Rittberg (00:50):
Leave your lanyard and swipe card at the door. Welcome to mom's exit interview, a podcast for mom's seeking fulfillment and contentment outside the traditional nine to five, whether you're considering taking the leap or you're already mid-air, this podcast is for you. You'll meet moms for consultants. Entrepreneurs stay at home moms with side hustles and part-time workers across various industries and levels. Plus every episode will have experts with tips so you can turn your inspiration into action. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a Netflix executive and former head of video at us weekly, and I'm a mom of two. I quit the corporate world and I've never looked back, but I'm still on this journey. So join me. We don't need a boss to give us permission or a promotion to leave the lives we want,
Kim Rittberg (01:46):
By the way, please, don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave a review and share it with your friends. Sharing is caring and it really helps grow the show and you save an injured lady bug every time you do. Okay. That's just me being punchy. <laugh> looking at this gripper too long today. We are talking about taking a career break and then on ramping or getting back in first, you'll hear from Atlantis at deep, a, from Georgia who is at home with her son. And she'll tell you how she got back to work after a break and switched careers. She knew she didn't wanna be in forensics anymore. And she switched to project management. She talks about how having a special needs child and splitting from her husband impacted the finances of her household and impacted her choices and how she battled imposter syndrome. As she got back to work. I loved her honesty, especially because the topic of imposter syndrome hits many of us and our self-doubt can really creep in. Tell me a little bit about what you studied and your career trajectory,
Atlantis Adedipe (02:47):
Uh, right outta college. I, well, when in college I majored in biology. I started out with the intentions of going to med school, but then I realized that wasn't for me. Uh, but I did, did stick to biology and I went on to get my master's in forensic DNA and serology. So I've spent a lot of time working in different, uh, laboratories. I've worked in an environmental lab, chemical labs, clinical labs, but the majority of my science experience has been working in, um, crime labs as a forensic scientist doing like DNA analysis and all that stuff. So,
Kim Rittberg (03:21):
Yeah. Wow. That sounds really interesting. I actually, I, I worked in, when I worked in news, I covered a lot of crime and I wrote and produced some true crime shows. So I have so much respect for you and for what you do, we used to have on this forensic pathologist. And he would explain about, you know, DNA and soil and samples and how you can learn things. Is that the sort of work you
Atlantis Adedipe (03:41):
Did? Yes. I focused, uh, solely on DNA, just, you know, blood urine, sex assaults, all the nasty crimes and not the bloody stuff <laugh> but it was, it was fun for me. I enjoyed it. It's just that as I continue to work in that field, once I got pregnant with my son, I started feeling, it's amazing how once you have kids, or once you get pregnant, your perspective changes. And the job started to take a bit of an emotional toll. And I think as a mom, even as a pregnant mom, your paranoia becomes a little more heightened. So while I loved my job and I love forensics and I love science, I kind of felt like, okay, I don't know if I wanna continue to do this as a mom.
Kim Rittberg (04:32):
Was it, was it the idea that pretty much day in and day out, you're learning about grizzly crimes and you're helping to solve them. And your head is sort of in this dark place and here you are pregnant with your baby. Is that what it was?
Atlantis Adedipe (04:42):
Yes, definitely starting out. I mean, I was young single, and I'm like, okay, this is my job. I go to work. I do my job. Gosh, there are some really bad people out there, but I do my job go home and kind of leave that at work. I think as I got older and once I got pregnant, it's like, okay, this is the world that I'm bringing my child into. And I know about all these crimes that aren't even making the news. It's, it's a lot of bad stuff out there and it's hard to kind of take an emotional toll. And then you also get cases that are about kids and your, it, it kind of freaks you out of it.
Kim Rittberg (05:18):
Tell me a little bit about your son. How old is he?
Atlantis Adedipe (05:22):
He is four. Uh, his name is Samuel and he is very, very busy. Um, I am actually glad that I did decide to take a career pause cause, well, I, it was kind of a, not a force career pause, but kinda led me in that direction. Actually, we moved from Minnesota to Georgia when he was about nine months old. Um, because my husband at the time got a job here in Georgia. So I was like, okay, cool. I'll spend a few months at home with him and then I'll jump right back into work. Well, it didn't quite work out that way. I'm actually in hindsight kind of thankful for the journey that I did take when he was about one year old, he was diagnosed with NF, which is, uh, neurofibromatosis. Um, he was diagnosed with NF one, um, and that causes some developmental delays.
