EP. 4 / How to Find & Pursue Your Passion with Zanade Mann & Heather Chauvin
SHOW NOTES:
If you’re feeling stuck, lost, dealing with burnout or boredom, listen up! Meet Zanade Mann, who ditched her teaching job to launch the Black Women's Business Collective and be a digital marketer and says she would ‘never go back.’ She opens up about her finances, how having a child at 16 impacted her career path, how she balances work and kids with her husband in the military and how she went from crying after work to waking up every morning filled with ‘purpose.’ Plus leadership coach and cancer survivor Heather Chauvin has tips on how you can identify your passion and change your life in less than 10 minutes a day. Plus Ashley Hearon Smith shares her Real Mom Moment that involves her child making a very loud embarrassing announcement during a work call.
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Takeaways:
WHEN IT’S TIME FOR A CHANGE: Zanade Mann on how she knew it was time to quit her job teaching: “I was coming home crying.” Zanade says, “I decided to really just go all in with this digital marketing business, because it brings me freedom. I'm just really ecstatic that I am controlling my professional future right now. And my personal life has increased dramatically because I control my time.”
THE FINANCIAL SIDE: Zanade says, “I did not have the recommended six months in advance, you know, to cover expenses. And I didn't, the bills are okay. We had savings.”
THE BLACK WOMEN’S BUSINESS COLLECTIVE: Zanade says, “As a black woman business owner, I knew the ups and downs, the financial trajectory of attempting to reach a certain economic status in my life to be able to take care of my family and future generations. And because of that, I knew that I can't be the only one who looks like me that suffers from this. I said, you know, I'm just going to go and survey the community of black women and just see what happens.” “There is a huge funding gap between people of color, black women and investing and banking, all of that. So we are trying to really solve that.
The Black Women’s Business Collective has thousands of members and Zanade is looking for sponsors and partners for the Black Women’s Business Collective (so spread the word!)
HOW TO FIND YOUR PASSION: Heather Chauvin says: “I think everyone knows what lights them up. They just don't all give themselves permission to go for it… Really give yourself permission to ask yourself ‘What excites me’? And if you feel so far removed from that, then put 10 minutes a day on your calendar to go for a walk and leave your phone at home and just explore your mind and just ask ‘what excites me?’ And it almost becomes like a walking meditation. Like ‘What excites me? What is it?’ Try to think of who you were when you were younger? What lit you up? When did you get most excited? And then again, I call those breadcrumbs.Follow those tiny breadcrumbs. 10 minutes a day can literally change your life in a month if you're willing to ask yourself those uncomfortable questions.”
GET COMFORTABLE WITH SELLING: Heather says “Talk to those that you're interested in helping, see a problem and talk to those people and then learn how to sell, you need sales skills. Women don't like them or there's like a lot of negativity around it. It's love, it's service. You are being of service to somebody by hiding or letting your fear hold you back. All you're doing is not allowing that other person to grow and transform in front of you.
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EPISODE LINKS:
Zanade Mann Black Women’s Business Collective
Heather Chauvin Official Website
Ashley Hearon Smith’s Momtourage Podcast
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Zanade Mann (00:02):
ZaI love my freedom.
Kim Rittberg (00:03):
Imagine working for yourself while also feeling full of passion
Zanade Mann (00:08):
Every single morning, I wake up and I think about how can I bring more purpose to my life and to help others
Kim Rittberg (00:15):
You'll hear from Zanade mann, founder of the black women's business, collective on how she, she left her steady full-time teaching job to work for herself and help others. Plus leadership expert. Heather Chauvin joins us to help you figure out how to find your passion and how to make that passion more central to your professional life.
Heather Chauvin (00:36):
10 minutes a day can literally change your life in a month. If you're willing to ask yourself those uncomfortable questions,
Kim Rittberg (00:44):
Leave your lanyard and swipe card at the door. Welcome to mom's exit interview, a podcast for moms seeking fulfillment and contentment outside the traditional nine to five, whether you're considering taking the leap or you're already mid-air, this podcast is for you. You'll meet moms, poor consultants, entrepreneurs stay at home moms side hustles and part-time workers across various industries and levels. Plus every episode will have experts with tips so you can turn your inspiration into action. I'm Kim Rittberg. I was a Netflix executive and former head of video at us week, and I'm a mom of two. I quit the corporate world and I've never looked back, but I'm still on this journey. So join me. We don't need a boss to give us permission or a promotion to lead the lives we want.
