EP. 2 / Part time jobs for moms: dream or nightmare? And how can you find one?
SHOW NOTES:
We dive into whether finding a 3 or 4-day a week job in your field is a dream job or a nightmare for working moms? What’s it like to work part-time and how do you actually find that flexible job? Meet Emily, an executive in solar power energy who works 3 days a week (she feels ‘balanced’ and ‘happy’! wow!). Emily shares how she networked her way into that role and has tips on how she maintains boundaries (including calendar blocking and email signatures). Next, The Mom Project’s Pam Cohen has tips on how you can find part-time work in your field and set yourself up for success -- “Be clear on what you will and won’t do”). Plus stick around for a crazy story about Bethany Braun Silva’s child ruining a live celebrity interview!
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Takeaways:
Emily found a part-time executive job through networking in her field with existing contacts and being firm on the schedule
Emily created boundaries at work by blocking out calendar hours, using an email signature with her schedule and finds 3 days/week better than 5 shortened days
The Mom Project’s Pam Cohen talks about the growth of part-time work, how to find a part-time job, how to create boundaries, & how to be successful in a flex job. Her tip on finding a part-time job and making sure it doesn’t creep into ‘full-time’: “You need to be clear on what you will or won’t do.”
Pam recommends clear communication like: “What would you like me to hold off on? What would you rather that I get done next week?” And make sure you’re clear to your boss when you’re hitting your hours for the week.
Pam says part time jobs range from 10 to 30 hours a week, the average is about 20.
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EPISODE LINKS:
The Mom Project Website | @The_Mom_Project IG | Emily Steinberg | Bethany Braun Website | Bethany Braun IG |
FULL PODCAST EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Kim Rittberg (00:03):
Part-time jobs. How do you find one? And is it the unicorn that you've been searching for? Or is it a raw deal where you work a hundred percent of the time, but only get paid for 60%? Let's find out
Emily Steinberg (00:16):
My work life balance is very good. Like I am happy.
Kim Rittberg (00:20):
We also have the mom project here to teach you how to find that part-time job and truly keep it part-time
Pam Cohen (00:26):
You have to say, wait, there's only so much I can do
Kim Rittberg (00:31):
Leave your lanyard and swipe card at the door. Welcome to moms, exit interview, a podcast for moms seeking fulfilment and contentment outside the traditional nine to five, whether you're considering taking the leap or you're already midair. This podcast is for you. You'll meet moms who are consultants, entrepreneurs stay at home moms with side hustles and part-time workers across various industries and levels. Plus every episode will have experts with tips so you can turn your inspiration into action. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a Netflix executive and former head of video at us weekly. And I'm a mom of two. I quit the corporate world and I've never looked back, but I'm still on this journey. So join me. We don't need a boss to give us permission or a promotion to lead the lives we want. As I was in the early years of my marriage and loosely thinking about having kids, I would scan the room like a soldier in a dark forest with night vision goggles, Who in this office is a parent who in this office looks like a happy parent.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Ooh,
Kim Rittberg (01:48):
Not him. Definitely not her. I sped one mom who did project work. She seemed satisfied. Another made sure to leave at five o'clock every day, uh, but had a long commute. Then I started hearing about some mythical magical part-time job. One where you can be in your same field and applying your expertise, but only working three or four days in just a few minutes. You'll hear from Emily, a solar power executive who managed to NA a three day a week senior role in her field. And she'll tell you how she negotiated for it. What she wished she knew early your tips on how you can do it. Plus regrets and advice. When I was still in an office, a dreary one of course, because aren't they all, I had been working hard as a producer and writer in TV and news for about 15 years.
Kim Rittberg (02:37):
Finally, I became a boss. I launched and led a digital unit with 18 people working under me, us weekly, the celebrity magazine as baby number two was arriving. So was my professional epiphany. My company was bought and amidst the chaos. I began considering paths to give myself more control over my schedule pre pandemic. There were no work from home Fridays. Luckily my husband has health insurance. So I started thinking about part-time jobs or flex jobs. These seemed magical. You use your skills, that you've been honing over a decade, but you get to eek out a little more time for your family or, or for yourself even what would three or four days a week look like? Could I apply my own skills to a different sort of role or at least one that didn't require five days a week? Could I ever go to the gym again?