Atlantis Adedipe (06:19):
And that was something like, as a mom, you hear this and I'm like, okay, I need to do everything I can do to take care of my child and make sure he gets what he needs. And that was like my, my focus, like I have to make sure he is given all the resources that he possibly can get to help him, you know, be on track with other kids. But in, during that time, I was also looking for jobs, but I didn't realize leaving Minnesota, having a job that was a pretty well paying job. And then coming to Georgia, I know when you moved to a new state, it's a transition. It's tough. You have to find a job. I did not think it would be that tough. Uh, I was getting calls for jobs that literally would pay for daycare and that's it. And like jobs that were paying what I was making coming right outta college back in like 2007.
Atlantis Adedipe (07:18):
And I'm like, okay, what am I supposed to do with this? I will literally be paying for daycare and gas to get to work. And that will be it. So it was very discouraging. So there was balancing, okay. I have my child that has the genetic disorder and I need to focus on him, but I also need to work and there needs to be some income and it was a struggle. So I started applying for all kinds of jobs. Like <laugh> anything I'm like, I don't know exactly what it is I wanna do. And I've had friends over the years that were like, oh, you would be great in project management. And I will tell you, I am an organizer. I am a planner. I'm a prepper. That's what I do. <laugh>, that's what I do. I am the person like in the family. I have like the history of everything.
Atlantis Adedipe (08:07):
Like my mom would call me and ask me, Hey, do you remember who did such and such? Yes. Give me a second. Let me check my email. I'll find it that's me. So my friends have always said, you'll be good in project management. And I'm like, okay, cool. But how do I get into that? I have everything on my resume is science, science, science, and I've even had like people I've applied for jobs. And they'll say, so why do you wanna work here? Like I see you, we're scientists. Why would you ever wanna do this? Which in hindsight, I'm like, that is such a, it's kind of a crazy question because people are allowed to change. You're allowed to grow. You're allowed to outgrow things and feel like, you know, Hey, this is not working for me anymore. This doesn't fit me anymore. You weren't working for three years.
Kim Rittberg (08:55):
Was it a choice between your son being born? He was having developmental problems. And then you realized what you had been doing before doesn't work so well in your new city. Did you decide I'm gonna take a pause, like I'm gonna not work for a year or two or three and then not like stop looking.
Atlantis Adedipe (09:11):
So coming into it, I was looking, um, then when I found out his diagnosis, I kind of, I slowed down a bit on looking because honestly I couldn't really focus on other things. I think I possibly was like functionally depressed. Um, because I'm like, okay, what do I do? How do I help him? How do I work? And make sure I help him make sure he gets to his speech therapy, his occupational therapy, like, how am I supposed to balance all of that? But then there's the pressure of, okay, you need a job, you need money to survive. We went from a two income household to a one income household and that puts a strain on things that put a strain on my marriage. And I will be honest, I'm currently in a now figuring out a co-parenting situation. Um, so,
Kim Rittberg (10:07):
So you're, do you get you're SEP you're separating or you're separating or getting divorced now?
Atlantis Adedipe (10:12):
Yes.
Kim Rittberg (10:13):
I'm sorry to hear that.
Atlantis Adedipe (10:15):
So definitely going from 2, 2, 2 income household to one will put a strain on your marriage. <laugh> um, and I think just dealing with my son having developmental delays, and then he was also diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum. So there were just like several curve balls there that constantly cracked at a foundation that may not have been as strong as it should have been in the first place. Um, so here we are, I made the tough decision to do what I felt would make me happy. And it was not an easy decision to make because when chil, I feel like when children are involved, it's definitely that makes it 10 times harder to decide what to do. But I also realize that for kids it's better. And even for both parties, it's better to possibly have two happy homes instead of one unhappy home. Uh, so here we are figuring out the co-parenting situation and it's honestly, it's at least for me, I, I feel I am a happier person. It was not an easy decision. It was not a happy time going through all of that, but on the, and I mean, definitely like with anything you'll have your days, it's, it's tough.
Kim Rittberg (11:40):
Atlantis found a work from home job with the Georgia department of health. But as she was applying for jobs, she was getting nearly no feedback. So she decided on a whim to send a note to the CEO of the mom project.