Kim Rittberg (01:44):
Before we start, I am kindly asking you to subscribe to and review this podcast. It really does help. Now, there is a lot to dig in today with the native man. She has been named entrepreneur magazines, top 100 women of impact driving real change in business and culture for founding an amazing nonprofit. It called the black women's business. Collective Zita has three kids ages, 22, 16 and eight, and she has so many interesting aspects to her story. She has an aha moment where she knew she had to leave her job, a somewhat winding path to her current career situation as a digital marketer plus her incredible nonprofit. And then after Zenata, we'll hear from cancer survivor and coach Heather Chauvin on how to find your passion and direct your life toward that.
Zanade Mann (02:33):
Hi, my name is Zita man, and I am a digital marketing consultant with Zenata digital for over 15 years. And I'm also the founder of the black women's business collective, which is a network for black and Afro Latina women to give them, uh, tips and tricks on how to survive the business world. As a black woman business owner, I knew the ups and downs, and you probably heard the ups and downs of my career or, uh, financial trajectory of attempting to reach a economic status in my life, um, to be able to take care of my family and future generations. And because of that, I, I knew that I, I can't be the only one who looks like me, um, that suffers from this. And I said, you know, I'm just gonna go and survey the community of, of black women and just see what happens.
Zanade Mann (03:22):
And that, that excitedly turned into what I call BW BBC or the black women's business collective, which is just at this point, uh, a database of, um, over, over 3000 women at this point, uh, black women and Afro-Latino women who have entered their BI business just to, you know, to get some type of recognition and to be in a community. But really what it has turned into for year two for me, is a way to connect and engage with this community. Listen to them. They, if you don't know already, there is a huge funding gap between people of color, black women and investing and banking, all of that. So trying to really solve that. I
Kim Rittberg (04:02):
Have two, two follow-up questions. First of all, that's so amazing to be able to look at something, look at your own struggle and not just say, oh, that was hard, but say, okay, how can I make it better and easier for other people? Like what an awesome thing, how is it going? So now it's, it's been probably what're in year two or year three of the black women business collective.
Zanade Mann (04:21):
If the purpose is to build this social capital of, uh, engaged black and Afro-Latino women, it's, it's working every single morning, I wake up and I think about how can I bring more purpose to my life and to help others? And I think a lot of it has something to do with my upbringing and seeing a lot of the, of challenges, um, that people that look like me face. And I just wanna do more. The bigger goal is how do we get these business funded? How do we make them feel like they belong in their jobs? If they, if they choose to be a Sidepreneur plus, have a nine to five, how do we solve that? And my vision is, Hey Chrysler, you said that you, you, uh, support the black community. Well, I'm bringing B WBC to you, and I want you to put your money where your mouth is and you can pay for all that. We are bringing, we're bringing social capital, we're bringing programs, I've created dozens of programs. I need you to sponsor and partner with me.
Kim Rittberg (05:19):
So the next step is looking for companies to sponsor the black women's business collective don't they say, say it out loud and put it on your vision board or whatever I'm saying it out loud. Yes. So
Zanade Mann (05:30):
I love that. And you just summarize my entire 15 minutes feel in four words. Like, I,
Kim Rittberg (05:37):
I,
Zanade Mann (05:37):
That
Kim Rittberg (05:38):
This is very funny. So I, as you know, I do content strategy and I do on camera media coaching, and that involves elevator pitches. So sometimes I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm stealing words from someone and I'm not, I'm more just, I, I think in sound bites because I worked in news for 10 years, so someone will tell me this like incredible seven minute story. That's actually amazing. And I'm like, oh, so you're looking for sponsors for your black women's business. Collective amazing. Let's put that on our podcast and see if the money flows in
Zanade Mann (06:07):
Need to write that down.
Kim Rittberg (06:09):
So XNA, you have a very interesting path. It's not exactly a to B can you tell me a little bit about your background? Okay.