Kim Rittberg (03:29):
Uh, I wouldn't count on that. I'm like many other moms. I wanna spend time with my kids, but I still wanna work. I wanna earn my own money and feel professionally fulfilled. I'd like to note that it's definitely a privilege to even be able to consider taking 60% or 80% of your salary. I think you are trading money for a little bit of happiness, but I a hundred percent understand that's not an option for everyone. Now that I've been outside the traditional job path and been on a path of self-employment I've heard from more moms in part-time and jobs, and this was some of their perspectives.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
I was coming in from a full-time employee scaling back. I was working full-time and I scaled that job to become like a four day job and into being working three days. And I found that very challenging because I think people's expectations of what you can actually do in three days is so I think just make sure you set your boundaries in.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
I worked four days a week, one of which was from home and that was an incredibly ideal setup. It was a unicorn and wish I were still doing it.
Kim Rittberg (04:27):
The more I thought about it, I realized, wait, I had hired someone in a job share. I had to staff up a video project really fast. It was a Facebook live daily series. And I had to hire for it in just a few weeks, which is normally a month long process. It was kind of crazy. A woman I knew from the industry said she could step in. She was skilled and she had a great resume and reputation. She was firm that she could only work three days a week, but she said she could fill in the other two days with another it experienced staffer. This conversation happened in 30 minutes. The job worked out and I realized she was onto something. Not only did these flex jobs exist, they are under the radar. And they're just not talked about so much. I hired a flex job without even realizing. Lastly, in the conversation about part-time work, I found my very own three day a week situation. When I started consulting, I had a three day week client and overall it worked out really well for about a year and a half. It was a great relationship. Now you're going to hear from Emily Steinberg. I, she has an MBA in over a decade of experience. She landed a great executive role three days a week. And then we'll talk to Pam Cohen at the mom project who will guide you to find your own flexible work situation.
Emily Steinberg (06:03):
I came back from my second maternity leave and I just immediately knew that this constant running at work and then coming home and running at home and feeling like I was spending no time with my infant at the time, you know, I'd get home from work at six and he was four months old and I was putting him to bed at six 30 or seven and I just wasn't seeing him. Um, and so I knew that I just, I needed to make a change at this point in my life. Um, and you know, didn't know how long that would be, but felt like what was the point of having these kids if I just never saw them. And so I spoke to my boss about wanting to transition to three days a week and they, you know, were very nice and said, well, like if that's your choice and that's what you need for your family to be successful, you should do that.
Emily Steinberg (07:07):
This job cannot be that for you.
Emily Steinberg (07:21):
I had met the person who's now my boss, um, just through industry connections and we had an existing relationship. And so what, and I was leaving my last job, I thought, okay, consulting work seems like the right path for me right now. So I had asked him about potential clients because he's very well connected in our industry. And, um, and he said, well, yeah, I can rattle off 20 names that I could refer you to, or had just come work for us. And I told him very directly from the beginning that I needed the three time a week or three day a week schedule. Um, and that like, that was my requirement. And he pushed on it a little bit and like tried to see if that was flexible. Um, but I think what made me really successful with it was like, first of all, I knew, I knew that he was motivated to bring me on board. Um, it was a little bit of a unique situation in that there was not a very specific job description. It was being filled. He just was motivated to bring someone on board who had good expertise in the areas that he knew his team needed, um, and was willing to take a risk on trying out the part-time arrangement. And, you know, I came in and was really focused at the beginning of having a couple of quick wins to demonstrate that it was working.
Kim Rittberg (08:37):
Right. Cause you need to cuz especially, I think that the buy-in on part-time is not always there. So you have to prove you are as effective if not more as effective as a full-time person in your
Emily Steinberg (08:49):
Role. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Kim Rittberg (09:01):
Emily told me what she thinks has been key to making her Part-time role work.
Emily Steinberg (08:56):
Well, I am not in a client facing role, so that is number one. I think this would be much harder.
Kim Rittberg (09:03):
Oh, because you're not getting calls or emails at all weird times and right.
Emily Steinberg (09:07):
I don't need to be responsive to the degree that someone who is in a client facing capacity does. So it allows me to create more boundaries, um, which I do. So I don't have my work email on my phone. I don't have my work calendar on my phone. Um, I block the days that I'm off, I work Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. Um, I actually have my schedule and my email signature so that it's not fair for me to expect other people to remember my schedule. Um, in all of those things, help me really protect those two days off. If I'm knocking off things on my per personal and family to-do list on my days off, I can be so effective in those three days that I'm working because I'm not getting distracted by the stuff that other working parents are often fitting in in between conference calls on their lunch break, you know, throughout the day, like I'm doing that in a very specific amount of time.
Kim Rittberg (10:11):
I have done three days a week for a set amount of time with a client. And I wanted to get nitty gritty with Emily just because you are pressing pause on those days that you are not working. The rest of the company is still chugging along.