Atlantis Adedipe (11:55):
No one would respond. I would get like rejected right away jobs that I'm like, I'm qualified for this job. I know I can do this job, but I wasn't getting any feedback. So one night I was like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna send a message to the CEO of the mom project. I'm gonna tell her my story. I'm gonna tell her, you know, I'm looking for something I would like to transition at that point. That's when I had decided, okay, I'm not going back to science. I will try project management out. And I had applied for a few project management jobs, but no one was biting. I had no experience in project management. Um, and I just told her my story. I told her, you know, I've been a stay at home mom for the past few years. I'm ready to kind of get back into the workforce. But I also wanna transition careers. I have a special needs son. So flexibility is very important to me. And I honestly didn't expect to get a response, but in like a day or two, she responded to me,
Kim Rittberg (12:53):
The mom project has the rise program, which is a scholarship program, committed to accelerating equity for moms and women of color by upskilling them, training them and helping them with community support and job placement Atlantis took their Google certification in project management. So in order for you to switch away from forensics and, and working in DNA to switch into project management, you got a special certificate through the mom projects rise program.
Atlantis Adedipe (13:23):
Yes.
Kim Rittberg (13:23):
Yes. And that's sort of a program you're doing on your own at home and it ends up with the certificate. So then with that certificate, you can then apply for jobs and have something to say, I can do this. You don't, you know? Yes. Trust me. Okay.
Atlantis Adedipe (13:35):
Yeah. They partner with Google. So it's a Google, uh, Google project management certificate. Um, but the rise program, basically you can apply to get a scholarship and they'll cover the cost of the program. If you know, you're accepted into the program. And honestly, the mom project, the rise program basically was like a turning point in my life. Um, not just the certification course, but the mentorship and everything. It was great. It was what I needed because honestly, making the decision to stay home and be a stay at home mom and take a career, pause is one thing. But then when you're ready to get back in to face that rejection and just the uncertainty, it can be a blow to your ego. Um, it can be a blow to your self-esteem when you start to like question yourself, like, okay, am I not? Do I, do I not have what I thought I had?
Atlantis Adedipe (14:33):
Like, you know, I did, I went to college, I did this. I've had jobs like what's going on here. Has the world changed so much that the skills that I have are no longer valued it, it makes you question a lot of things. So with them, it was really great to just have women who've been in certain situations, um, have kids who've kind of navigated their way through things and hear their stories. And also just have someone kind of like saying, you know what, Hey, you can do it. This might be a rough week, but you got this that I think for me, was super, super important to just have that community of women who understood your situation.
Kim Rittberg (15:16):
Was it easy to find a job what'd you end up doing?
Atlantis Adedipe (15:19):
Um, so I finished my certification in, I think the beginning of August, 2021. And I started applying for jobs and the mom project in the rise program, they help you with that. They help with resume prep and like interview prep and all these things. They have a lot of great resources to use. They connect you with, you know, different companies. And there are certain companies that actually work with them to hire moms and people, moms wanting to go back into the workforce. So I was applying, I had a couple of interviews, um, and nothing was happening. I'm like, okay, <laugh> I got this certification. Um, I still have my job with the department of health. So I'm like, okay, I have something, but nothing's happening. I have this
Kim Rittberg (16:03):
Certification. You're at this point, you're like, come on, I need this job. Give this job. You I'm ready. I'm ready.
Atlantis Adedipe (16:09):
I'm like, I'm here. I did it. I finished it. I finished it. It's often said that moms are like the best project managers because
Kim Rittberg (16:16):
Right. We're the cuz we're the COOs of the household, the CEO, COO CFO,
Atlantis Adedipe (16:22):
Everything. <laugh>,
Kim Rittberg (16:23):
I'm actually, I'm not the CFO of my household, but I'm definitely the COO and the CEO <laugh>
Atlantis Adedipe (16:30):
Yes. You're you do so much. And she was like, you have to change your perspective. You have to change. I'll never forget. I went to the dentist one day and this was before I started working and the hygienist was like, oh, so what do you do? I was like, oh, nothing. I'm just a stay at home mom. And she was like, yeah, no don't ever say, oh, nothing. I'm just a stay at home mom. She was like, that's a job. That's a big responsibility. You probably do more than some people actually do on their paying jobs.
Kim Rittberg (17:01):
Atlantis spent several months applying for jobs and she was beginning to feel down until a promising interview with CVS health.