Zanade Mann (06:15):
Yes. So I was a teenage mother and my, my oldest daughter at 16. And at the time I decided, uh, that I needed to go to school and figure out how I'm gonna take care of his kids. So I got an accounting degree. Um, it was fun and it provided the necessary income. Um, but then I wasn't too happy about it. Um, it was boring for my personality and just, you know, wasn't very people focused, uh, career.
Kim Rittberg (06:45):
So then Sanita went back to school for PolySci. She considered going to law school, but didn't wanna take out hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. And then she got her master's in education.
Zanade Mann (06:57):
And so between my political science degree and my education, my masters of education, um, I started my own business, a digital marketing company, um, called the data digital that, uh, married the two of educating and strategy and people into one platform absolutely fell in love with it. Um, but it wasn't making the money that I, I needed it to make, to support my children, um, and all of my bills. So I did teach for about five years. Absolutely loved that too. This whole idea of teaching others, I hit a wall where it was just like, Hey, um, this is not going to work for me, but I was gonna go in there and change everything. And that didn't necessarily happen at a rate that I was happy with. Um, so I did leave and I decided to really just go all in with this digital marketing business, because it, it brings me freedom. I'm just like really ecstatic that I am controlling, uh, my professional future right now. And, and my personal life has in increased dramatically because I control my time.
Kim Rittberg (07:59):
I asked Zina what led her to leave her teaching job.
Zanade Mann (08:02):
It pushed me to the point where I needed, I left. I didn't necessarily feel, um, comfortable in my classroom at times. And no matter how much I said to the leadership, they didn't listen to me. Um, and to not say anything super negative about the system itself, because they're are some great, uh, schools and people, and I still work with many of them, but that one situation that I had was too much for me, I'm a softie in a way. Um, I can deal with certain things, but when it came to, you know, just seeing people who look like me to kids who look like me, and, and a lot of times they would get in trouble or someone got hit by something and it, it was hurting me. It really was. And I don't like, I mean, who likes violence, but I just didn't like any of that. Um, so I would just come home crying like, oh man, I can't, every day I'm seeing like, this is manes. And so that, that was basically it.
Kim Rittberg (08:55):
And you're seeing this and you also feel like you can't help. You're seeing these kids who don't have what they need and you don't feel like you can help them in the way that you would like to.
Zanade Mann (09:03):
Yeah. In a way that I thought, you know, my way, I thought of helping them, you know, if you see an eighth grader who can't read, even at a kindergarten level, my thing is pushing more things like testing on them is not gonna help out. Right. There's some deep issue. Like there's something going on. If it's not a, if it's not something psychological going on and it's a behavioral issue, like we need to focus on the whole child and not keep on tearing them down by this test that they, that we know they can't pass my trouble across the board. Was the administration at the school base levels in multiple schools that I've seen. That's just like, wow, did they give up too? I can't work and see this every day. And when I try to do something or do something, it's a pushback, it's a, you know, that's how it's gonna be. And there's a lot of issues going on in certain communities with public education. There's just so much going on. And I don't know the answer, but something has to be done in, in public education. You know? So
Kim Rittberg (10:03):
A lot of people rightfully so are afraid to launch their own business or switch from full-time to freelance because of the fear on how that will impact their income. So I asked Zanade about that. Can I get needy grit about your digital marketing business?
Zanade Mann (10:19):
I love nitty gritty income. Are you
Kim Rittberg (10:21):
Creating an income income that you're, that you're happy with, that that you know, is similar to, or more than, or less than the past?
Zanade Mann (10:27):
So I will say I am not at zero, which is very exciting. Um, I, at this point I'm not at zero, but I am not at a financial place where I want to be. I for this year, I am very excited about sourcing new clients and it is a full-time job. I think it's even more than a full-time job because I do, I work after hours, I burn the midnight oil. I have a lawy goal to get six new clients, which for many, may not be a lot, but for what I, I charge and for what it is and what they get, the value that they get and the impact I bring, um, six clients would bring me to a place where I would be, I, I would definitely be, um, over the top, which is, which is what I, which is what I want part
Kim Rittberg (11:11):
Of these decisions, depend on family situations and structure and support. And of course we have the unpaid domestic labor of taking care of kids. How was that? And how is that now for you?