Kim Rittberg (10:24):
I love your idea about putting your schedule in your email. That's genius. What about meetings when you are not the primary stakeholder? Do you get invited to meetings on your days off? Because it's people in other departments?
Emily Steinberg (10:36):
I would say probably once a week, I have a half an hour of meetings or phone calls that I end up taking.
Kim Rittberg (10:44):
I do the same too. I will prioritize an important meeting that's on one of my days off, but there are times that I can't make it. So in my experience, I'm sometimes having client work on those other times. So, so I just can't and other times like, I'll actually, you know, not available. You had your second kid then when, when you had this job job transition. Yes. So when you had your first son, max, was it not as tricky the hours weren't as long or you didn't struggle? Cause when you have one it's different than having two,
Emily Steinberg (11:15):
It's just different. When you have one versus two, I would come home from work when I was working full time and I could devote a hundred percent of my attention to that one child. And when you have a two and a half year old and a six month old, the two and a half year old is gonna just grab all of your attention because that is what they do best.
Kim Rittberg (11:38):
Emily knows I'm, I'm laughing with agreement. I'm like, yes, the older child knows how to knows how to own the room. And the younger child is like fit in, fit in, gotta just fit in.
Emily Steinberg (11:48):
Right, right. Exactly.
Kim Rittberg (11:49):
Pretty much when I hear part-time work in a corporate world is like the unicorn job. What are some of the challenges that come along with that
Emily Steinberg (11:58):
Advancement? Um, you know, you're just, you are taking on a little bit less than you would be able to if you were full time. And so the number of wins and, uh, velocity of wins that you have is just a little bit different life still happens and work still happens on those two days off. And so you can miss important conversations, five days worth of meetings get compressed into three. And so if you look at my calendar, starting at nine in the morning to five o'clock at night, it is often solid booked.
Kim Rittberg (12:40):
Uh, Emily mentioned meeting culture. I've been at several companies with what is called meeting glut back to back meetings all day long with no actual time to do real work.
Kim Rittberg (12:53):
So when do you do the work?
Emily Steinberg (12:55):
Well, I'll do it at the end of the day. I'll do it. You know, sometimes from that hour, between five and six, we have dinner at six every night. You hear a lot about parents logging in after bedtime and going back and doing the work. And that definitely happens. Maybe this is good. I probably just like, don't do the things that aren't as important and maybe those never get done. You know, it's also saying no, I also block my calendar so that people can't fill up my calendar. I actually implemented for our entire 40 person sales team, no meeting hour, which is three o'clock Eastern time every day. If I need to work on a specific project, instead of allowing other people to take up that time, probably for valid reasons. But if I know I need to get something done, then I'll just block the hour.
Kim Rittberg (13:46):
I find the time management piece to be so interesting, challenging, but when you do it right, you feel it's sort of effective. Like when I was at Netflix, there were meetings from the second you walked in until the second you left and sometimes on your rides home. And sometimes that night after bedtime because it's an international company. So you're really adjusting for all the different time zones because we were in New York and a lot of our colleagues were California. I would make sure between 10:00 and 11:30, it would always be a block. I would never schedule calls, not with England, not with whoever. And that would be my work time. And it was so important. And honestly, I have seen, I feel like over the past 15 years, I've seen the meeting culture get totally out of hand. And it's to your point, you have to protect that. I sometimes try to share a Google doc and just ask people to comment in the shared doc in, in the shared presentation, cuz sometimes you don't need a half an hour meeting to review things and people can just drop their notes in, you know? Yeah. I've seen eight people in a meeting looking at a deck making notes. I'm like what a terrible waste of time. This is
Kim Rittberg (14:49):
Emily has been giving us her time management tricks, blocking your calendar to protect some quiet work time and clearly communicating your hours. Even in your email signature. She says while part-time has been generally positive, she pointed out getting promoted has been more challenging.
Emily Steinberg (15:06):
Advancement has been one of the li like major limiting factors. There is just a norm in corporate America that you cannot work part-time and be a senior leader at, at a company. What I'm hoping to achieve is demonstrating that it's the quality of the, of work, right? And the quality of the thought leadership that, uh, that earns you, that advancement not the number of hours that you put in. Um, and so I'm building a presentation to advocate for why I've earned that advancement, um, and trying to demonstrate some examples in other, uh, in other companies or organizations that would show that my company wouldn't be the first to make this kind of move.