Atlantis Adedipe (17:11):
The interview went well, this was like a week before Christmas. And they said, you know, I didn't expect to hear anything during Christmas break. And they did tell me they should, will probably make a decision the first week in January, keep applying
Kim Rittberg (17:24):
Santa Santa. I need this present of a job. No more Cole stop giving me Cole. Yes.
Atlantis Adedipe (17:29):
I was like, okay, that didn't work out. I'm just gonna keep applying. Like I've been doing. And then I wanna say the second week in January, I got an email and I was sitting down doing virtual school with my son. And I saw the email on my phone and I was like, oh my gosh, <laugh> they wanted more information to process my offer letter. And I was like, wait, I got a job. I got a job as a project manager. Um, that definitely helped, helped boost my confidence and reassure like, Hey, okay, I can do this. I can navigate this world. And I mean, that, that was the initial high. And then like reality setting. And it's like, okay, can you really do this? You have never done this before. Like kind of that imposter syndrome started to kick in like, what have you go in there? And you don't know what you're doing. Like, yes, you've had the certification, but you've never actually had the title of a project manager.
Kim Rittberg (18:38):
Um, so how'd you manage? How'd you manage to quiet that little devil on your shoulder?
Atlantis Adedipe (18:43):
Prayer <laugh> um, honestly, uh, talking to family and friends and honestly my mentor at the bond project gave me this really cool piece of advice. She's like one day, I want you to send your friends in your family, whoever your circle, just ask them to tell you what qualities they admire about you. And I want you to save that. And then if you're ever doubting yourself, go back through and read those things. And I did it. I was like, okay, at first I was like, eh, do I really wanna do this? But I did it. And some of the things that my friends and my family had to say about me, I'm like, oh, really? Like, okay. You're
Kim Rittberg (19:26):
Like, wow. I would, I would totally hire that lady. Yes. She sounds amazing. <laugh>
Atlantis Adedipe (19:31):
Yes. So, um, it was honestly prayer, meditation, yoga, just kind of reminding myself of who I am, because I, I do think once I had my son putting so much into being a mom, I kind of lost sight of who I was a little bit. Um, so, and I mean, I I'll be honest and I still have moments where I'm like, okay, do I know what I'm doing? Like the first week of work, I'm like, am I really supposed to be here? Do they know that they hired me? And I've never done this before?
Kim Rittberg (20:07):
Like every day you go in and you're like so much gonna find out, I don't really know anything, but then to talk like months, years go by and you're like, here I am. It's working out <laugh>
Atlantis Adedipe (20:16):
Yeah. So it's, it's a
Kim Rittberg (20:18):
That's in ourselves. You know, I think, I think one of the things is that I do a lot of media training with people and that's also presentation prep, and we are always our toughest critic. So I think I love what you said about people sending in notes about who you are and how good you are, because we are our biggest critic, but the world sees us differently and
Atlantis Adedipe (20:39):
Absolutely,
Kim Rittberg (20:40):
You know, whatever it is, like you have two degrees, you had a really great career as a forensics and in DNA. And so obviously you know how to work. And so you're in a new area, but it's not like you lose all those other things about ambition and responsibility and focus and collegiality. It's not like you learn. It's not like you lose those things just because you're in a new job. So I agree with you. And I think that everybody feels that way. And when they switch into a new area, like I've done a few career pivots, not so crazy, not such a different area, but mm-hmm <affirmative> every time I was like, I don't know how to do like 30% of this job. I'm just gonna pretend I do, and then pull someone to the side and ask them to help me. But I wanna know how is the new job going?
Atlantis Adedipe (21:19):
The new job is going well, it's exciting because this is something that I've wanted. And it's something that I worked for. Um, and honestly, I think like, as people, and more specifically as moms, when you're you forget to live in that moment, it's kind of like, go, go, go. And I was talking when I got the job, I was talking to my mentor and she was like, you do realize like you manifested this, you, this is what you wanted. You, didn't just, it's not a situation where you just wrote it down and you're like, okay, but let me write this down and then I'll carry on and maybe it'll happen. She was like, you manifested it. You, you wanted it. I mean, it's definitely a learning curve, but it's exciting. It feels rewarding.