Zanade Mann (11:22):
So I was a single mom until about, I guess you can say 10 years ago sharing, uh, part of this, uh, unpaid labor, right? Um, that, that part is a stressor in my personal life, because there is no BA there, there is not a healthy balance. The finding financially. Yes. Right. That's, that's not a, that's not the challenge. Um, I don't get paid for taking care of my kids. Like this is, you know, unpaid labor. The share of things is still very uneven in my household, mainly because my husband's out the house he's in the military. So he has his things going on. And when he comes home, it's like, take out the garbage, maybe walk the dog, but all of the stuff in between, I'm still, you know, doing, but thankfully my kids are a little bit older. They, they help out a lot when they were much younger as a single mom, it was really, really, uh, difficult to do all of that alone. But at this, you know, we're, we're not at 50 50, but maybe 70 30. And I I'll take that for now.
Kim Rittberg (12:21):
What are, uh, how did you prepare financially to make the change?
Zanade Mann (12:25):
I, I document everything as far as my processes with what I do at work, what I do with money. So super are planned out in that way that I kind of just projected that with my current clientele and with, you know, the money that I had coming in. I still had a few checks coming after I decided to leave. It was, Hey, you know, telling my husband, Hey, I, I can't do this anymore. I was coming home crying. That's how it got to that point where I would literally, I was so shake and by even getting up and going to work, that it was bad for my health. So I, I said, you know what, um, rake, I think it's time for me to go. So my husband naturally is in the military. He loves his, you know, nine to five and his really rigid life. Um, so for me to say, I'm going to follow my passions and be happy, joyful, and see, my kids was, you know, a total disaster for him financially in his mind. I did not have the recommended six months in advance, you know, to cover expenses. And I didn't, the bills are okay. You know, as I said, my husband's really good. We had savings. What
Kim Rittberg (13:30):
Would you tell yourself in your twenties? What would you tell your 20 something self
Zanade Mann (13:34):
Calm down? You know, like everything is gonna work itself out. Like it will, you know, as long as you wake up, you, you know, you're breathing. It just, just really calm down and you don't need to chase. And that leads into the whole slowing down thing. I just, I never felt comfortable enough to slow down. If I told my 20 year old self that, Hey, it real, all doesn't matter because you're, you're doing your best. You're doing the best that you can. And no matter how much you think you're, you're moving faster, you're actually slowing down somewhere, some area in your life. Um, and you just need to accept it. Like this is just life and just do what you can.
Kim Rittberg (14:10):
Yeah. A friend of mine who is a therapist, we were much younger and I was just shredding water going in, doing my job and leaving. And I said, you know, I don't really feel like I'm doing that. She said, at that point I was building my relationship with my husband. She's like, not every year is a point of growth for everything in your life. Some years you're growing your relationship. And some years you're super charging your business or other things and, or your health. I was like, I, I had never thought of it like that. Cause I feel like I used to feel like I had to a hundred miles per hour on everything in my life at all times. And, um, I don't know for me, I think that I've just been able to have a little more balance at this stage of my life. But I too, my default is not relaxed. My default is go, um, right. I had a question that's brilliant.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Actually, what your therapist friends said, that's really brilliant.
Kim Rittberg (15:01):
Can you fill in the sentence before? My life was blank? And now my life is
Zanade Mann (15:07):
Yeah. Before my life felt empty. And now I feel filled.
Kim Rittberg (15:21):
You can find the black women's business collective allinmybusiness.com and find Zanade Mann on Instagram slash Sonata, as usual, all link out else will be on the show notes. I loved hearing Zana's passion and seeing what she's building. It led me to think, what are you meant to be doing? How can you find your passion? What lights you up next? Heather Chauvin has tips on how to find your passion and direct your life towards that. Heather Chauvin was diagnosed with cancer at age 27. After having her three sons, Heather realized she had spent too much of her life trying to be a quote unquote, good mom. And she started making shifts in her life. Heather was a social worker, and now she's a leadership coach and is here to help you unlock passion.