Kim Rittberg (16:03):
I love, I love the idea of using data and finding other data points to, to sort of push through your argument because know the conversation is changing around working moms and the workplace is having different conversations about how do we accommodate, how do we keep people who are educated and knowledgeable, like replacing someone who has a ton of experience and knowledge because there aren't accommodations being made is expensive for the company. It's expensive to replace people. Um, that's really smart.
Emily Steinberg (16:32):
My executive team has been extremely supportive overall. They have demonstrated some leadership in the sense that they were willing to hire me in a director position at part-time without really like having worked with me before. Um, and that they continue to respect those boundaries that has endeared me to them and made me much more loyal and motivated.
Kim Rittberg (16:57):
Emily and I also talked about how for her leading a team is important and she finds satisfaction in that,
Emily Steinberg (17:06):
You know, my self-doubt and imposter syndrome that impacts many other parts of my life. Yeah, doesn't exist in that specific part of my life. And so for that reason, it's important to keep it around.
Kim Rittberg (17:22):
I used to get so much pride out of being an executive, being a team leader, getting accolades, and now I'm working on really satisfying things, but the accolades are fewer, cuz I'm like a hired gun in a way and I'm not leading people. So I've had to reer my own mind to say that part of my professional experience is not as important right now. And I am not gonna get and don't need the accolades that I used to get or expect, cuz I'm not the senior staffer of this team leading this project has that
Emily Steinberg (17:57):
Rejiggering of your mind been
Kim Rittberg (17:58):
Successful? When I meet with my therapist, it's been very successful. It takes work to undo a, a full lifetime of like professional expectations set by you, peers, your parents colleagues. But it, I think that every time I say to myself, I'm doing this because I want to, it actually does help for the most part. Yes. Cuz I think I'm like really trying to sort of do my own version of mind control and really say to myself like whatever this is right now, I enjoying it where I'll be in five years or 10 years. I don't know. And that's okay if I never was like, I wanna be three rungs up in this organization in five years. So I never had such a linear goal anyway to me it's always been like, how do I have a fulfilling career that leaves me with the brain and heart capability for others.
Kim Rittberg (18:53):
Okay. It's time for the larger questions about work, life balance and happiness.
Kim Rittberg (18:59):
How happy are you?
Emily Steinberg (19:02):
I'm trying not to let the small things, pull me down and take over everything that is bringing, be joy in my life. But when I actually do take those moments to reflect where I'm just in the present appreciating, you know, either a business challenge that I'm working on or snuggling in bed with the kids, like I am happy. Um, but I think that's something that I am working on.
Kim Rittberg (19:28):
How would you say your work life balance is?
Emily Steinberg (19:31):
My work life balance is very good and I can, you know, setting aside the fact that I do need to fit in the real work, um, often in off hours. Um, you know, I think for the most part I can really, uh, choose to take on more and throw myself into it and invest the extra hours during my off days sometimes. Um, or I can choose to really respect those boundaries and work. My part-time schedule as defined
Kim Rittberg (20:10):
Emily's takeaways are if you know, you want to be, part-time stick to that, try to network to get that. If you are already, part-time keep your calendar schedule listed in your email. Three days is easier than saying I work five days a week and end at two cuz she says, there's the creep of meetings in just a minute. You'll hear from the mom project on how to land own flexible work role. Now that you've heard firsthand about part-time jobs, we have Pam Cohen, chief research and analytics for the mom project, which is a platform designed to help women find flexible positions to support their lifestyle. Pam will give us an overview of part-time jobs and has tips on how to land a part-time job and how to ensure your part-time job doesn't creep into being full-time. We started by talking about how common part time jobs are
Pam Cohen (21:19):
Part-time jobs are, are really quite prevalent. Now certainly on the mom project platform. We, um, we have our fair share of offerings of part-time jobs, which can go anywhere from usually 10 hours a week, um, up to 30 hours a week. I think that what we found from most mounts one part-time there usually looking for about 20, which tends to be the sweet spot for companies as well. Um, and uh, you know, there's, there's a few things about part-time jobs. One is uh, you know, finding them and giving clarity around the fact that that they're available for a certain number of hours a week. Uh, but also I think the big guess thing for moms in part-time roles is making sure that there isn't scope creep, um, keeping to that part-time job. You wanna make sure that you haven't just accepted a part-time job. That's really full-time part-time is a growing trend. I think that, you know, the gig economy is certainly real, um, more people who wanna stay contract, uh, because they get more freedom, they get more flexibility, they feel more like their own boss in part-time work. I find that a lot of times it's it's people who are, are looking to stay in part-time for a few years. Maybe till kids are older or maybe they're taking care of older parents or, you know, maybe their situation is such that they need part-time for a while.