Kim Rittberg (22:01):
As you got back to the workplace, what, what's something you wish you knew earlier
Atlantis Adedipe (22:06):
That it would be really, really hard <laugh> um, no, I wish I knew the value of, um, certifications because I know like a lot of people decide to make the decision to go back to school and give like another degree. But I'm realizing that certifications hold a good bit of weight. And also the importance of, I knew how important it was to network, but the, the importance of having a community, I never really thought about that. I've always thought it was, you know, okay. Um, degree and maybe like work experience, but the importance of knowing the combination of all those things and also knowing how to sell yourself is super, super important. Didn't I knew that you should be good in an interview, but I didn't realize like you have to, you have to make them feel like, okay, we need her. We, she has it. Even if you're not a hundred percent sure that you can fully do what you need to do in that role. So that's, those are a couple of the things that I wish I would've realized earlier on. I would've probably pursued a certification earlier. I would've probably kind of put myself out there and try to network with women and other, just, not even just women, but people that I felt could guide me in the right direction. That that would probably be the things that I wish I knew.
Kim Rittberg (23:44):
I agree with you so much about the interviewing. I've both been a boss and hired, and now I also train people for interviews. And I remember there would be people who'd come into my office and there was someone who didn't even necessarily have the exact right background, but he was so passionate and he just knew he could do this job. I was like, huh? His resume did not necessarily have the right things that I was looking for, but he was smart. And, and just really, he so believed that he could do this job that then it made me think, oh, well, if this person's that confident. So I think that there's so much to say about, even if you're not sure you can, even if you only know how to do 20% or 70% of the job is believing that you can, and then putting that out there, it's the messaging, it's the confidence, you know, it's absolutely, you know, it's, it's looking at the, looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, I can do this. Even when that voice back your head is like, can you really, I don't know. Yes.
Kim Rittberg (24:42):
I loved Atlantis openness. And her tip of getting people close to you to send you what they admire about you. It is a great way to remind yourself who you really are. Especially in times when you're doubting yourself. And I wanted to mention, she started a soap company called Lou bear APO area that she sells on Etsy and a link it out in the show notes. We have Pam Cohen, the chief research officer at the mom project talking about on ramping. The mom project is a platform designed to help women find flexible positions to support their lifestyle. They have upscaling opportunities and also do research backed policy work. Pam explains why it's not such a big deal to have a gap on your resume. And she has tips on how to explain any gap to employers and has some programs that can help you
Pam Cohen (25:32):
On ramping is really coming back to work after you've taken some kind of career pause. Um, oftentimes it's for, you know, raising children, they'd be taking care of older parents, relatives, things like that, but it's where there's been a break and where you're planning on re-entering the workforce. There's been some kind of a gap. And you're ready to, to start again.
Kim Rittberg (25:52):
When a mom does wanna return full time to the workforce after a break, what are their biggest challenges?
Pam Cohen (25:58):
Well, oftentimes, you know, it, there, it's scary because they've taken a break, there's a gap in their resume. And a lot of times that gap starts seeming bigger than what it really is. In other words, mom can get it caught up in the idea that, oh, I've been at home for two years or for five years. What do I know the workplace has changed so much? I don't have the skills or the knowledge that I need in moreover companies. Aren't going to recognize me as a professional anymore. So it's kind of twofold. One is that sell out. And then the other is the doubt that creeps it about, you know, what, what our workplace is going to think of me when they see this big gap in my resume, something, we call a mom Badal at the mom project,
Kim Rittberg (26:40):
A mom Badal. I like that. But there are, are some statistics that say that when a mom, when a woman or a mom has a gap on their resume, it does hurt them. They get less interviews that there's, you know, some sort of motherhood penalty. Are you saying that's not necessarily always the case?
Pam Cohen (26:56):
No, I, I think that there is a truth to that. However, I do think that places like our company, the mom project are really working to help women combat that because there are so many skills that a mom gains, you know, being at home, for example, maybe she's managing soccer schedules, maybe she's managing multiple people's schedules. She's, you know, doing the home accounting she's, you know, doing everything that needs to be done to run a household, all of those skills really matter, but sometimes it's a way of writing them up and addressing them. You know, how did you keep currents? Um, you know, what have you been reading? What are you up to? I do think that given, uh, the great resignation, the need for our great talent, there's, um, a willingness on the part of employers now to say, okay, maybe a gap, really isn't a bad thing.