Heather Chauvin (16:17):
Hey, I'm Heather Chauvin, I'm the author of dying to be a good mother and podcast host of emotionally uncomfortable. Um, and I support women in helping them develop the habit of feeling alive.
Kim Rittberg (16:31):
Heather had a really interesting way of identifying your true desires or passion to help guide you.
Heather Chauvin (16:38):
I talk a lot about desire. And one of my favorite things that I talk about is this journal prompt that I do for myself when it says, wouldn't it be nice if I do it a lot, I've been using this for, because I truly believe it's not about what's your goals. What's your, you know, next year goals. What's your word of the year. It's like, wouldn't it be nice if and whatever you say after that, I believe is your inner desire. And when you are listening to your inner desire, that's where you like, like you come alive. You're like, yes, I'm aligned. I feel it's clicking. Um, and I believe that some of us, like I remember before my friend used to be like, oh my gosh, you drive me nuts. Cause I always had that like, go, go, go mentality. But I had to learn to hold boundaries and I had to learn to follow how I want, wanted to feel first, because then I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing. And it's this is so weird, Kim, you you're maybe like, wow, your next level. I see humans as breeds of like, like I love dogs.
Heather Chauvin (17:50):
So you think of like this lazy dog and then you think of like a really active hyper dog. I see humans like that too.
Kim Rittberg (17:59):
I wanna say I'm a spaniel. I wanna just go out there and say it. Okay. Me Ning at your heels until I get what I want. I'm super friendly. But I, I, I will walk with you the whole
Heather Chauvin (18:08):
That's hilarious. People tell me I'm like a pit bull, but then, but like, I I'm, like I can see through your BS so clearly, and I will lovingly call you out on it. But at the same, I can like push you. I can lean off. But yeah, I will just like lovingly say one thing and you're like, damn it. She can see, see me. She can see me. Um, but yeah, I think that's like, our personalities are like that too. And when we really honor what we want and desire and we go after it, this is just it's magic. It's, it's literal magic. You come to life, you have more energy and you can get more done.
Kim Rittberg (18:45):
So we're doing a survey for the podcast where people send in questions and I'd love if you could a answer. Some of them, um, a, a few of the questions were around like finding how to shift, right? So I'm a, this like, I'm, I'm a psychotherapist. Like what can I do besides work for my company? Or I'm an educator? Like where else to go? I think there's, there are a lot of moms trying to figure out like you have like what, what else is out there for me with my skillset?
Heather Chauvin (19:14):
Yeah. I think oftentimes what people do is they're looking for the thing, like they're looking for the perfect job description or like the perfect business in a box, or like how to start that side hustle or whatever it is. And what I always say to people is talk to those that you're interested in helping, like see a problem and talk to those people and then learn how to sell sales skills. Women don't like them, or there's like a lot of negativity around it. It's love it's service. You are being of service to somebody by hiding or letting your fear like hold you back. All you're doing is not allowing that other person to grow and transform in front of you. If you know that you have something inside of you, that can make a big impact in the world, all you have to do is talk to one person and charge them a dollar, charge them a hundred dollars.
Heather Chauvin (20:10):
If you're absolutely terrifi fine or not terrifying, terrified. I often see when people go through like an employee mindset, even if they make six multi six, seven figures, once you start selling yourself, it's a completely different ballgame. And it's really just about who, who can I help out there have that conversation with them and say, I can help you. And it's really, really important that you start charging for it because I'm also a big fan of equal exchange of energy. And so if somebody else is not energetically committed, they're not gonna do the work. So once you start, you know, having those conversations, get one person to say yes, then you start to get like this emotional buy-in for yourself. And you're like, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next? Um, but yeah, it's like the world needs you. You just have to show up.