Kim Rittberg (22:28):
I, Pam says there is a range of part-time jobs available.
Pam Cohen (22:32):
They really run the gamut. I mean, it can be anything from, you know, marketing work, um, where you are, you know, designing things for a company, branding, communications, um, certainly research, uh, you know, any kind of work that you working in an office environment where there's some collaboration, but some heads don't work, but even more traditional, um, roles have become a lot more flexible. You know, where we often heard that, like for example, you know, uh, FinTech jobs were always, um, in the office always, you know, very buttoned down nine to five job. Even those have become more flexible since the pandemic where, where corporations realize, Hey, people really can get their work done from home.
Kim Rittberg (23:18):
Once a mom has a flex job, how can she best set herself up for success?
Pam Cohen (23:22):
So communicating clearly about hours, but also expectations of what can be done in a certain amount of time. I think that's really, really good to go into during a job interview, for example, you know, I think I can get X amount done in, you know, this amount of time per week. Does that seem reasonable? Is that what you're looking for? Um, and talking about quality over quantity, depending on the role. Um, those things are really important. I mean, I think for everybody who goes into part-time positions, it's just really important. It's not that employers are deliberately trying to take advantage of somebody. It's just that a lot of times when somebody does good work, you know, you, you keep giving them more work and they ideas that you have to say, um, wait, there's only so much I can do, you know, and then going back to a manager to say, um, I can do this in, you know, 15 hours. What would you like me to, um, hold off on what would you, rather than I get done next week so that there is clearer communication around, Hey, we're coming up on 20 hours this week. I can continue this next week. And, um, when that happens, the managers get the idea of helping that employee to find balance as well.
Kim Rittberg (24:38):
And how can you find a part-time job for yourself?
Pam Cohen (24:42):
Well, there's quite a few. Um, you know, certainly the mom project platform lists a lot of part-time jobs. Um, you know, it's good to sign up with a platform like ours, get your skills out there. You can say how many hours a week you're looking for work. You can say what kind of work you're looking for. Uh, you know, and then there's many traditional channels that people go to, um, to look at for work other platforms as well. Um, I think the mom project is particularly well suited because we're, we're really look for those kind of positions for moms and what will suit them back once they're identified. I think it's, and you've gotten the interview. It's a matter of asking the right question to make sure is this really a part-time job? Is this, you know, really something that's reasonably uh part-time and you know, how long will this job be part-time for? Is it, is it permanent? Part-time if that's what they're looking for.
Kim Rittberg (25:45):
I like to end the show on a fun note. So I'm gonna leave you with a great story from Bethany bran Silva, she's an on-air parenting entertainment and lifestyle expert, and she's the former editor of parenting.com.
Bethany Braun Silva (25:58):
Hey, it's Bethany Braun Silva. I'm a parenting editor and writer. And over the last 10 years of being a mom and in this digital media world, I've gotten to interview you my fair share of celebrities. There was one interview in particular with Ali Landry, where I was interviewing from her, from my home and my then two year old was also home with me. He was down for a nap. Everything was perfect. The timing was just working out exactly as it should be, of course, until it wasn't. So then he woke up mean crying. At the same time, Ali's publicist was calling me. I ended up taking him out of the crib, thinking that would calm him down and then went into the bathroom to interview her. Uh, he didn't calm down. And in fact, he did the exact opposite. I locked myself in the bathroom and he's screaming bloody murder from the outside of the bathroom door.
Bethany Braun Silva (26:47):
I am, while I'm sitting in my bathtub, trying to strategically mute and unmute while asking Ali Landry questions, it goes without saying this interview never got published. It was kind of a disaster. I was sweating, you know, almost on the verge of tears. So I don't know if this is even funny, but it's definitely relatable. My kid was of course fine, but this is something that I still think of when I think back on probably what was the most, you know, challenging work from home moment that I ever faced. And it was definitely interviewing a celeb while my screaming toddler was bang, trying to bang down the door.
Kim Rittberg (27:29):
If you're still listening, that means you enjoyed this podcast. So please subscribe and tell your friends and also please leave a review. That is how you can say, I love the show and you know what? Don't stop at your friends, share it with any one. Even your enemies, enemies. You can find our show notes at my website, kimrittberg.com. It's also in the show notes. Don't forget to sign up for our newsletter and connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg don't forget to visit my website. We're gonna have lots of resources there at, kimrittberg.com/moms_exit_interview. This episode was produced by Henry street, media edited by John Haitz with producing and publicity assistance from Aliza Friedlander. See you next time.