Pam Cohen (27:45):
Maybe this person is returning more refreshed and, and truly, you know, oftentimes they do have skills that they might not have otherwise had in managing a household or whatever they've been doing while they were away, that we just tend not to look at. So we try to help women package those things up so that it presents more of what they really have been doing. And of course there's shorter, um, reskilling programs, there's some, um, fabulous programs that are available to help women on ramp as well. Our own rise program, for example, that helps moms, particularly moms, women, and particularly moms of women of color reskill for new jobs and an opportunity, you know, to get new certificates in, in areas where people are badly needed and where you really need fresh talents, who are gonna be active for a long time. So while I think that, um, yes, uh, employers may see gaps and ask why they're there. I think that now more than ever, there's an opportunity to say yes, there was a gap, but here's everything that I was doing during that time. And here's how I'm ready now to ramp back up. And that can be a really powerful statement.
Kim Rittberg (28:57):
What are your top three tips for a mom returning to the workforce after a break?
Pam Cohen (29:02):
Well, one is to, um, gather up the information, think about all of the things that you, you did learn during that break. You know, what kind of things were you really doing that are transferable skills, um, and write those down. Um, the second is really think hard about what you do wanna do. Um, you know, potentially before you, you had that break, you were doing some kind of work. Is that what you wanna go back to? Are you looking to go back to something new and different? What did you like? What did you not like? It's a really good time to take inventory on, uh, what was important to you at work and, you know, when you're getting back to, to it, um, what you really wanna see, and then third is what you really need to see in an employer. And thinking about that, you know, what kind of needs do you have as a mom returning to work? Is it flexible work? Is it, um, part-time work? Is it full-time, but I need to be able to be remote or things like that. Think about that. And think about the kind of manager, the kind of, uh, employer that you wanna have, uh, so that you have those ideals written down because it's a great time to really reset, take inventory of what all you bring to the table, but also what you want in this next adventure. What are you looking for as you go back,
Kim Rittberg (30:22):
I've read that when some women or moms on ramp come back to the, the job, some have to come back at a lower title or a lower salary. What have you found in your research?
Pam Cohen (30:32):
Organizations are more flat than they used to be titling isn't quite as important, but also, you know, if you're, if you're working for startups or tech companies, titling is also very different. Um, I do think that there is, um, some truth to oftentimes having to step down the ladder a little bit, to get back up. I encourage women to think of this as kind of temporary. Um, if there's a role that they like, and generally speaking, it's got all the aspects and things that they like it's okay, you know, you're coming back into something you can oftentimes move up very quickly. And those are the things to ask, what are the opportunities for advancement? How off, you know, how, how fast can I move up the ladder? Um, you need to let a company know you still want the role, but I think, you know, you can also say I'm also very interested in advancing.
Pam Cohen (31:22):
Similarly, I've talked to a lot of moms who have said, um, they really don't want that at this point. They really do want to take that step back because their focus is still gonna be mainly on, you know, young kids at home, for example. So they're not looking to get calls at eight and 10:00 PM at night. The, the things that it might take to advance more. Um, so a lot of times it takes being honest with oneself and saying, you know, I really want this role, but I really kind of do want, you know, the work that comes with it, but I don't want, let's say the manager managerial responsibilities, it's okay to take a title that maybe wasn't where I was five years ago. Um, so that I can have that kind of flexibility.
Kim Rittberg (32:03):
Thanks to Pam and the mom project. Some of Pam's tips are thinking about what type of role you want flex part-time full-time remote, and then battle that doubt the doubt that plagues all of us, remind yourself of all the skills you do have and reframe the things you learned and what you were doing during your pause. And you can learn more about the mom project by checking out their website, the mom project.com. And it'll be linked out in the show notes. And before we go, I wanted to share some feedback we've been getting from listeners. And I really hope that this episode was helpful. So one of them was from Joan, who said, how do I make sure I'm growing my skillset to continue to be relevant for the future? And I really hope that our conversation today was helpful in terms of finding opportunities and organizations like the mom project who could help you get back in and also upscale.
Kim Rittberg (33:01):
Thank you so much for listening. We wanna hear from you, tell us what topics you want us to cover and what questions you have for upcoming shows and experts. We will read everyone and we will use them. You can find us everywhere, go to www.kimrittberg.com, scroll down to find the contact button, or you can DM me on Instagram at Kim Rittberg, or you can leave your feedback right inside your review in the podcast app. Please follow the show in apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen and leave review in a five star rating. And don't forget to share it with people who will find it valuable. It's truly meant to be a resource. And this is mom's exit interview. I'm your host and executive producer, Kim Berg. The show is produced by Henry street media. John Hallit is our editor and Aliza. Friedlander is our producer and publicist.