Kim Rittberg (21:01):
I love your take on the applying. What you feel is gonna help someone else. Because I do actually, I do a lot of media training in my work and people really have a lot of struggles with pitching selling and I try to reframe it to them as well. In theory, in theory, in practice, you're an expert in this and you're helping someone, right? If you're a lawyer you're helping through a contract, dispute, a divorce, a custody, whatever it is, um, no matter your industry. So if you adjust your mindset and, and go with that service attitude, I like how you framed it as like love and service. I think it's easier to work from a place that's more naturally comfortable as humans. I actually I'm it actually hands down and I was always a good salesperson. I had my own jewelry company. I was good at selling my own jewelry, cuz I was really passionate about it. Yeah. Doing sales for a company would've given me the creeps and I just, it doesn't feel natural to me. So I think that I think your advice of really thinking how you can help someone else is just, I think that really speaks to people's interior motives and, and the discomfort they feel when they feel they're pushing, you know, and unlocking that you're not pushing, it's a partnership. What are your tips for someone who's looking to figure out what is my passion?
Heather Chauvin (22:22):
Mm. I think everyone knows what lights them up. They just don't all give themselves permission to go for it. It's one thing to say, I don't know what I'm passionate about, but if you said, is it that I don't know what I'm passionate about or that I haven't actually given myself permission to cultivate that passion or energy. I also find that passion call it passion, call it purpose, call it, desire, whatever you want. Creativity. It's see it is messy. And when you are the type a box checker, planner, perfectionist like that part of you that you cannot put words to or box check, and it's a feeling it's a whole other skill set. And so I always just say, really give yourself permit to ask yourself what excites me, like what excites me. And if you feel so far removed from that, then put 10 minutes a day on your calendar to go for a walk and leave your phone at home and just explore your mind and just what excites me. And it almost becomes like a walking meditation. Like what excites me? What is it try to think of who you were when you were younger? What lit you up? When did you get most excited? And then again, I call those breadcrumbs. So I'm always like follow those tiny breadcrumbs. Um, but 10 minutes a day can like literally change your life in a month. If you're willing to ask yourself those uncomfortable questions.
Kim Rittberg (23:50):
So tell me a little bit about your company and what you do.
Heather Chauvin (23:53):
I talk to women a lot about dev like habit development and developing the habit of feeling alive and aligned. And so it's really about verse engineering, how you wanna feel like bringing essence and life back into yourself. So you have the goals. I truly believe that we all know what we want. We either want to improve our relationship with our partner, our children, ourselves, somebody else, but that DISE or that contrast that we're experiencing in our life, like the lack mindset that we have, or we're like, I wanna grow my business or whatever that is. I wanna take that leap. It's about how do we develop those courage muscles to feel really, really aligned and go after what we want. So it's all about emotional intelligence, learning how to master those skills while you're going after what you want. Um, know having a therapy background. I'm, I'm a huge fan of talk therapy and I'm a huge fan of like rehashing what's happened in the past. But I truly believe that if you give yourself permission to focus on what you want, get the clarity on that and go for it. Everything that's stopping you is gonna pop up for you. You figure out how to clear it along the way
Kim Rittberg (25:16):
Heather's information will be in the show notes. And we'll do a deep dive on her inspirational and fascinating personal story. In an upcoming episode, I like to end the show on something fun. So here is a very embarrassing parenting story from Ashley here in Smith of the mom Tage podcast, which is absolutely hilarious.
Ashley Hearon Smith (25:36):
Mine is definitely the amount of times we've been recording specifically with a guest where my son decides it's the perfect time to take a [inaudible] and screams mama it's happened so many times, mama, I need you to wipe my butt. And I'm just like, dude, I am in an interview. And then I literally have to talk to whoever we're interviewing and say, I'm so sorry, my kid just pooped and I need to wipe his butt. And there have been times where I've had to take the computer with me and like wipe his butt. What? Like it's yeah, yeah.
Kim Rittberg (26:05):
Oh crap. Literally I, that was Ashley from the mom Tage podcast. And you can listen to mom Tage, wherever you get your podcasts.
Kim Rittberg (26:20):
If you're still listening, that means you enjoyed this podcast. So please subscribe and tell your friends and also please leave a review. That is how you can say, I love this show and you know what? Don't stop at your friends. Share it with anyone, even your enemies fr enemies. You can find our show notes at my website, www.kimrittberg.com. It's also in the show notes. Don't forget to sign up for our newsletter and connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Kim Rittberg. Don't forget to visit my website. We're gonna have lots of resources there www.kimrittberg.com. This episode was produced by Henry street, media edited by John Haitz with producing and publicity assistance from a free Lander. See you next time.